Spirit Lake withdraws support for logo

[GrahamKracker]

[Diggler]

It is nice how you can throw out the words nazi, rabbit choker and hang around the fort indians, but at the same time complain about people not honoring you. It's also funny that you call a poster HockeyMomwhoteachesherChildrenRACISM, when she has said nothing racist in this discussion as opposed to you and the many terms you have used to insult people who don't agree with you.

It is becoming more obvious every day that you don't really care about the name as much as you care about trying to push people's buttons on this issue. Sure you want the name changed, but only so you can dance in your own personal victory and taunt people who don't agree with you.

[PCM]

[You're proud of less than 4% when the population of Natives in this state is well over 7%......wow, go figure, and of that 4%, I would safely say that half of the Natives are not from this region, and less than half of the remainder is Sioux, go figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the 2000 census, North Dakota's American Indian population is just under 5 percent.

Are you saying that only Sioux from North Dakota count?

[GrahamKracker]

Doesn't that really depend upon your personal opinion of gambling. I have nothing against a casino in grand forks, but if a tribe is allowed to build a casino off the reservation, why can't a private company or business just open up a casino anyplace it wants?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh oh, I think you have to pick up a book to find that answer, most likely something w/o pictures...lol, find information about treaties, tribal governments, and just history in general, then I bet you'd find your answers

[Diggler]

Why don't you answer the question instead of being so smug about it?

[PCM]

Do you honestly believe that this issue will EVER go away until the name is retired?  Even if the NCAA didn't side w/ us, do you think we will stop in our quest to retire this name?  Fat chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for proving the point I tried to make earlier. At this time, there is no reason to further discuss this issue or attempt reach some sort of compromise. GrahamKracker and his friends, who represent a minority of a minority, have only one goal, and that's to rid UND of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

[BigGame]

Uh oh, I think you have to pick up a book to find that answer, most likely something w/o pictures...lol, find information about treaties, tribal governments, and just history in general, then I bet you'd find your answers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not getting your point. If one group is allowed to do something, wouldn't it be equal and fair that everyone can do the same thing. Isn't that part of the equality and tolerance you

[BigGame]

Why don't you answer the question instead of being so smug about it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He has no real answers, at least he doesn't give any.

[GrahamKracker]

Kracker,

Your recent postings show evidence of your ignorance and racism. I could care less if UND changes the name to the Fighting Irish or leaves it the Fighting Sioux. Your crude remarks about Kuppy go beyond what a self proclaimed tough guy like yourself should be doing. I have never been a big Kupchella fan but to call him names on a board like this shows what you are made of and what you lack. Your previous remarks about the Chippewa artist, Bennet Brien, being a "rabbit choker" is a good example of your racist attitude and inability to process thoughts that might exist other than your own. Your thinly veiled threats to those who disagree with you should they dare come over to the NA cultural center show your propensity for violence (especially if you have the advantage).

If you want the name changed, you and the tribal leaders step up and address the true issues of what your elders and ancestors did years ago. They gave UND permission to use the name. You may disagree with their decision, but to simply ignore that fact is why many people will be angry. If you and the tribal leaders wish it changed, then offer to participate in the change process and assume some of the substantial cost required to make the change. Stop the whining about how you think the UND issue is going to confuse your children about their heritage and raise them with enough pride in their culture to know the difference between racism and an athletic team name that their ancestors thought was a good idea. Raise those kids with a Mom and Dad who are commited to the family and getting those kids a good education. Be an example of what an adult should be so your kids have someone to look up to other than Russell Means, the Bellecourts, Banks etc. If you think this type of reference to Native Americans with athletic teams is derogatory, then change the reservation school names and logos first to show you really are affected and hurt by the use of these names. Quit blaming every wrongdoing and tough break you get in life on others and step up to the plate with something positive and productive. Be grateful to those people both NA and other cultures who have made the sacrifices necessary for you to get an education and increase your chance of success.

You may find that, if in fact, the Native American people are no longer willing to understand our culture and the diversity inherent in our culture, that we will no longer interact with your culture the same. Many will stop going to NA casinos and buying NA products. People like me may stop tutoring NA kids or supporting Native American language progams in our schools. Not because of the Fighting Sioux issue, but because of the hateful and racist way you and others interact with our culture. Not because of any NCAA verdict or ruling but because of the insulting way these tribal leaders and officials have treated our state and University. If in fact these tribal leaders are speaking for the majority of NA, many people will simply avoid the reservations when we can. How is that gong to help your kids? We already face a crisis in the Middle East because of the hate taught children toward those who are different.

You have done your best to convince me and others that we are not welcome to interact with your culture unless it is on your terms and in your time. That is not a healthy relationship in any culture. Does this mean you no longer want us to spend money in your casinos and on the NA products? Do we need to lobby our state officials to allow all of our citizens to be able to open and operate cosinos instead of only the Native Americans? Those are only a couple of the questions I would have asked the group gathered at Spirit Lake gathering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, who's the racist here, I didn't even think of dragging our children into this, but you obviously have. As for KupCake, I know him personally, and I can care less how he feels for me. AGAIN, DO YOUR HISTORY. Never once did our tribal leaders give UND the right to use this name. And even if a Tribe did, does that make it okay for the entire Sioux Nation? That would be like ND making a pact with France for an issue that would affect the entire USA.

You know, don't go to the casinos. I don't. Don't buy NA products, I don't (I make all my stuff). Don't even look at NA's, especially with your attitude. We don't need your help (we'll just take your parent's and your grandparents $$$$)....ha...that was pretty funny....

I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to discuss this name, but it has become attack after attack, and now that I bite back, I'm the racist. That's fine, if fighting for equality for my people makes me a racist, I'm a damn racist.

[BigGame]

Never once did our tribal leaders give UND the right to use this name. And even if a Tribe did, does that make it okay for the entire Sioux Nation

Nope, as we have read many times, only your opinion counts.

[Diggler]

Since when is being questioned equate to being attacked? I must have missed the memo on that. What makes you racist is the words you use to purposely insult others, not your views on the nickname.

[BigGame]

I came here to discuss this name

This is clearly untrue!

but it has become attack after attack, and now that I bite back, I'm the racist. That's fine, if fighting for equality for my people makes me a racist, I'm a damn racist

Most people just want you to answer the questions they have, but when you don't have an answer you either ignore them or attack them. At that is why everyone on this board loves and respects your views and opinions.

[GrahamKracker]

No, the "issue" is that some of these people want to have it both ways. They say they don't call themselves "Sioux", but they represent themselves as such by official means, and then decry the use of a name they say they don't use because their little feelings are all hurt. If it hurts so damn bad, don't do it. Cripes, it's a f**kin' wonder their forebears didn't starve to death after getting pushed out of the woods with that type of self-pity. Red Cloud must be spinning in embarrassment.

Find a name, stick with it across the board and quit whining about a name that you say doesn't represent you. Good grief, if this argument was presented to a judge, they'd get thrown out on their ears. Frankly, the name "Sioux" is so far out in the public domain, you can probably use it for anything, as witnessed by the number of hits on the USPTO website.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't even know who Red Cloud was. Just because you finally have to see the "truth" you have to start attacking. Keep attacking. We can take it. It will take more than your attacks to make us go away. Hetche to.

[PCM]

That's fine, if fighting for equality for my people makes me a racist,

Edited September 1, 2005 by PCM

[Diggler]

Should the NCAA give UND an exemption and UND then proceed to reach a compromise with all the tribes, which I believe they should attempt to do, would you respect that compromise or would you continue to protest the name?

[crosby_87]

[BringDeanBack]

Coming from someone who has worked on the reservations of Nodak and Minnesota, here are my two cents. Any resolutions by tribal councils are not worth the paper they are written on. Tribal governments are the most corrupt governments that I have ever seen. They embezzle money which keeps it from going to the people in the tribe that really need it. Tribal council members are continually getting voted in and then recalled the next week. It is like a game of musical chairs. Heck, you can be a Chief Prosecutor on reservations without even having a law degree.

The Sioux nickname is not the reason that every new building on the reservation has it's windows broken within the first week. The name doesn't force alcohol down native americans throats. The name does not cause people to be unemployed.

[HockeyMom]

The truth hurts, HockeyMomwhoteachesherChildrenRACISM....lol, you know you I don't remember anything "nice" coming from your way, but then again, this is GF, I'm used to that...lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like how you call me a name and then say I'm not nice.

I'm not from Grand Forks, and if you have such distain for Grand Forks, leave. No one is asking you to stay.

You're not the first, or the only person on this planet that's been discriminated against, so quit acting like you are. I had the luck of landing the job of my dreams when I graduated from the University of North Dakota. I was discriminated against at that job, based on something that I could not control. And after five years it wasn't fun, and eventually I decided that I had enough, it wasn't worth it anymore.

I could have bitched and moaned and pointed fingers and blamed everyone. I could have let my hatred and anger ruin the rest of my life. But I didn't. I put that energy into something positive. I started my own business, worked hard to get it up and running, and it's starting to turn it into a very profitable business. I have really started to make a name for myself.

Think about all the positive things you might be able to accomplish if you weren't blaming everyone else for the problems in your life 24/7.

People who bitch and moan and let things ruin their lives don't live very long. Refocus your energy and do something that will actually make a difference in someone's life.

[HockeyMom]

It's also funny that you call a poster HockeyMomwhoteachesherChildrenRACISM, when she has said nothing racist in this discussion as opposed to you and the many terms you have used to insult people who don't agree with you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Diggler.

*remembers the number on your jersey and doesn't check you into the boards later*

[Diggler]

People who bitch and moan and let things ruin their lives don't live very long.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

$#*@. I'm totally screwed! Totally!

[iramurphy]

Wow, who's the racist here, I didn't even think of dragging our children into this, but you obviously have. As for KupCake, I know him personally, and I can care less how he feels for me. AGAIN, DO YOUR HISTORY. Never once did our tribal leaders give UND the right to use this name. And even if a Tribe did, does that make it okay for the entire Sioux Nation? That would be like ND making a pact with France for an issue that would affect the entire USA.

You know, don't go to the casinos. I don't. Don't buy NA products, I don't (I make all my stuff). Don't even look at NA's, especially with your attitude. We don't need your help (we'll just take your parent's and your grandparents $$$$)....ha...that was pretty funny....

I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to discuss this name, but it has become attack after attack, and now that I bite back, I'm the racist. That's fine, if fighting for equality for my people makes me a racist, I'm a damn racist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are the racist here Kracker. You are the one who has called an artist a "rabbit choker" because he is Chippewa. You are the one who frequently has made derogatory remarks about others because of their heritage. You are the one who makes reference to who the "real Sioux" or the "hang around the Fort" Indians are. You have made insulting remarks to the Hispanic American poster. My comments are not based on on your race but your ignorance. Your ignorant remarks are what has earned you the distain of most of the posters here. That is likely what causes your sufferings, not your American Indian heritage but because you act like such a jerk. When you first posted, a number of people on this board wished to understand something that most of us don't. You had an opportunity for an intelligent discourse and to could have shared the feelings of those who oppose the name. You never answered most of the questions asked and you frequently insulted anyone who didn't understand or agree with your racist rantings.

No, I didn't bring children into the issue, that was done previously by the opponents of the name who continually talk about the shame their children have when they see the Fighting Sioux logo and name used with UND ahtletic teams. They were brought into the issue by the picketers who drag their children wherever they go. Read some of Doreen Yellowbird's columns about the remarks Native American children suffer from because of the Fighting Sioux name. I don't expect you to remember that because I think that would be beyond your capability. You are too filled with hate to have room in your head for other thoughts.

Your people already got some of my family's money. My Mom helped Native American kids with their reading skills and my Dad employed Native Americans in the 1960's from the Job Corps training program. He took them groceries when they didn't have enough to feed the kids because there was no father around and the relatives who overpopulated the apartment used the money from their jobs to drink. They did it because when they were young, someone helped them. They did it because someone had a need, not because they were Native American. They saw people as human beings not Native Americans. You didn't and couldn't take their money. It was given willingly.

You seem to be too damn dumb to see how many people on this board care about the real issues facing your people and many of the people on this board are in a position to help others including Native Americans. Your rantings won't keep people from helping, but the insults from the Tribal leaders and other Native American leaders will affect how people feel and how they will act. I too have met President Kupchella and I doubt he is losing sleep over what you or any of us think of him. You seem to get some perverse pleasure in being able to insult him.

You claim "never once did your tribal leaders give UND permission to use the name". In the next sentence you waffle and say "even if they did, does that make it OK for an entire Sioux Nation". Well Kracker, it did at that time. What happened to the respect for your elders? You have never once answered that. Without their permission this never would have occured.

You are too wrapped up in this issue of beating ol' whitey that you won't even entertain the thought of using the issue as a bridge between cultures. Some day you can sit with your grandkids and say "I spent a lot of time insulting those F---ing white guys, while some other white guys (the NCAA) got the name changed for us". Your hatred seems to have blinded you to opportunities.

You could be able to sit and say "kids these are the programs that Grandpa helped bring to the reservation to expand our technology and improve our education and our economy. Good choice Kracker, what a legacy you have chosen for yourself. You didn't "bite back" you didn't do much of anything but entertain most of us with your little bark. You are not fighting for equality, you are whining about a logo that some of your elders said was OK for UND to use. There is a big difference.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Look around campus, even w/ the influence of the Dead nazi-lover,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Time to click the ignore button.

[teamsioux]

cratter.....it will without a doubt hurt those gambling places...any other opinions??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trust me, I have some knowledge about this as I have worked within the local industry at different levels for many years. It would create a huge void locally for these charities. Sure they wouldn't lose someone who wanted to play a "couple" hands of bj. But most/all bigger gamblers would go to a casino.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

Nice post IraMurphy. Someone had to call GK out and you did so with force, logic, and respect. Three things that we have not much seen from him or her.

[IowaBison]