2005-06 ND Highschool Hockey

[crosby_87]

If you would have been at the game watching you would have clearly seen that two of Shanley's goals should not have been counted. Shanley's first goal was scored by Mark Harrie who scored on a penalty shot which was called when a Red River defender took him down while skating a step behind him and the defender was beat by the speed of Harrie so he took Harrie down trying to prevent him from getting a shot off. The third goal didn't even go into the net as the puck dropped straight down and the net was pushed off of its pegs. Anyways if the puck did go in the net, the net was pushed to the right of Red River's goaltender where the goal took place.

May I also add that Central beat the top team in the west Minot 2-1 on a late goal by Simonson.

Why should that not be counted?

[ND Pride]

Regardless of the game, it is ludacris to say that one official can change the direction of the game. Sure they can call penalties, but officials can't score goals. Oh, and in that North game, Red River had 2 penalties called in the first 7 minutes of the 3rd period, so the refereeing obviously biased as some people think.

The above post is about a month old but it was included in a post today so I am going to make a comment on how issues with refs might be handled this year. I certainly hope the the referee-in-chief or the referee schedulers work hard to make sure that refs do not do games in which their own kids are playing or let them ref games where they have a position at the school. These situations can create a conflict of interest or appearance of a conflict of interest. This holds for all schools whether we are talking about South, Bismarck, Red River, North, Minot, etc. etc. Then we will be less likely to have the type of situation that generates the conversations on this board typified by the comment above and others like it.

Interesting statistical observation though, in the game in question referenced above by soohockey, each team had one penalty in the first period - an interference on each side - a rather quiet game from a penalty standpoint. At that point the visiting team led 1-0. After the second period it was 2-0 and the penalty count was 4 in that period for the visitors and 3 for the home team. In the third period the penalty situation was 5 called on the visitors and three on the home team. Two power play goals were scored by the home team and then a final even strength goal. It is difficult to draw conclusions from these things - a person really needs a game tape to do it. Stating the the home team had two penalties called on them does not necessarily mean that the calls were balanced. Those two penalties were called against the most penalized player on the home team (44 minutes on the season). There are some penalties that are so obvious that they have to be called by an self-respecting ref. In any case, whatever this means, the sport would be better served by the assignment of officials without obvious ties to teams playing.

[ND hockeyrr]

Why should that not be counted?

[ND Hockey 4]

Why should that not be counted?

The rule states that a player must have 3 steps to be a pentaly shot rather than a tripping call.

[Jack Mickleson]

If you would have been at the game watching you would have clearly seen that two of Shanley's goals should not have been counted. Shanley's first goal was scored by Mark Harrie who scored on a penalty shot which was called when a Red River defender took him down while skating a step behind him and the defender was beat by the speed of Harrie so he took Harrie down trying to prevent him from getting a shot off. The third goal didn't even go into the net as the puck dropped straight down and the net was pushed off of its pegs. Anyways if the puck did go in the net, the net was pushed to the right of Red River's goaltender where the goal took place.

May I also add that Central beat the top team in the west Minot 2-1 on a late goal by Simonson.

Rule 91. b states:

When a player, in control of the puck (or who could have obtained possession and control of the puck) on the opponent's side of the center red line and having no other opponent to pass than the goalkeeper, is tripped or otherwise fouled from behind, thus preventing a reasonable scoring opportunity, a penalty shot shall be awarded to the non-offending side. Nevertheless, the Referee shall not stop play until the attacking side has lost possession of the puck to the defending side.

(NOTE) The intention of this Rule is to restore a reasonable scoring opportunity which has been lost by reason of a foul from behind when the foul is committed on the opponent's side of the red line.

The point of this rule that should be made clear is 'preventing a reasonable scoring opportunity.' You said 'a Red River defender took him down while skating a step behind him and the defender was beat by the speed of Harrie.' Now, just from that context I would say it was the right call.

[ND Pride]

The rule states that a player must have 3 steps to be a pentaly shot rather than a tripping call.

If a player has three steps, the defender would need an 8 foot stick to trip him...

[specifics]

[ND Pride]

Why should that not be counted?

The rule states that a player must have 3 steps to be a pentaly shot rather than a tripping call.

[specifics]

Nowhere in the rule book does it state any such "3 step" rule. What we have here is a Red River fan or player (thus the RR at the end of his name) stating fictional rules to support his team.

[QB Eagles #7]

I was at the game and what I think hockeyrr was trying to say is that the Shanley player was not broken away from the defender. He did not have a clear path to the net and that is the reason he shouldnt have been awarded a penalty shot. I dont know where he came up with the "three step rule" however.

[Squires]

I was at the game and what I think hockeyrr was trying to say is that the Shanley player was not broken away from the defender. He did not have a clear path to the net and that is the reason he shouldnt have been awarded a penalty shot. I dont know where he came up with the "three step rule" however.

I dont think you're fooling anyone by making a brand new screen name, and trying to back yourself up.

[X2theZ]

I was at the game and what I think hockeyrr was trying to say is that the Shanley player was not broken away from the defender. He did not have a clear path to the net and that is the reason he shouldnt have been awarded a penalty shot. I dont know where he came up with the "three step rule" however.

He was probably just an Extra/ JV player trying to voice his opinion.

[Squires]

A role player.

[QB Eagles #7]

I like when people make false assumptions about things they do not know. I have no association with Red River hockey and dont even know who hockeyrr is, which would make it foolish of me to "stand up for him". Sorry for voicing my opinion on what I saw, I thought thats what this forum was for.

[Wilbur]

Come on people, Red River won the game 8-3, does it really matter if there was a penalty shot or not?

You guys sound like UND-Duluth fans arguing about the empty net goal in the Duluth series. Take that goal away its still 4-3 UND. Take the Shanley goal away...its 8-2 Red River...

[Bauer16]

Nowhere in the rule book does it state any such "3 step" rule. What we have here is a Red River fan or player (thus the RR at the end of his name) stating fictional rules to support his team.

You are correct on the "3 step" rule. It is more of a guideline type rule that officials go by. There are many tihngs that officials do during the game that are not by the book, but are called and the players,fans, and parents do not even know it. These are minimal, but do influence the game none the less.

[X2theZ]

I like when people make false assumptions about things they do not know. I have no association with Red River hockey and dont even know who hockeyrr is, which would make it foolish of me to "stand up for him". Sorry for voicing my opinion on what I saw, I thought thats what this forum was for.

You did stand up for him, thus calling yourself foolish.

[QB Eagles #7]

You did stand up for him, thus calling yourself foolish.

There's a difference between standing up for someone and saying what you saw. The only thing I agreed with him on was that it should not be a penalty shot, I disagree with his reasoning. Also, grow up.

[specifics]

There's a difference between standing up for someone and saying what you saw. The only thing I agreed with him on was that it should not be a penalty shot, I disagree with his reasoning. Also, grow up.

To end all further speculation... I believe anyone in their right mind who was at the game will agree the Red River defenseman had no prayer of stoping Harrie on his breakaway unless he was to do something illegal to prevent his forward process (trip,hook,slash...). With that said, unless the defenseman would have allowed Harrie to skate untouched twords the goal I don't see this penalty shot being avoided unless through some spectacular play the heavans shifted and he dove and swiped the puck away without touching Mr. Harrie. Harrie was past the defenseman, and pulling further when he was taken down. Easy call. Nice goal.

[ND hockeyrr]

Nowhere in the rule book does it state any such "3 step" rule. What we have here is a Red River fan or player (thus the RR at the end of his name) stating fictional rules to support his team.

Its not a fictional rule, but okay done arguing, and yes I am a Red River fan I'm just mad how someone can say that RR struggled with Shanely when they beat them 8-3 and 1 of the goals shouldn't have counted. It was the first game for RR, they played pretty damn good.

[Warthog]

If a player has three steps, the defender would need an 8 foot stick to trip him...

Does anyone have a direct quote of the rule. Here is what I found from a USA Hockey rulebook. I did not see any reference to a 3 step rule - I would be interested in seeing the "3 step rule" cited here just for informational purposes.

"When a player, in control of the puck on the opponent's side of the center red line and having no other opponent to pass than the goalkeeper, is tripped or otherwise fouled from behind, thus preventing a reasonable scoring opportunity, a penalty shot/optional minor shall be awarded to the non-offending team. Nevertheless, the Referee shall not stop the play until the attacking team has lost possession and control of the puck to the defending team." USA Hockey Official Rules

[ND Pride]

Does anyone have a direct quote of the rule. Here is what I found from a USA Hockey rulebook. I did not see any reference to a 3 step rule - I would be interested in seeing the "3 step rule" cited here just for informational purposes.

"When a player, in control of the puck on the opponent's side of the center red line and having no other opponent to pass than the goalkeeper, is tripped or otherwise fouled from behind, thus preventing a reasonable scoring opportunity, a penalty shot/optional minor shall be awarded to the non-offending team. Nevertheless, the Referee shall not stop the play until the attacking team has lost possession and control of the puck to the defending team." USA Hockey Official Rules

ND high school hockey does not use the USA Rule Book. ND hockey use the National Federation of State High School hockey rule book. http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Index.cfm . Looking at the USA rule book does not do anybody any good.

[Warthog]

[]

ND high school hockey does not use the USA Rule Book. ND hockey use the National Federation of State High School hockey rule book. http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Index.cfm . Looking at the USA rule book does not do anybody any good.

[ND Pride]

[]

ND high school hockey does not use the USA Rule Book. ND hockey use the National Federation of State High School hockey rule book. http://www.nfhs.org/ScriptContent/Index.cfm . Looking at the USA rule book does not do anybody any good.

Great and thanks for the link. The only problem is that the site, and online rule book, is only available to subscribers. So really, the link does not do anyone any good - without a membership password. If you have access to the site how about reading it and enlightening all of us on their statement on the conditions that lead to the awarding of a penalty shot.

[ND Hockey 4]

No respectable team should beat shanley by less than 8 goals or surrender more than 1...