siouxhockey5 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Just seeing what you guys think, man the season has to start soon. Siouxhockey5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spfreak Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I think it is a toss up simply because Toews will be playing on the first or most likely second line and Kessel may end up on the second or third line because of returning players for the goofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 This just isn't fair right now, but I'd have to guess Kessel. He's not going to be on anything other than MN's first line, and first PP unit. On the big frozen ocean, he'll be flying around many a defenseman. Toews won't be UND's first-line center, as Zajac owns that spot. I'm not sure how PP time will work out. Plus Kessel's six months older. I hope this doesn't become a regular comparison. Let's just enjoy watching Toews come of age as a hockey player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxhockey5 Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Its simply for fun to see what people think, no one is bashing the skills of either of these players, its no different than the Parise and Vanek comparisons. Siouxhockey5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 This just isn't fair right now, but I'd have to guess Kessel. He's not going to be on anything other than MN's first line, and first PP unit. On the big frozen ocean, he'll be flying around many a defenseman. Toews won't be UND's first-line center, as Zajac owns that spot. I'm not sure how PP time will work out. Plus Kessel's six months older. I hope this doesn't become a regular comparison. Let's just enjoy watching Toews come of age as a hockey player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with this post. Also, something to consider, is that Lucia is all about cherry picking ala Vanek. I would not put it past Lucia to have him out on the pk unit as well, sitting out near the blue line looking for an outlet pass. Hakstol's style demands that every player play hard at both ends of the ice. Lucia's style is offense first, defense after that. So I would expect Kessel to have more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ......but I'd have to guess Kessel. He's not going to be on anything other than MN's first line, and first PP unit.....Toews won't be UND's first-line center, as Zajac owns that spot. You mean Toews doesn't have to be the savior the way Kessel does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman0099 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 From what I've seen and heard, Kessel is a more offensive-impact type player than Toews, who is considered more of an all around type player similar to what Zajac is. I believe Kessel will score more points at Minny, but Toews will be no less impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Who the heck is this Kessel dude? And why should I care about him? More importantly, can anyone tell me when the Sioux start captain's practices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1Hakfan Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would like to know how many points Gopher fans think Kessel will get next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxhockey78 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would say that kid named Kessel. He's just going to cherry pick just like Van did. Just offense and no defense. I would Toews to score but I guess we will have to what for the season to begin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would like to know how many points Gopher fans think Kessel will get next season? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Gophers have an extremely soft schedule this season. Barring injuries, I'll go with 56 pts. I'd have no problem giving him the 61 that Vanek scored, but he will miss four games at the WJC and there is no guarentees the Gophers will make the Frozen Four so he could easily play in a lot fewer games then Vanek did his freshmen season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnt Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would guess that Kessel will outscore Toews by a bit. I think with the softer schedule and the big ice surface, he will put up 60+ points. What will be interesting to me is to see how many of those points are on the powerplay, because we know Kessel operates well in open ice, and nobody is going to pressure too much on that big ice surface, lest he makes someone look foolish. It will also be interesting to see how he does in big games, because you know he will have the bullseye on him. I guess what I am hoping for Toews is the same thing I wish for the Sioux -- take the first half of the year or so adjusting to college hockey and new teammates, then make a nice run the second half of the year for the regionals, and hopefully beyond. I don't want to put a point total on Toews, because if he does what I mentioned above, that would be a successful season. I know some gopher fans might think that is managing expectations, and I suppose it is, but I don't see the need to attach lofty numbers to freshmen, because in the end, as with Radke, you will probably find yourself disappointed more times than not. Don't want to make it seem like Radke was a failure, just that he didn't put up the numbers that people assumed he would, including myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I'd like to say Toews, BUT that would be a big surprise. Just the same I am happy to have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.B.T.G. Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I'd have no problem giving him the 61 that Vanek scored, but he will miss four games at the WJC and there is no guarentees the Gophers will make the Frozen Four . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait a minute. I thought the Gophers were not going to lose a game this year. Frozen Four is a lock for Minny from what I hear down here in Gopher land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux7 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 From what I've seen who cares about the points. I'd rather have Toews than Kessel anyway. I don't see Kessel giving up his body to play defense, digging in the corner for pucks, that sort of thing. Toews will do that. Kessel will probably have more points but I'll take Toews' all-around play anyday over just an offensive minded player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Wait a minute. I thought the Gophers were not going to lose a game this year. Frozen Four is a lock for Minny from what I hear down here in Gopher land. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not this year. DU is the lock, they have everyone returning, two-time champs, etc.... Forty wins minumum for those guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagard Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 From what I've seen who cares about the points. I'd rather have Toews than Kessel anyway. I don't see Kessel giving up his body to play defense, digging in the corner for pucks, that sort of thing. Toews will do that. Kessel will probably have more points but I'll take Toews' all-around play anyday over just an offensive minded player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Preferring Toews to Kessel is fine, but your reasoning is junk to me. It is very hard for me to believe that many of us "message board experts" have seen either of them play enough to tag Toews an outstanding all-around player or Kessel a one-dimensional premadonna. The biggest reason to prefer Toews is that he will very likely outscore Kessel by 40-50 points over his college career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 USA Today Aricle on the NHL Draft Interestingly, the projected No. 1 pick next season, Wisconsin native Phil Kessel, has been called "the American Sidney Crosby." "He has the skating ability of Pat LaFontaine and shooting ability of Brett Hull. That's a lethal combination," Pierre McGuire, a former NHL coach and current analyst with TSN television in Canada said. "He may not be the ambassador Sid is going to be because Sid is so polished." If both were eligible this season, McGuire said the split would probably be "17 general managers who favored Crosby and 13 who favored Kessel." Some of thing digs you guys are making at Kessel are pretty laughable when you take a look at some of the quotes, such as this one, from neutral onlookers about him. Toews will be a GREAT college player, but don't just blindly dismiss Kessel as just another recruit Gopher fans are pumping up. It's almost even between NHL GM's on who they'd rather have between Kessel and Crosby, according to McGuire. I wonder if that makes Crosby, a guy who has been tabbed to by many as a possible savior to the NHL, a one-way player who won't work hard? I doubt it. Just because he's not going to UND (or, in this case, going to Minnesota) doesn't make him lazy and only offensive-minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 USA Today Aricle on the NHL Draft Some of thing digs you guys are making at Kessel are pretty laughable when you take a look at some of the quotes, such as this one, from neutral onlookers about him. Toews will be a GREAT college player, but don't just blindly dismiss Kessel as just another recruit Gopher fans are pumping up. It's almost even between NHL GM's on who they'd rather have between Kessel and Crosby, according to McGuire. I wonder if that makes Crosby, a guy who has been tabbed to by many as a possible savior to the NHL, a one-way player who won't work hard? I doubt it. Just because he's not going to UND (or, in this case, going to Minnesota) doesn't make him lazy and only offensive-minded. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I find your response laughable. I do not recall many people here questioning Kessel's offensive abilities. Most here, as you will notice, believe that Kessel will outscore Toews (the point of this thread). What people are questioning is his defensive ability. His backchecking and physical play. Is he going to be a Zach Parise type player or a Vanek type player? Zach could score and forecheck. Vanek could just score. Is Kessel going to be like Zach and not get taken down for the life of himl, or is he going to be like Robbie Earl, where a strong breeze will send him sprawling? How is Kessel in the corners? In his own zone? What if he doesn't get space to skate? Does he grind his way through or does he shut down/break out the cheap play? These are all questions that loom over Kessel to me as he enters Minnesota this season. And, yes, I have seen both Toews and Kessel play. Toews is a center. I would think that that would make him better at faceoffs than Kessel. He also has a reputation for being able to set other players up just as well as he can score himself. He is great in the corners and great in his own zone. Hakstol values forwards who can forecheck. I would not put it past Toews to be decent at that too. But like I said, this thread was about offensive ability and no one questioned Kessel on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Most of the time defensive liablilties kill penalties for the U-18 team like Kessel did so often. Very few people have seen both play at all, let alone seen both play enough to make a logical stance as to the exact type of player they'll be. On here, is appears as this is how it goes: North Dakota recuit: hard working, great at everything, lockerroom guy, digs pucks out of the corners, etc. Minnesota recruit: cherry-picker, lazy, will be a cancer in the lockerroom, defensive-liablilty, primadonna, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Not this year. DU is the lock, they have everyone returning, two-time champs, etc.... Forty wins minumum for those guys. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may not be too far off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 The biggest reason to prefer Toews is that he will very likely outscore Kessel by 40-50 points over his college career. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your point is well-taken. Parise was part of a great class of forwards, and he has been (or soon will be) outscored over his career by some of them. Parise 116 Vanek 113 ---------------- Sertich 132 Sterling 129 Gauthier 116 and even ... Hirsch 93 The curious thing to me about comparing Toews and Kessel is that we do not know if they are even in the same league. We have a pretty good idea what Kessel is about: he dominated the US development program as none have, he showed flashes at the WJC that reveal him to be the most dynamic American forward under age 20, and he's the early choice for the top pick overall in the next NHL draft. Toews, on the other hand, is a relative unknown. We know that a few years ago he was considered among the top handful of Canadian forwards his age, and that he was the top pick in the WHL draft then. Since then, he's toiled in relative obscurity in Faribault, MN. (I know Shattuck is scouted, but it's nothing like the US program and the US WJC team for exposure.) The big question is, when he reappears, in a big-time hockey sense, this Fall in Grand Forks: Is he still one of the elite hockey players his age in North America? If so, then this might end up being a worthy discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Minnesota recruit: cherry-picker, lazy, will be a cancer in the lockerroom, defensive-liablilty, primadonna, etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You forgot "ugly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 From what I've seen who cares about the points. I'd rather have Toews than Kessel anyway. I don't see Kessel giving up his body to play defense, digging in the corner for pucks, that sort of thing. Toews will do that. Kessel will probably have more points but I'll take Toews' all-around play anyday over just an offensive minded player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wish Kessel was wearing green. He WILL be one of the best players in college hockey THIS year. Based on his performance at the world juniors, there is some reason to believe that he has some defensive liabilities, however that can be fixed. Regardless I wish he was wearing green... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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