DI vs. DII

[bigmrg74]

[SirHinn]

[tony]

Either way in a 10 to 15 year process does it really matter, say in 2020, which approach was used?

Yes and no. No, because if the same endpoint is reached it's the same endpoint from either path. Yes, because only time, only time, will define which path was wiser.

You do understand that a move now by NDSU could work well for NDSU and a move later (or no move at all) by UND could work better for UND, don't you? Their situations are different. It makes absolutely no sense to say that only NDSU's or only UND's decision is The Right One (if that is, in fact, what you were trying to say). Heck, who knows? Maybe NDSU is in a no-win situation and we only picked DI because it was the only option that gives us a shot of ending well.

On a more philosophical note, very rarely does time settle anything. It has to be a pretty clear-cut case of rousing success or abyssmal failure to make that kind of "What if" judgement. Even if we had a parallel universe to look at, one in which NDSU stays in DII, so that you could compare the two situations a decade or two down the road, it still might settle the issue definitively.

Sirhinn, I'm the only one who has ever gave a UND fan crap about a signature and that was because they used it to take a shot at an NDSU player. Geez, does it really offend you that ndsubison is so optimistic about NDSU's title shot this year?

[The Sicatoka]

tony, you're assuming that either path will be able to be deemed "wiser". I guess I should have stated that only time will tell if either, neither, or both paths were wise.

[PCM]

On a more philosophical note, very rarely does time settle anything. It has to be a pretty clear-cut case of rousing success or abyssmal failure to make that kind of "What if" judgement. Even if we had a parallel universe to look at,  one in which NDSU stays in DII, so that you could compare the two situations a decade or two down the road, it still might settle the issue definitively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is possible to measure what was promised against what was achieved, analyze whether the goals set were actually met and determine whether the expectations raised ever came to fruition. I'm sure some of that went into the NCAA study on

[PCM]

I guess I should have stated that only time will tell if either, neither, or both paths were wise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that was obvious. Oh well...

[ndsubison]

[Jamestown]

I rather be a guppie or minnow with big fish like Montana St. and Southern Illinois in football and Minnesota, Wisconsin, Manhattan, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Kansas St. and Colorado St. in men's and women's basketball. Those are teams on 2005-2006 Bison schedule for the MAJOR sports of football and basketball.

Except for the conference issue, the move by NDSU to DI has been very successful and will continue to grow. One example was last year's individual contributions and corporate sponsorships to Teamakers of over a million bucks.

The move to DI by NDSU was indeed brilliant, as now their competition is with their peer DI institutions as mentioned above, not the Moorhead St's, Crookston's and Mary's of DII. NDSU has an association with peer DI institutions in ALL sports.

I'll send my contribution to NDSU, the minnow in the DI POND, rather than UND, the big fish in the DII PUDDLE!!

For the majority of sports fans, all that matters is who you play in football and basketball.

[sprig]

The move to DI by NDSU was indeed brilliant, as now their competition is with their peer DI institutions

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who forgot to lock the padded room?

For most sport fans, winning is primary.

[bigmrg74]

I rather be a guppie or minnow with big fish like Montana St. and Southern Illinois in football and Minnesota, Wisconsin, Manhattan, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Kansas St. and Colorado St. in men's and women's basketball.  Those are teams on 2005-2006 Bison schedule for the MAJOR sports of football and basketball.

Except for the conference issue, the move by NDSU to DI has been very successful and will continue to grow.  One example was last year's individual contributions and corporate sponsorships to Teamakers of over a million bucks.

The move to DI by NDSU was indeed brilliant, as now their competition is with their peer DI institutions as mentioned above, not the Moorhead St's, Crookston's and Mary's of DII.  NDSU has an association with peer DI institutions in ALL sports.

I'll send my contribution to NDSU, the minnow in the DI POND, rather than UND, the big fish in the DII PUDDLE!! 

For the majority of sports fans, all that matters is who you play in football and basketball.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah right, I'm really sure a school like Minneasota would consider a school like NDSU a peer institution.

The Bison don't even have hockey!! No way those guys would respect NDSU.

[BisonMav]

Yeah right, I'm really sure a school like Minneasota would consider a school like NDSU a peer institution. 

The Bison don't even have hockey!!  No way those guys would respect NDSU.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll put it this way, as to stop the smack.

NDSU and UND are Peer institutions

NDSU & UND = Minnesota more than NDSU & UND = Upper Iowa or Mary.

And it's not just in Athletics.

[Northcountry]

[bincitysioux]

From 2000 to 2005:

[ndsubison]

Who forgot to lock the padded room?

For most sport fans, winning is primary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Winning is indeed primary. Who you are beating makes it even sweeter. Referring to one of my previous posts, "I guess it's all about aspirations then, isn't it?".

[ndsubison]

[Northcountry]

I really do understand the point about transition and 10 years down the road, I just think that if there is indeed a 10 year plan that there should be some fairly specific benchmarks for the journey. At what point do you end scheduling for money?, at what point do you present a plan for facilities?, at what point do you join a conference?,at what point do you debate or even present budget essentials?, at what point do programs other that the marquee or anchor programs get their due consideration?

I think that these are details that need to be hashed out before starting the journey of a thousand miles with a single step. I intend no disrespect, and I do not live in a glass house, but I think that UND is playing their "peer institutions" (UNO, USD, Grand Valley, Pittsburg State, etc) in meaningful games. Games with Moorhead, Minnesota, Kansas, etc. are outside that group in either direction. As I said before, if Upper Iowa and Mary become staples of the scheduling, then it is time to plan for a change.

[BisonMav]

I really do understand the point about transition and 10 years down the road, I just think that if there is indeed a 10 year plan that there should be some fairly specific benchmarks for the journey.  At what point do you end scheduling for money?, at what point do you present a plan for facilities?, at what point do you join a conference?,at what point do you debate or even present budget essentials?, at what point do programs other that the marquee or anchor programs get their due consideration? 

I think that these are details that need to be hashed out before starting the journey of a thousand miles with a single step.  I intend no disrespect, and I do not live in a glass house, but I think that  UND is playing their "peer institutions" (UNO, USD, Grand Valley, Pittsburg State, etc) in meaningful games.  Games with Moorhead, Minnesota, Kansas, etc. are outside that group in either direction.  As I said before, if Upper Iowa and Mary become staples of the scheduling, then it is time to plan for a change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When DII started 30+ years ago, NDSU and UND were with peer institutions. Since then approx 75% of these schools are no longer DII, a majority being DI. Both Universities played Big Sky schools regularily. What changed over the 30+ years?

[bigmrg74]

[Bison Dan]

I really do understand the point about transition and 10 years down the road, I just think that if there is indeed a 10 year plan that there should be some fairly specific benchmarks for the journey.  At what point do you end scheduling for money?, at what point do you present a plan for facilities?, at what point do you join a conference?,at what point do you debate or even present budget essentials?, at what point do programs other that the marquee or anchor programs get their due consideration? 

I think that these are details that need to be hashed out before starting the journey of a thousand miles with a single step.  I intend no disrespect, and I do not live in a glass house, but I think that  UND is playing their "peer institutions" (UNO, USD, Grand Valley, Pittsburg State, etc) in meaningful games.  Games with Moorhead, Minnesota, Kansas, etc. are outside that group in either direction.  As I said before, if Upper Iowa and Mary become staples of the scheduling, then it is time to plan for a change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just look at this years schedule in bb and tell me it will get better!

[The Sicatoka]

And speaking of meeting goals, it's the start of a new fiscal year. The last I heard, NDSU was $600,000 short of its $1 million FY05 budget. How did that come out? How's the budget looking for FY06? Inquiring minds want to know.

Except for the conference issue, the move by NDSU to DI has been very successful and will continue to grow.  One example was last year's individual contributions and corporate sponsorships to Teamakers of over a million bucks.

Yes, Team Makers raised over a million dollars in FY 05. But that was their "had to make it" goal for their portion of the NDSU Athletics budget. (Just for comparison, UND's Fighting Sioux club raised $1.468 million in FY 04.)

The money PCM is asking about is the $1 million that Associate AD Inniger had to raise above and beyond anything that Team Makers put together. (On April 18 The Forum reported he'd only raised $400k of the $1 million.)

[bisonguy]

[UND92,96]

Over $100k of that $1 million was taken care of by the additional home football game that was scheduled after the report of the budget.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't mean to be argumentative about this, but is it really possible to predict what the net proceeds of this game (Arkansas-Monticello) will be? Did the season ticket price go up as a result of this 6th home game? What was the guarantee given?

[bisonguy]

I don't mean to be argumentative about this, but is it really possible to predict what the net proceeds of this game (Arkansas-Monticello) will be? Did the season ticket price go up as a result of this 6th home game? What was the guarantee given?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it's impossible to predict the net profit of a game. A projection, however, can be made, and that's the portion of NDSU's budget that PCM and Sicatoka keep bringing up.

They're talking about last year's budget (2004-2005), and when the projected $1MM shortfall was announced, NDSU only had five home football games at the time. It was clearly stated in the article that another home game would deduct $100k from the projected red ink.

To answer your other questions- yes, season tickets cost more if there are more games- don't know what the guarantee was (probably around $25-35k).

[UND92,96]

To answer your other questions- yes, season tickets cost more if there are more games- don't know what the guarantee was (probably around $25-35k).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I applaud Gene Taylor if the Arkansas-Monticello guarantee is in the $30k range. I seem to recall a few years back when NDSU was reportedly paying guarantees in the neighborhood of $50k for games against some pretty bad teams, e.g. MSU-Moorhead, which seemed like a huge waste of money considering the quality of the opponents. I don't recall whether that was the work of Taylor or Entzion, however.

[NDSU grad]

I applaud Gene Taylor if the Arkansas-Monticello guarantee is in the $30k range. I seem to recall a few years back when NDSU was reportedly paying guarantees in the neighborhood of $50k for games against some pretty bad teams, e.g. MSU-Moorhead, which seemed like a huge waste of money considering the quality of the opponents. I don't recall whether that was the work of Taylor or Entzion, however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those games ( I use the word loosely) were the work of Entzion.