Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Chewey]

Well I can tell you one thing for sure, this issue won't be settled on this board. I'm just wondering something though. Most people on here are willing to accept the outcome of the court case, even if the decision is not favorable to them (by them I mean most SIOUX fans.) Are you gothmog willing to accept the outcome, or if you don't "get your way" are you going to continue the senseless pusuit of a perfect PC fuzzy bunnies and rainbows and everyone feels so good world?

That would make too much sense and would be too rational of a course. Of course not. What else would the PCers do if they did not have the nickname "cause" Would they actually work? That's even more preposterous.

[sioux7>5]

Actually, my argument has never been that UND has any legal duty to change its nickname. I do, however, believe that, as a public institution, UND has a moral duty to respect the wishes of the Sioux tribe.

I agree that people should learn to be slow to take offense and quick to forgive when offended. However, I also believe that we all ought to be respectful of others. That we should not, to the extent possible, use words others consider offensive, even if we do not, ourselves, share their opinion. Do you really disagree with that?

What? You truly lost me here, how can anyone know what might possibly offend someone else, should we carry a list with us and upon talking to someone hand it to them. The list would tell them what words offend me, so please refrain from using them. That argument is truly insane. I am offended by rap music, but I still have to hear it when some moron pulls up next to me wth there radio so loud it shakes my car. Should I tell them, I am sorry that music if offensive to me, please shut it off. So after I get my ass kicked, Gothmog are you going to come to my rescue and tell those young men that their music offends me and they should not listen to it, since it is so offensive. Just curious.

[ScottM]

Do you know what's really bizarre about the whole Sioux name issue? Amongst the Lakota, Oglala, Dakota, Natkota, Oyate, etc. people, there is controversy about being called Sioux. I came across a Native American blog, http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...logID=291536995 ,where he attempts to "debate the issue in a calm manner". So according to Gothmog, the Sioux shouldn't be calling themselves the Sioux either. It's offensive to some Native Americans.

Typical of the entire debate: White, silver spoon-fed suburbanites debating what's "good" and "right" for other races, genders, classes, etc.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

... or if you don't "get your way" are you going to continue the senseless pusuit of a perfect PC fuzzy bunnies and rainbows and everyone feels so good world?

I can tell you what is happening at Illinois. Now that Chief Illiniwek has been "retired", the PC loons are after the nickname. And they are not happy at all that we're actually going to have the band play the same music that we have used for years and years (undoubtedly because they know that the vast majority of people will be yelling "Chief" at the end, and during it many will be attempting to duplicate the dance).

A few years back the Board of Trustees assigned one Trustee the task of searching for compromises. He came back and said that no compromise was possible. This was after years of the pro-Illiniwek faction giving in, Chief's role on campus being slowly diminished, etc.

The people who are the absolute lunatics about this will continue to protest no matter what. Even if you change your name to "Butterflies" they'll find something else to protest.

And these last few days has been mildly interesting, but mostly they've been a rehash of the same things that have been said over and over again. My only question is this: who gets to define the following terms (all of which have been used over the last week or so)?

"Members of the group"

"Object"

"Moral"

"Unnecessarily"

"Historically Oppressed"

BTW, one word I haven't seen used here: "consistent". As in, "at least the NCAA is consistent by objecting to Pontiac" or "at least the protestors are consistent by objecting to the use of Indian names/images in business, movies and on their own reservations".

post edited for spelling

[Chewey]

I can tell you what is happening at Illinois. Now that Chief Illiniwek has been "retired", the PC loons are after the nickname. And they are not happy at all that we're actually going to have the band play the same music that we have used for years and years (undoubtedly because they know that the vast majority of people will be yelling "Chief" at the end, and during it many will be attempting to duplicate the dance).

A few years back the Board of Trustees assigned one Trustee the task of searching for compromises. He came back and said that no compromise was possible. This was after years of the pro-Illiniwek faction giving in, Chief's role on campus being slowly diminished, etc.

The people who are the absolute lunatics about this will continue to protest no matter what. Even in you change your name to "Butterflies" they'll find something else to protest.

And these last few days has been mildly interesting, but mostly they've been a rehash of the same things that have been said over and over again. My only question is this: who gets to define the following terms (all of which have been used over the last week or so)?

"Members of the group"

"Object"

"Moral"

"Unnecessarily"

"Historically Oppressed"

BTW, one word I haven't seen used here: "consistent". As in, "at least the NCAA is consistent by objecting to Pontiac" or "at least the protestors are consistent by objecting to the use of Indian names/images in business, movies and on their own reservations".

It does not surprise me that the PC loons are now going after the name, the music, etc. What did the UofI expect after caving in? Depending on the outcome of the UND matter, the UofI may have some precedent (in terms of procedure not law) to follow. If someone grows a spine there, they can take it to the NC00 too. All that the "compromise" did was embolden the wack jobs. Where does it end? The only way is to fight them and expose them.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

It does not surprise me that the PC loons are now going after the name, the music, etc. What did the UofI expect after caving in? Depending on the outcome of the UND matter, the UofI may have some precedent (in terms of procedure not law) to follow. If someone grows a spine there, they can take it to the NC00 too. All that the "compromise" did was embolden the wack jobs. Where does it end? The only way is to fight them and expose them.

Just to be fully accurate, they always said they wouldn't stop at Chief, they wanted the name too. Its the halftime show music that's a new demand.

And yes, we at Illinois are led by the Neville Chamberlains of the prairie.

[Chewey]

Just to be fully accurate, they always said they wouldn't stop at Chief, they wanted the name too. Its the halftime show music that's a new demand.

And yes, we at Illinois are led by the Neville Chamberlains of the prairie.

Have any of the alumni sought to remedy this? I know they're well-entrenched but there must be a way of exorcising them. Perhaps the heads of the UofI alumni association should speak with the heads of the FSU alumin association. I thought Dennis Hastert or some big wig Congressman or Senator was an alum of the UofI and was really pieved by all of this obsequiousness to the PC loons. Get rid of the pussillanimous wimps.

[SoCalSiouxFan]

If they could have run this past a full association vote and got Myles and the Exec Comm's desired outcome, why didn't they?

Shouldn't the Association be mad at them for not doing it the right way (and saving a court battle)?

The real question is what is a fair and impartial desired outcome? If the NCAA chooses to sanction some schools but exempt others their rules would be considered arbitrary and unenforceable, maybe even illegal. Wouldn't any attempt to enforce an arbitrary, unenforceable, or illegal rule just lead to another injunction, more litigation, and more claims for damages?

[SoCalSiouxFan]

But we're not talking about bad drivers or sports rivals, are we? We're talking about an historically oppressed group, one of the most oppressed in world history.

"One of the most oppressed in world history" Oh the guilt of it all. I'm supposed to feel sorry when my european ancestors fled from generations of war, torture, murder, poverty, starvation, disease, religious persecution, (basically victims of every kind of human rights violation imaginable) to become indentured servants (slaves) in the new world. Then once here they had to fight and die in the revolutionary war, civil war, and every war since just so that future generations could live in a county that protects human rights.

Should people be given special rights or privileges because their ancestors were "historically" oppressed. If so count me in.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Have any of the alumni sought to remedy this? I know they're well-entrenched but there must be a way of exorcising them. Perhaps the heads of the UofI alumni association should speak with the heads of the FSU alumin association. I thought Dennis Hastert or some big wig Congressman or Senator was an alum of the UofI and was really pieved by all of this obsequiousness to the PC loons. Get rid of the pussillanimous wimps.

I'd say the alumni are about 90% dead-set against dropping Chief. The problem is that Illinois is one of the most Democratic of all states. Right now the Democrats control the Governors office and both houses of the State Legislature (and they STILL can't agree on a budget). Needless to say, they saw Chief as a discriminatory, bigoted symbol and dropped him in order to pander to their voters.

I don't think Hastert is an alum. Besides that, he's no longer in power. He made it clear even before this last election that he had no desire to remain as either Speaker of the House or Minority Leader.

Our two Senators are people you may have heard of: Barack Obama and his lap dog, Dick Durbin. Those two certainly won't help (see "pandering" above).

[mksioux]

The news is there is no news on the settlement front as the court order suspending discovery is about to expire.

[Goon]

I'd say the alumni are about 90% dead-set against dropping Chief. The problem is that Illinois is one of the most Democratic of all states. Right now the Democrats control the Governors office and both houses of the State Legislature (and they STILL can't agree on a budget). Needless to say, they saw Chief as a discriminatory, bigoted symbol and dropped him in order to pander to their voters.

I don't think Hastert is an alum. Besides that, he's no longer in power. He made it clear even before this last election that he had no desire to remain as either Speaker of the House or Minority Leader.

Our two Senators are people you may have heard of: Barack Obama and his lap dog, Dick Durbin. Those two certainly won't help (see "pandering" above).

So I guess we could say good bye to Chief Illiniwek. The Dems aren't going to go against a big part of their base by supporting legislation that would demand the NCAA back off and let the member schools decide what their monkiers will be...

[dakotadan]

GFHerald - Judge: Both sides seek resolution before trial

That namesake exception process has been discussed at every meeting Jahnke has attended with UND and NCAA attorneys, he said.

At a July 2 meeting in the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, Jahnke said, NCAA attorneys described for UND attorneys the process by which Florida State won its namesake exception.

A sheet of Jahnke's handwritten notes from that meeting includes the sentence

[Chewey]

GFHerald - Judge: Both sides seek resolution before trial

[Goon]

[Chewey]

It's really inappropriate for a Judge to comment to the media about a case. I am not certain if it is a violation of judicial ethics; it think it may be. If the Judge is commenting on it, perhaps they are close to a "settlement" of some sort. Although the O.J. Simpson matter was a criminal matter instead of a civil one, I do not even think Lance Ito commented to the media until after the case was over. Maybe Jahnke wants to get booted off of the case.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=47754

[Chewey]

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Not to mention the pressure from the white hippie professors.

Well, right now the profs (along with some of the tribes) are concentrating on attacking the University. But if and when you persuade one tribe to sign off on the exemption, the dissenting tribes will turn on that cooperating tribe.

But you're right, it will to be interesting to see if a prof (especially a prof who is NOT a member of some "victim" class) has the guts to go after the poor, oppressed, downtrodden, victimized Native Americans.

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Its just my opinion, but the minute you get a signoff from one tribe they'll come under tremendous pressure from the other tribes. And personally I think that will get down to the level of which tribe owns "Sioux" as opposed to "Standing Lake Sioux" or other variations.

It's my understanding that the origin of the Sioux name is not from any of the tribes in North Dakota but was the name given to them by their enemies.

So if the enemies of the tribes own the name then maybe the 7th Calvery (once a Sioux enemy) should signoff on the name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._7th_Cavalry_Regiment According to wikipedia the 7th Calvery seems to be have connections to Irish soldiers that participated in the Indian wars, so maybe the Fighting Irish own the name?

[star2city]

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=176255

[Goon]

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=176255

[Chewey]

[Goon]

Agree. Expose the NC00 for what it really is. I think if the matter goes to trial, I'd subpoena several of the UND professors and ask about them having scummed UND during the last several years and what role they played in getting the NC00 to not follow its "policy" with respect to UND.

Then have them fired. When I read that these bozos did that I wanted to ask them why even work here if UND is such a horrible place. Seems its good enohgh for them come pay day. Some of these people need to go out and do some real work at a real job...

[siouxforeverbaby]

Then have them fired. When I read that these bozos did that I wanted to ask them why even work here if UND is such a horrible place. Seems its good enohgh for them come pay day. Some of these people need to go out and do some real work at a real job...

stupid part is they are probably tenure and can't be fired. They can quit but they can't be fired. Which then why don't they? cause they would not be able to fufill their duty in telling the poor uninformed students their wise wisdom.