2005-06 ND Highschool Hockey

[junior24]

There were no RR hockey players that got minors this weekend.

Also, If im not mistakin RR was screwed out of a goal in the 2005 post season, right?

[soohockey15]

As a mental exercise consider the following scenarios all involving actual situations of referee error:

1. Five seconds left in the game and one team scores a goal on a slapshot but the puck hits the pipe in the back of the net and comes out. The ref, racing to keep up with the play, is partially screened and incorrectly calls no goal. The team that scored the incorrectly disallowed goal loses 1-0. Did the official have an impact on the direction of the game?

2. Thirty seconds left in the game and a player shoots the puck on a breakaway but it is apparently stopped on the line under the goalie's pads. The ref sees the goalie move forward and believes the goalie pulled the puck back over the line (no goal). He awards the attacking team a goal. The attacking team wins the game 3-2. Did the official have an impact on the direction of the game?

3. Early in the first period an attacking forward falls near the crease as he moves past the goal. The ref, who has a bad angle on the play, sees the goalie move his stick and incorrectly calls him for tripping. The attacking team is awarded a power play opportunity but does not score. Did the official change the direction of the game?

It has been claimed that officials do not score goals and in the sense of shooting the puck with a stick they do not score goals. However, the interpretation of an official legitimizes a goal and sometimes, not very often, they credit a goal that is indeed not a goal and disallow goals that are legitimate scores.

If refs did not make errors there would be no motivation to have replays. We can see that at the highest level the growth of replays has been significant. That growth tells us that there is error and that the hockey establishment wants to minimize/eliminate it. Anyone who has done any work as an official can tell you that getting the proper position on a play is sometimes very very difficult. They typically do the best they can but the speed of the game often puts impossible demands on them.

I think the scenarios above show that an official can change the direction of a game. There are situations where a team does not have time to recover from an incorrect call. When the call involves a misinterpretation of a goal (allow or disallow) the impact is direct. When the ref makes an incorrect penalty call the impact is indirect - the team receiving the penalty can still defend against it and the team with the advantage still has to have the skill (or sometimes luck) to take the advantage and score.

Some of the discussion in this thread has grossly oversimplified the impact of officials. The impact depends on the nature of the situation, the point of the game, and the type of call made.

Five more days before high school hockey begins.

The first two examples, yes, the official obviously impacts the outcome of the game. Those instances are rare and weren't in the context of the argument. We were talking about officials calling penalties and having that effect the outcome of the game (we covered the no-call of the goal in overtime, but briefly).

[X2theZ]

Wondering if anyone knew how many RR varsity hockey players were involved in this past weekends party raids? I heard from numerous people that as many as 6 were charged with minor in possession, the # depending upon who makes the big team.

I heard that, 5-6 Red River hockey players got caught at a party where there was alcohol, and that the A-D is looking into the matter to see what the appropriate suspensions will be. Someone threw out names but this was just thier speculation that jake brown, david hovet, matt marchel might have been involved. So it looks to me that if this is true,they only lost role players no one that will make an impact this year.

[Squires]

I also heard that some West Fargo hockey players got minors as well, anyone know if there is any truth behind this?

[specifics]

The first two examples, yes, the official obviously impacts the outcome of the game. Those instances are rare and weren't in the context of the argument. We were talking about officials calling penalties and having that effect the outcome of the game (we covered the no-call of the goal in overtime, but briefly).

Actually the context of the argument was very broad, that being someone said the referees do not impact the outcome of the game. I belive ND PRIDE was simply proving the point that they do in fact strongly impact the game. As a matter of fact, every penalty called impacts the outcome of the game in some way. Stating that those first two situations are rare is ludacris. Maybe with the time of the goals scored but it is not uncommon for a goal to be disallowed when it was in fact a goal.

[soohockey15]

I heard that, 5-6 Red River hockey players got caught at a party where there was alcohol, and that the A-D is looking into the matter to see what the appropriate suspensions will be. Someone threw out names but this was just thier speculation that jake brown, david hovet, matt marchel might have been involved. So it looks to me that if this is true,they only lost role players no one that will make an impact this year.

I have spoken with several players on and around the team and there is little truth to that rumor. I think that I speak for everyone on this board to get your facts right before you post this slander about these kids. That is no one's business but the kid's and their families until the truth (if any) comes out. Come on guys, I thought you had more class than that. I'm sure these kids, their parents, friends, and anyone close to these kids would all be disappointed to learn that people are going on message boards and putting up these lies about these three kids. I'd be quite surprised to learn that these guys are risking parts of their senior hockey seasons drinking. When we cross the line of bringing names into the conversation, well, it's just plain disappointing. What if people read this and go and tell their friends, and word gets out that these guys are all suspended, with no truth behind the rumor? Go back to your sources and get the real truth.

[WWPKD]

I heard that, 5-6 Red River hockey players got caught at a party where there was alcohol, and that the A-D is looking into the matter to see what the appropriate suspensions will be. Someone threw out names but this was just thier speculation that jake brown, david hovet, matt marchel might have been involved. So it looks to me that if this is true,they only lost role players no one that will make an impact this year.

No such events took place. You've been misinformed.

[soohockey15]

I want to reiterate how disappointed I am in some people on this board. If it were me when I was in high school or my son (who is thankfully not yet reached high school) I would be quite hurt by these comments. Before posting anything else, people, please, please, please, get your facts right. OK I'm done.

[junior24]

Congratulations on being a complete jerk X2theZ. Not only is that terribly mean and stupid it is very immature. You show a lot of class by posting names of KIDS in this town and accusing them of things that never happend. I personally know these kids and they are wondering where and hell you come up with you BS information. As Soohockey15 said get your facts straight and untill then dont post anything.

[ND Hockey 4]

Yeah I'm sure those kids are just crushed now that someone said they might have gotten a minor.

[Mr. Blanston]

I want to reiterate how disappointed I am in some people on this board. If it were me when I was in high school or my son (who is thankfully not yet reached high school) I would be quite hurt by these comments. Before posting anything else, people, please, please, please, get your facts right. OK I'm done.

Soohockey how long has it been since you were in high school?

to everyone who said that mclean and stahl are the best goalies in the state, congratulations for being complete morons. those kids really showed up to play today, and together posted a stellar save % of just over 67%. stahl was a complete veg in net today. i couldve put a 12 yr old girl in there and it wuoldve been a closer game. and for mclean, well 8 saves on 13 shots to a team that had a grand total of 0-count 'em ZERO players on the WDA all tourney team really speaks for itself. mr mclean u should buy your defensemen some steak dinners tontie because without them i wonder how many goals century wouldve scored. 15? 20? both mclean and stahl should buy a new pair of breezers for tomorrows games, seeing as how both of theres are covered in piss.

I was under the impression you were a current student at Red River, but you're clearly an adult with a small child. Guess I was way off.

[soohockey15]

Yeah I'm sure those kids are just crushed now that someone said they might have gotten a minor.

Well maybe I took the kids being crushed a little too far, but my point is that these names shouldn't appear in this forum because the rumors are completely false and untrue.

Soohockey how long has it been since you were in high school?

I was under the impression you were a current student at Red River, but you're clearly an adult with a small child. Guess I was way off.

I was a student at Red River, but I have since graduated and am now (attempting) finishing up college.

[teamsioux]

I did not mention any names because of the fact I couldn't be sure who it was, but I will say that one of the sources who told me was a parent of a RR student involved in the hockey program.

No such events took place. You've been misinformed.

[ND Pride]

I want to reiterate how disappointed I am in some people on this board. If it were me when I was in high school or my son (who is thankfully not yet reached high school) I would be quite hurt by these comments. Before posting anything else, people, please, please, please, get your facts right. OK I'm done.

I would like to add my support to soohockey15's comments. Listing the names of kids in a negative context, whether it is a critique of their play, or something else is poor form, to put it mildly.

[Haas!]

So anyway, back to hockey...

I'm curious, are there any teams/players out west to look out for this year?

[Haas!]

South choked, something they are pretty good at. Every year all we hear is South South South. Every year in the championhip, it is Grand Forks, Grand Forks, Grand Forks. This year will be no different.

I am going to save this quote somewhere and let you read it again at the end of the state tournament... Grafton PR and Fargo South are the teams to beat IMO. I think RR will be good but not nearly at the same level as GPR and FS. Central will be hurting all year but i think they can pull it together come playoff time and do okay. I think Fargo North will put up a much better showing than most think, with Klenow leading them. Jamestown, WF, Whap, Shanley....no comment

[Cratter]

I am going to save this quote somewhere and let you read it again at the end of the state tournament... Grafton PR and Fargo South are the teams to beat IMO. I think RR will be good but not nearly at the same level as GPR and FS. Central will be hurting all year but i think they can pull it together come playoff time and do okay. I think Fargo North will put up a much better showing than most think, with Klenow leading them. Jamestown, WF, Whap, Shanley....no comment

Sorta like I did with 'Specifics' comments? Souths record last year 18-8-1. RR 16-8-1. Doesn't seem like South was much better if any. Because after all they did lose to RR when it mattered most.

I swear this thread is an exact same repeat of last year. RR and Central will not be nearly as good as the year before blah blah blah...South is the best team. Everyone better watch out for them.

I'm not saying that RR or Central will necessarily win it this year but the facts speak for themselves.

1995 - Grand Forks

1996 - Grand Forks

1997 - Grand Forks

1998 - Grand Forks

1999 - South

2000 - Grand Forks

2001 - Grand Forks

2002 - Grafton

2003 - Grand Forks

2004 - Grand Forks

2005 - Grand Forks

[ND Pride]

So anyway, back to hockey...

I'm curious, are there any teams/players out west to look out for this year?

Haas - I have a few posts in this thread on the west. Check out post #s 123, 124,125, 128 as well as 135 and 136. Others have discussed the west as well - check out 5, 13, 15, 74, 77, 78, 97 and 225. This thread is getting to look like a book.

[TooTallTom]

Soohockey how long has it been since you were in high school?

I was under the impression you were a current student at Red River, but you're clearly an adult with a small child. Guess I was way off.

Soohockey, I was thinking the same thing, you obviously go to every RR game and know many, if not all of the players, on that team. You must be VERY close to that team if you are not on it.

[soohockey15]

Yes, I go to as many games as possible, but no, I do not play on the team. I know many of the players because I have siblings who are friends with those guys.

[ND Pride]

Congrats to Paul Weisgarber, Erick Galt and Jordy Christian of the Great Plains Elite League team. All three were named to one of two post season Minnesota Elite league (all-star) teams that will compete in the National Invitational Tournament this weekend. Jeff Foss of Moorhead was named as an alternate. The team (Team White) plays the Pittsburgh Hornets on Friday at 5:15.

[specifics]

Sorta like I did with 'Specifics' comments? Souths record last year 18-8-1. RR 16-8-1. Doesn't seem like South was much better if any. Because after all they did lose to RR when it mattered most.

I swear this thread is an exact same repeat of last year. RR and Central will not be nearly as good as the year before blah blah blah...South is the best team. Everyone better watch out for them.

I'm not saying that RR or Central will necessarily win it this year but the facts speak for themselves.

1995 - Grand Forks

1996 - Grand Forks

1997 - Grand Forks

1998 - Grand Forks

1999 - South

2000 - Grand Forks

2001 - Grand Forks

2002 - Grafton

2003 - Grand Forks

2004 - Grand Forks

2005 - Grand Forks

You are correct, the facts do speak for themselves. And the fact is that because Grand Forks won the championship in 95,96,97,98,00,01,03,04, and 05 does not mean they will win it in 06,07,08,09,10,11... that is a fact. Success in the past does not gaurentee it in the future. We are seeing more and more great players come out of the Fargo area than ever before and I would not be surpised if in the near future Fargo becomes the Grand Forks of old. Some of these players include Danny Irmen, Tyler Magura, Aaron Walski (from GF moved to Fargo as a bantam?), Elliot Okland, Jon Halstenson (criticize him all you want, he is playing Jr. A hockey), Paul Weisgarber (top players in Elite League), Erick Galt (top scoring D in elite leauge). Of course, you can name many more Grand Forks players to move on with success but my point is that more and more are coming from Fargo, and assuming this pace runs true, there will be many more great hockey players to come out of the city. On the Elite One team this year there was two players from Grand Forks. Fargo posted 6 players. On the Elite Two team Grand Forks had 7 players. Fargo posting 10 players. With those facts it seems as though the majority of elite players in the state right now are coming from the city of Fargo.

[Cratter]

You are correct, the facts do speak for themselves. And the fact is that because Grand Forks won the championship in 95,96,97,98,00,01,03,04, and 05 does not mean they will win it in 06,07,08,09,10,11... that is a fact. Success in the past does not gaurentee it in the future. We are seeing more and more great players come out of the Fargo area than ever before and I would not be surpised if in the near future Fargo becomes the Grand Forks of old. Some of these players include Danny Irmen, Tyler Magura, Aaron Walski (from GF moved to Fargo as a bantam?), Elliot Okland, Jon Halstenson (criticize him all you want, he is playing Jr. A hockey), Paul Weisgarber (top players in Elite League), Erick Galt (top scoring D in elite leauge). Of course, you can name many more Grand Forks players to move on with success but my point is that more and more are coming from Fargo, and assuming this pace runs true, there will be many more great hockey players to come out of the city. On the Elite One team this year there was two players from Grand Forks. Fargo posted 6 players. On the Elite Two team Grand Forks had 7 players. Fargo posting 10 players. With those facts it seems as though the majority of elite players in the state right now are coming from the city of Fargo.

Success in the past is an indicator of the future my friend.

The majority of those players come out of Fargo because they have a greater population...umm duh.

With all those great players you would have thought South would have won more hockey championships than one in how many years.

Good thing good players don't make a great team.

Chemistry and a bunch of other variables make a great championship team. And as of now the Fargo Schools seem to be lacking.

Its HS hockey. They are kids. You could essentially return a core of awesome players and still go nowhere.

[alum05]

Specifics-

Please don't ever say Fargo will be the Grand Forks of old, because there is no way that will happen. Grand Forks is and has always been hockey town, nd. That is almost a disgrace to North Dakota hockey to say that Fargo will pass Grand Forks.

[specifics]

Specifics-

Please don't ever say Fargo will be the Grand Forks of old, because there is no way that will happen. Grand Forks is and has always been hockey town, nd. That is almost a disgrace to North Dakota hockey to say that Fargo will pass Grand Forks.

Almost a disgrace to ND hockey? A disgrace to ND hockey would be saying that one city will dominate competition for the rest of eternity... thats a disgrace. Your saying that it is not possible for another city in the state to become dominant for 5-10 years of high school hockey? So your essentially saying ND hockey is not good enough to produce enough quality players and coaching in another city to compete and or surpase Grand Forks? If you ask me, saying such things is a disgrace to North Dakota hockey. You selling the whole state short by saying there will never be enough talent elsewhere to consistently beat the Grand Forks schools. So thank you for selling the hardworking players and coaches from Fargo North, Fargo South, West Fargo, Minot, Bismarck High, Bismarck Century, Jamestown, Wahpeton, Dickinson, Shanley, Williston, Grafton, Mandan, Devils Lake, Bottineau and Hazen short...

Cratter said- "Success in the past is an indicator of the future my friend.

The majority of those players come out of Fargo because they have a greater population...umm duh.

With all those great players you would have thought South would have won more hockey championships than one in how many years.

Good thing good players don't make a great team.

Chemistry and a bunch of other variables make a great championship team. And as of now the Fargo Schools seem to be lacking.

Its HS hockey. They are kids. You could essentially return a core of awesome players and still go nowhere."

Your right a majority of these players come out of Fargo because we have a greater population. In that regard don't citites with larger populations usually produce teams better than those with smaller populations? Yes they do. Because the larger population you have to pick from the better your team will be. And good players don't make a great team? Well then, do bad players make a great team? Who does make a great team? Maybe you were trying to say great players make great teams, but I'm not sure. Good players make good teams, sometimes championship teams. The point your trying to make is unclear in your post but maybe I can clarify. With the exception of last year, Grand Forks has won the state championship because they had the most talented team. The majority of the time, in High School hockey, the team that is more talented from back to front will win the game and the championship. This is high school you are correct, but chemistry and "a whole bunch of other variables" play less of a factor than your trying to make it sound like. What are these other factors? Or did you use those words because you don't know as much about the sport as you want everyone to believe you do? It is high school hockey. It isn't Jr. A where players are trying to get division one scholorships or college where players are trying to sign with a pro team. It's high school, a team where your playing with your best friend, and your ego doesnt get in the way because you don't want to end your senior season on a losing team. You play on the third line and you keep your mouth shut because your not a superstar and that doesn't matter to you. You want the team to succeed, so a team of awesome players in high school is going to take you a very long way almost every time. Almost every time...