jimdahl Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Both coaches have been on the job for 5 years. Babich, bless his heart, has a 44-15 record at NDSU. Lennon on the other hand has a 43-16 record at your institution Your "facts" seem wrong in a way that drastically shifts the statistics in favor of your argument. Lennon joined UND in 1999 so has coached 4 seasons. His record over that period is 36-12 (game results tallied from this site): 1999 9-2 2000 8-3 2001 14-1 2002 5-6 Babich joined NDSU in Spring of 1997, so has finished 6 seasons as Bison head coach. His record over that period is 46-23. (cite: http://www.gobison.com/mens/football/coaches/) Using the real numbers it's quite a different picture, isn't it? Lennon, 36-12, 4 years, 1 national championship, 2 NCC titles Babich, 46-23, 6 years As far as this season: if you need to pick on a rival's 5-6 season to make your own 2-8 seasons more palatable, I hope you find a new rival soon, you may need one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBB Posted December 3, 2002 Author Share Posted December 3, 2002 I took my stats from this link: http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/coachin.../coaching2.html I went back and checked and it says entering the 2002 season but it does show both coaches with 5 years experience? Babich was looking very good after the 200 season when he got to the semifinals, 2001 was a disappointment, 2002 was a wash out. It doesnt take long to lose your luster and Lennon took a huge giant step in that direction last year. There is no defending Babichs record. Its unacceptable. Lennon has had some success but I would be a little concerned in the direction of program this past season. the Sac State board is hot with coaching suggestions and Lennon remains a name that is mentioned. Their rumor board is saying a decision will be made before Christmas. Lots of names have surfaced from all divisions including Pat Behrens and Lennon from D2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I took my stats from this link: http://www.ncaa.org/stats/football/coachin.../coaching2.html I went back and checked and it says entering the 2002 season but it does show both coaches with 5 years experience? How absolutely odd. Though Babich did indeed have 5 years coming into 2002 (so add 1 to get 6), I'm certain that Lennon just joined the Sioux in 1999. However, I've certainly got to give you credit, JBB. It was definitely an honest mistake. I also would've quoted the stats off the NCAA web site without any fear of them being wrong. Update: I just figured this out. That years/record is all-time for the coach so they include Lennon's two years at University of Mary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFan4Life Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 I am very concerned. This can hurt recruiting in a huge way. One if the coach leaves at the beginning and crucial stages of the recruiting that would definately make an impact. THat combined with our record last year and we might have some troubles in a serious way. I hope that it doesnt. But looking to the future how would this impact the next coach. Do you think they would hire someone from inHouse. LIke Schwaggert, or Mussman? Or go find someone. I hope this situation is cleared up sooner before later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBB Posted December 3, 2002 Author Share Posted December 3, 2002 At any rate, all things considered you have to be happier with Lennon than the NDSU fans are with Babich. He has been a disappointment. Naturally, when I saw the records as posted on the web sight I was eager to point it out! I posted this somewhere else, but on the Sac State board the coaching talk is hot and heavy. Lennon is considered by many to be a legit candidate as is Behrens, but so many names from all divisions are being thrown around its hard to tell who is the front runner. They did say that the decision would be made by Christmas, so if Lennon did go it might be a lot sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFan4Life Posted December 3, 2002 Share Posted December 3, 2002 Does anyone know how all this has been addressed with the team? I recall when Coach Chapman left, the players said they were told by him that he declined and was staying, then the next day he changed his mind. This could hurt the moral of our team. I just want to know who would take over? WOuld they do an interim coach or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 Apparently, this story has some wheels. Wanles's tactics are pretty transparent if even the lick-spittle, gasbag ac fans and media have been speculating on this scenario since last spring. I do know that Coach Lennon is very disappointed with the current UND position regarding Division status. He firmly believes his football program should be at D1-AA. He spoke of this on the Wednesday coaches show following USD's decision to stay at D2. I was very surprised to see that no one on this board picked up on that. Anyway, press reports indicate Coach Lennon will be in Sacremento next week. I think Wanless is pitching this story hard. I believe wanless has unlimited access to the drooling fargo media and he could get an excellent coach to boot. If you look at the other candidates, you will see one is pat berhns( why hire him, the reason the previous coach was fired was because the Sac team lacked discipline. Go figure.) One candidate is a JUCO coach, another, a high school coach. One is O-coordinater at UC-Davis, another an assistant at Oregon. So the list includes 2 d2 head coaches, 1 JUCO head coach, 1 high school head coach, and 2 assistant coaches one soon to be d1-aa, one d-1. My thinking the job is Lennon's IF he wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBB Posted December 4, 2002 Author Share Posted December 4, 2002 Hissing and knashing your teeth at BISON fans isn't going to change the fact that coaching at D1AA footbal program, even Sac State, is a better proposition than coaching a D2 team even at your fine insititution. Nobody mentioned Lennon's comments because they are all too busy trying to explain why Decision 1 at NDSU is so bad and D2 is so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted December 4, 2002 Share Posted December 4, 2002 I have a solution that'll make everyone happy, even JBB! Let Wanless interview Lennon, but send him Babich to coach the team! PS - My guess is the coordinator from the rival down the road (Davis) has the inside lane. A guy like that has to have better connections in the local recruiting market. However, Lennon, with his track record, can't be far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 The "want" list for the head football coaching job at Sac State, has everything but Dale Lennon's name on it. They want a disciplinarian, they want a coach with a past history as a defensive coach, they prefer head coaching experience, they want success. Moroski(UC-Davis o- coordinater), has never been a head coach and been an offensive coach exclusively. Davis is a successful program, however, has never won the big enchilada. The rest have lesser credentials but some successes. Like I said, the job is Lennon"s IF he wants it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I agree with Pirate- I think it's Lennon's job if he wants it. AD's don't normally drop a guy's name in the local newspaper a day or two after a firing unless they're sure they've got their replacement pegged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBB Posted December 6, 2002 Author Share Posted December 6, 2002 I have read two confilicting salaries for Lennon: $84,000 and $60,000. The new job will pay about $92,000. Its hard to see why he would move to California for $8,000 but $30,000 is a different story. I dont think the recruiting connections will help the Davis Guy. There are people at Sac State that have all the connections they need. Plus, there is so much talent out there Davis has done it without much in the way of scholarships. I think Lennon is the guy, unless some other head coach from D1 with a successful record shows up. They want someone with a proven record at head coach. Babich is enjoying his first head coaching job now at NDSU. Why hes making $100,000 is way beyond me. If Lennon goes you guys can have him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmduf Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I was traveling by Knox, ND this past week and saw a big sign "hometown of Dale Lennon, coach of the UND Fighting Sioux 2001 National Champions". You know that has to be a big source of pride for him. He is a smalltown guy. I hope he holds out for better opportunities than Sac State. That would be a waste of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I have read two confilicting salaries for Lennon: $84,000 and $60,000. The new job will pay about $92,000. Its hard to see why he would move to California for $8,000 but $30,000 is a different story. I dont think the recruiting connections will help the Davis Guy. There are people at Sac State that have all the connections they need. Plus, there is so much talent out there Davis has done it without much in the way of scholarships. I think Lennon is the guy, unless some other head coach from D1 with a successful record shows up. They want someone with a proven record at head coach. Babich is enjoying his first head coaching job now at NDSU. Why hes making $100,000 is way beyond me. If Lennon goes you guys can have him! I believe the 84k figure is correct. I'm not sure where Kolpack came up with 60k. Losing Lennon would be big, but just as big might be the question of what happens with the rest of the UND coaching staff if Lennon leaves. From an article I read, all of the Sac State assistants' contracts expire January 1, so Lennon would have complete control of who he hires as assistants. Also losing Schweigert and possibly Mussman to Sac State would really hurt the continuity of the UND football program. I think Terry Wanless realizes he has to get the Sac State program turned around immediately with UC Davis moving to I-AA. If Wanless doesn't get a coach that can field a team that is competitive with a full scholarship UCD, they might not get another chance to get things turned around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Listening to Tim and Swyg this morning, Tim offered some provocative commentary. With regard to winless's quotes given to the lick-spittle, gasbag ac media and the possible Lennon hiring. winless told the forum that the process of hiring Lennon is alot like his hiring of Dean Blais. Tim went on to say that the last thing tw wanted to do was to hire anyone with previous involvements with the UND Hockey programs. Tim said tw went so far as to DENY any contacts or interviews with Cary Eades. Blais's credentials and personal characteristics were so overwhelming even winless could not turn Blais down. Maybe Pat Behrns is not such a bad choice at Sac State after all, both he and tw have truth as a second language. As for other coaches leaving, Mussman MIGHT go, however, Bubba has alot of loyalty to UND and the State and just could be the next Head Coach. I do think their is a 6'7" rs freshman QB who may leave for Sac State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirate Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I see where Sierra JC head coach Jeff Tisdel has taken himself out of the running for the job at Sac State. hmmm, maybe he already knows what Lennon will be seeing at Sacremento. Another note, St. Mary's, another D-1AA, No. Cal. school is also looking to replace a head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Here are a couple of sites to follow the Lennon situation: Sac St. Hornets Message Board Sacramento Bee - Hornets Sports Couple of questions about the coaching situation: Was Lennon upset that UND is staying Div II when the Stumbling Herd annouced its move, and is he still upset? Does Lennon aspire to coach at the highest (BCS) level, considering the rewards and the downside ? If Lennon were to leave, would Randy Hedberg be considered, or have too many bridges been burned after Lennon was hired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donalexander Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Wasn't Jeff Tesch one of the finalists to replace Roger Thomas? I suppose he would be a candidate also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmduf Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Hey.. Pat Behrns won three D-II national championships. I guess they are sticking to their story at "the Bee". I wonder how many Masters Degrees he has on his resume?? hm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 This article appeared in the Sacramento Bee today: http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/colle...p-6514872c.html It doesn't look too good based on some of the alleged quotes from Lennon. A few things perplex me, though. If Sac St. funds 63 scholarships like they supposedly do, how can their football budget be only $1 million (compared to $2 million at UND with 36 scholarships)? Also, it says in the article that Sac St. lacks the modern facilities to compete for recruits. How likely is it that they will be upgraded anytime soon considering the tight budget they have? It seems pretty strange that Lennon would even consider going to a program that has always been, and will probably always be second-fiddle to UC-Davis in that market, has poor facilities, a low budget even by division II standards, and to work for a guy who was almost universally disliked while at UND. I'm sure Lennon would get a raise equal to at least what he's offered by Sac. St. if he stays. Is I-AA, even at a low level, and perhaps the weather of Cali enough to compensate for all the negatives that go along with this program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 If Sac St. funds 63 scholarships like they supposedly do, how can their football budget be only $1 million (compared to $2 million at UND with 36 scholarships)? Â Â ... Is I-AA, even at a low level, and perhaps the weather of Cali enough to compensate for all the negatives that go along with this program? An attempt to answer these questions: In California, tuition in the CAL STATE system is very low for residents (< $1000 / semester). With California having nearly 40 million people and only seven I-A programs, a tremendous amount of football talent is available locally. There is no need to recruit out of state and pay scholarships at non-resident rates. Scholarships essentially pay just room and board for residents. Is I-AA worth the risk? No, but a school like Sacramento State has tremendous potential beyond I-AA, but is very high risk. Positives -Can work toward a Div I-A program - Sac State has designs on getting in a conference with Fresno St. or San Diego St (low Div I). -Recruiting of skilled players relatively easy -Sacramento is one of largest US cities without a major college or pro football team -One or two winning seasons could spark significant local interest and get politicians interested in building a football stadium Negatives -Poor facilities, literally have to build from the ground up -Will be compared with UCal-Davis -Mainly a commuter school with low student interest/loyalty -Cal State Universities have a history of shutting down football programs if they bleed too much red ink (CSU-Northridge, Long Beach, Fullerton etc) It is literally a 'California or Bust' deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 This makes it sound like the deal is almost signed: Football -- Newspapers in North Dakota are speculating that Dale Lennon, the University of North Dakota football coach, will replace John Volek as Sac State's coach. But before he leaves UND, Lennon wants to study Sac State's team thoroughly. He has requested game films of the Hornets' losses to UC Davis and Montana. "I'm very impressed with the current team," he said. "I think it's very talented. And the potential for this upcoming season is pretty high. Now, naturally, I haven't seen them practice. But from what I've been reading, I think there are a lot of good players in-house that we can build with. I can get a better idea of that once I see some film." http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story...p-6526339c.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBB Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 I think that says a lot. I dont know what he might find on the film that would make him stay. He will take all the assistants and players he wants too. It seems that D1AA football is a much better proposition for the coaches and players than it is for the average sue sox fan. In the near future you will also find that the opportunity for your other coaches to go D1 may be far better then the D2 league you are so commited to playing in. Many of you are begining to realize that the heart of your program is being ripped out for a chance to compete at the D1 level. Its nice to see Sac State has found a D2 farm club! See you in D1 soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 At any level below NFL head coach, a highly successful coach will always have the opportunity to move up to the next level. I'm tremendously happy to have had a coach who brought home a national championship, conference championships in half his years coaching, and now has the opportunity to move up. I wish him well, whatever his ambitions! (I can understand how NDSU fans who are considering buying out their coach to make him leave have a bit more sour attitude, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I think that says a lot. I dont know what he might find on the film that would make him stay. He will take all the assistants and players he wants too. It seems that D1AA football is a much better proposition for the coaches and players than it is for the average sue sox fan. As with everything you have posted on this board since your account was created, you are WRONG! Lennon staying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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