Spirit Lake withdraws support for logo

[sioux goo]

be careful what you wish for...didnt i already say that?

what about the native american tribes that use the nickname and no opposition from activists about that???

[PCM]

If the University had done what it had promised to do (in addition to ending the sale of Siouxper Dogs and HSioux0 for heaven's sake), maybe they wouldn't be in the place they are today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Knowing what I know, I very much doubt it.

[HockeyMom]

Apparently a couple of broken promises on the part of UND following the last vote played a part (see Skip Longie's quote).

There are two sides to every story.

[HockeyMom]

what about the native american tribes that  use the nickname and no  opposition from activists about that???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That falls under the "do as I say, not as I do" exemption.

[IowaBison]

There are two sides to every story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the hell does that mean in this context?

What on earth didn't the tribe deliver?

[ScottM]

I would hope some people should be able to put there personal differences aside and look at the big picture, act like adults, and do what is best for the city. Bringing a Casino to town would probably be greater for UND than any nickname.

Doubtful. People have very long memories, and this a very upfront issue that would only be magnified by any lingering hostility over this issue.

Then again, many of the locals can work in the pawn shops, payday lenders and consumer finance shops that follow casinos. "You need another $300 because you feel lucky? Sure, no problem. Just initial where it says 30% APR. See you next week." This is good for my industry, as we do set up near casinos, especially Indian-run shops which attract the "best" prospects, and the new bankruptcy provisions going into effect in October will only make it more cash-rich.

[HockeyMom]

What the hell does that mean in this context?

What on earth didn't the tribe deliver?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I meant what is UND's viewpoint on whether or not they did the things that they said they were going to do.

[mksioux]

I think an assumption is being made the UND didn't do what the resolution requested. Rather than quoting Longie, please quote the exact language in the resolution that UND didn't do. This is an honest question, because I don't see any obligations of UND other than a "zero tolerance" policy toward racist behavior (which UND has done), "to begin the process" of a "cultural awareness course" (which is quite subjective).

Is there some other "agreement" I'm not aware of. Again, an honest question.

[Eskimos]

Did you guys honestly expect anything else from IowaBison and tony??

The vocal minority is dominating an issue once again.

[ScottM]

I would guess a copy of the original resolution which was sent with the Appeal would spell out any "conditions" which seem to have only recently manifested themselves. Then again, there may be a credibility issue(s) from the SL folks, and their handlers in the same regard.

[southpaw]

The tribe never passed a resolution yesterday. It was an meeting by tribe members to discuss the issue. A vote is expected on Friday. The AP got their information wrong, the Forum reported it wrong. UND officials do not have a response, because nothing has been done. Also, next Tuesday there will be a meeting amongst tribal leaders to discuss the nickname. You can trust my sources, they are from the top.

[HockeyMom]

Thanks, Mory.

[iramurphy]

You know in the grand scheme of things, riding in the back of a bus probably wasn't that big of deal. After all, black folks had lots of other more pressing things to worry about - poverty and illiteracy for example. Now, when blacks first started whining (to re-use Fight Sioux supporter's verb of choice) about that, I'm sure that upstanding white folks muttered about retribution and whatnot. I'm sure they claimed that no good black person they knew cared about riding in the back of the bus. I'm sure there were many who preferred it that way. Heck, I bet it was a bunch of pointy-headed liberals from Yankee-land causing problems. I bet some people who didn't want to change the status quo even said that many of their best friends were black people and that they didn't personally know any black people who wanted to make waves. I mean, if riding in the back of the bus was such a big deal, why weren't black people complaining about it decades before they did?

Maybe, just maybe, the Sioux tribal councils view this as a symbolic deal. Maybe they viewed the whole "old boys network" that worked behind the scenes with the Board of Higher Ed to block any changes to the precious nickname as a slap in the face, considering that finally UND had looked like they were interested in their input.

There is a lot of anger - and I'd even go so far to say hate - from some folks on this issue. If you want to come up with a lasting solution, it's time for UND to go to the Sioux tribes and treat them with some respect and actually listen to them rather then just calling them names.

Sometimes it's hard to listen to anybody else when you've gotten all worked up. Maybe it's time that UND folks step back, take a breath, and start reaching out to the Sioux tribes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To compare the racism of the South with racism against Native Americans has some validity. To compare either, to the use of the Fighting Sioux name by UND is an insult to anyone who has had to face the real issues of racism. Stick to the subject at hand. I don't think anyone has been hanged because of the Fighting Sioux name. You may want it changed and I respect that difference of opinion. but to compare it to the racism of the South (with the KKK), get real.

[Diggler]

So does this mean GK wasn't at the meeting or he would have known this? Shocking!

[Cratter]

In theory, I have no problem with denying a casino to a tribe who has opposed the nickname. Face it, Turtle Mountain needs the casino much more than Grand Forks does. Why should we do them any favors? Actions have consequences. That is the reality of the "adult" world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, realistically the Casino will probably never be built. The city of Grand Forks and UND are a seperate entity. UND is huge for the city but it is not the only thing. Maybe UND has to much pull in Grand Forks, and at certain times it hinders GF's growth in certain aspects.

A minor example is every year Grand Forks gives money to UND for recruitement etc, but a couple years ago I believe UND wanted more (or just the same), and GF was like "thats ok you guys seem to be doing pretty good already, maybe that money can go to lower taxes or repair roads." A larger Grand Forks would mean a larger enrollment, more fans at football, hockey, and basketball games for UND.

BTW, my mom works at UND.

[ESPNInsider]

I can't beleive that you guys think GF should deny a casino simply because of the nickname. GROW UP! The casino would be great for GF, sure it is needed more by the tribe, but come on.

I highly doubt that this reason (obviously never public) would come up in even the slightest instance.

[Cratter]

The tribe never passed a resolution yesterday.  It was an meeting by tribe members to discuss the issue.  A vote is expected on Friday.  The AP got their information wrong, the Forum reported it wrong.  UND officials do not have a response, because nothing has been done.  Also, next Tuesday there will be a meeting amongst tribal leaders to discuss the nickname.  You can trust my sources, they are from the top.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your sources? The GF Herald clearly states:

The matter now will go before Spirit Lake's tribal council for its formal adoption Friday.

[PCM]

Many seem to assume that most citizens of Grand Forks want a casino in their community. I'm not convinced that this is true, reagardless of what happens with the Sioux name and logo.

[mksioux]

I can't beleive that you guys think GF should deny a casino simply because of the nickname.  GROW UP!  The casino would be great for GF, sure it is needed more by the tribe, but come on. 

I highly doubt that this reason (obviously never public) would come up in even the slightest instance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's debatable whether a casino would be good for GF. There are valid points on both sides of the issue. The council is lukewarm about it. The public is lukewarm about it. All things being equal, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that an issue very important to many people in GF wouldn't tip it one way or another.

But, like I said, it's a moot point because both tribes that would be most impacted by a casino -- one postively, one negatively -- both oppose the nickname (or will come Friday).

And thanks for the encouragement. I'll do my best to GROW UP in the coming years.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Many seem to assume that most citizens of Grand Forks want a casino in their community. I'm not convinced that this is true, reagardless of what happens with the Sioux name and logo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with your post PCM. Most of the people I have talked to about it are opposed to the idea.

[PCM]

But, like I said, it's a moot point because both tribes that would be most impacted by a casino -- one postively, one negatively -- both oppose the nickname (or will come Friday).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I remember correctly, all the other tribes in the state came out with a statement saying that giving the Turtle Mountain tribe a casino in Grand Forks would give it an unfair advantage.

[mksioux]

I totally agree with your post PCM. Most of the people I have talked to about it are opposed to the idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even more reason for the council/mayor not to spend political capital on a tribe that has condemned something that perhaps some of the city's elected officials hold dear.

[southpaw]

[LFSPRO]

Hopefully the Spirit Lake tribe will cave to the political pressure and withdraw any support of the Fighting Sioux nickname. Once that is done, Indians (not Native Americans, since anyone born in America is a native American) will no longer have any influence on the UND nickname issue.

UND can then move forward with yesterday's NCAA appeal. With the tribe support issue taken out of the appeal process the NCAA's decision will stand on it's own merits.

When the appeal is granted, we can put this issue behind us once and for all!

[Diggler]

When the appeal is granted, we can put this issue behind us once and for all!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're dreaming if you think that. Once the exemption is granted, UND should work with the tribes to figure something out. It should be out in the public too, not behind the scenes stuff or we'll just have the same problems occurring over and over again like they are currently.