Hirsch's odd display

[schmidtdoggydog]

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from this article. Tyler could clear things up by explaining his actions, but he hasn't. Lucia could pronounce him fit and ready to play, but he hasn't.

That doesn't leave me with the impression that Tyler's mentally fine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. The fact that

doctors advised him to simply say he missed the games for personal reasons.

implies some mental health issues. (Note it says doctors, not doctor) It clearly appears that he doesn't have any physical ailments that would require a doctor's visit, if he was just dinged up he would say so. And I would venture a guess that he wasn't meeting with a cardiologist or peditrician or dermatologist, etc. . . . .

[dagies]

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion from this article. Tyler could clear things up by explaining his actions, but he hasn't. Lucia could pronounce him fit and ready to play, but he hasn't.

That doesn't leave me with the impression that Tyler's mentally fine.

PCM, I'm willing to admit I could be wrong, but here's what I based my opinion on:

"There's rumors going around the university about me being crazy or something like that and I'm not even going to entertain those. So I'll just continue to walk the walk I usually do and be my same old self."

I take that to mean he's debunking the mental breakdown theories. You might even read into "walk the walk"....

Hirsch said doctors labeled what he went through as "personal problems," but he declined to elaborate.

Doesn't sound like he's agreeing with the doctors to me.

He said he and his family, who live in Bloomington, have been aware that some wild rumors have been swirling around about his condition and possible causes for his behavior.

"It's been tough, but I think if any family can handle being labeled weird, I think my family can," he said with a laugh. "It doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. It's something I can deal with and put behind me.

"As family goes, family's family and we're always going to stick together and be the same. Regardless of what people say, we know who we are."

Hirsch said the time has come to put his actions behind him, "and I hope it's behind a lot of other people, too."

On it's own, these last 2 comments don't say much to me. Added to some of the other comments, though, I think it makes a stronger case that Tyler's saying he and his family has some very strong beliefs that might make them look different than others, but they can handle it.

The experience hasn't really changed him, he said, but added, "I think if anything it's made me a little stronger. If I can deal with this I can pretty much deal with anything. I'm not going to say it's made me that much better or that much worse, but I can deal with it and move on in a positive direction."

Overall, it seems Tyler is saying I'm going to be who I am regardless of what other people think. That's admirable, and I don't have an issue with that. In fact, I admire him for having that attitude. From a "faith" angle, that's exactly what believers are supposed to do.

No, PCM, he doesn't come right out and say it. But I was one who believed he must have mentally broke down, and after reading what he has to say I have to question if that was really the problem.

[Fedorov]

implies some mental health issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think medical doctors tell people what to do a lot more than mental health professionals. Of course a majority of people with mental health issues can interpret things incorrectly, or choose to twist things to their liking.

[Fedorov]

The problem with religiosity is that it is a fine line to determine when it is to the point of delusional. If it was a religous need to engage in the postgame activities, then I would call it a psychological problem. And that folks, is what the NCAA has to say about that.

[PCM]

Overall, it seems Tyler is saying I'm going to be who I am regardless of what other people think.  That's admirable, and I don't have an issue with that.  In fact, I admire him for having that attitude.  From a "faith" angle, that's exactly what believers are supposed to do.

I don't know what the problem was because neither Tyler nor anybody else in a position to know will say publicly. I'm not going to take Tyler's assessment of the situation or his mental state at face value.

If everything was okay, then I doubt that Lucia would have Hirsch practicing on the fourth line. It also makes no sense that Lucia would express cautious optimism about Tyler's chances of playing in the Frozen Four.

Just because Tyler thinks everything's back to normal doesn't mean it is. To me, Lucia's words and actions indicate that questions remain.

[schmidtdoggydog]

I think medical doctors tell people what to do a lot more than mental health professionals. Of course a majority of people with mental health issues can interpret things incorrectly, or choose to twist things to their liking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Psychiatrists are medical doctors.

I don't know if he was suffering any physical ailments, perhaps smashing into the net banged him up, but if physically fit, he wouldn't likely be visiting a "regular" doctor.

[Fedorov]

Psychiatrists are medical doctors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, but they are kind of in the middle. If any testing was done, it would not be done by a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists would also just give him medication and send him on his way. If it was an existing problem, he may have been receiving therapy.

[schmidtdoggydog]

Psychiatrists would also just give him medication and send him on his way

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And tell him to say that he missed games for personal reasons perhaps?

Hard to say . . . .

[Sioux Hockey Fanatic]

There was an interview on the Channel 9 last night, I believe Hirsch's quotes are already mentioned, but his teammates referred to wanting him to get better and that they are treating it like a physical injury. I am a mental health professional and to me it clearly was psychological (or drugs). The team was on a gag order up until this week. I do hope the guys gets help doesn't have any future problems but stress is a big thing when it comes to symptoms of mental health and what could be more stressfull to the #1 goal scorer for the team in the NCAA tourney?

I still hate the Gophers but do feel bad for this guy and his family.

[squirtcoach]

He went into that crossbar pretty hard. If that caused his visit to the doctor, I suppose 'some gopher fan' will accuse Greene of pushing him into it.

[airmail]

After all the speculation, interviews, and internet chatter, I've come to one conclusion:

Tyler's outburst was nothing more than a kid who acted out of line because he got beat. He then rode home with Mom & Dad to continue pouting. After reconsidering his ridiculous actions, he begged to be placed back on the team he walked out on. Lucia possibly not playing him is probably to teach him a valuable lesson about being a member of a team.

Now... this is what it looked like on video, and nobody including himself has come out and said he is having mental/ psycological issues. If that was the case, why wouldn't he want to end all the chatter and speculation?

So, I'm calling it like I see it... a kid got his ass kicked and went home to cry about it.

[dagies]

I'm not going to take Tyler's assessment of the situation or his mental state at face value.

This is a good point.

If everything was okay, then I doubt that Lucia would have Hirsch practicing on the fourth line. It also makes no sense that Lucia would express cautious optimism about Tyler's chances of playing in the Frozen Four.

Just because Tyler thinks everything's back to normal doesn't mean it is. To me, Lucia's words and actions indicate that questions remain.

Only for the sake of continuing the discussion (not necessarily to prove either of us might be right or wrong) I will point out another scenario, one that might fit my original take on things.

Lucia is very good about putting a positive public light on issues within his program. For the moment assume Hirsch's actions were nothing more than what Airmail suggests, the behavior of a frustrated player. Lucia might have him practicing on the 4th line to tell Tyler that he can't just be disrupted and hope to come back to everything being hunky-dory. You have to work your way back into the line-up, kid.

In fact, how many forwards does Lucia have? It would seem if Hirsch is questionable he might be practicing with the 5th line, not the 4th.

Again, PCM, you force me to admit that I read between the lines with my original analysis. And you make a very valid point that what Tyler says publicly MAY not be representative of what he might be dealing with if it is a mentally related situation. So I will keep an open mind as of yet.

[Mad Man]

I might be slow, but that article doesn't give me any facts.  It sounds like he doesn't have the guts to say what happened and we may never know the facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We could always ask Don Adam, if he didn't know I'm sure he would just make some $hit up.

[Sioux-cia]

There was an interview on the Channel 9 last night, I believe Hirsch's quotes are already mentioned, but his teammates referred to wanting him to get better and that they are treating it like a physical injury.  I am a mental health professional and to me it clearly was psychological (or drugs).  The team was on a gag order up until this week.  I do hope the guys gets help doesn't have any future problems but stress is a big thing when it comes to symptoms of mental health and what could be more stressfull to the #1 goal scorer for the team in the NCAA tourney? 

I still hate the Gophers but do feel bad for this guy and his family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Family/primary health care providers treat mental health issues in their patients on a regular basis and prescribe psychotrophic drugs as needed. A reason to have a primary health care provider is to have someone to take care of your 'entire' health care needs. I think Tyler was extremely frustrated and did something in front of a few thousand people that will haunt him for the rest of his life. He won't be remembered as a pretty good hockey player but as the 'nut job who stormed the net'. I don't know why he did it but I think it takes a bit of character to come back after that, face the media and still want to play hockey knowing that he's setting himself up for a lot of ridicule and worse from the fans. That said I hope we kick Gopher a$$! GO SIOUX!!

[Fedorov]

Family/primary health care providers treat mental health issues in their patients on a regular basis and prescribe psychotrophic drugs as needed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They treat them, but not very well. They typically refer to someone more qualified, unless there are no resources available or they need money.

[Fedorov]

I am a mental health professional and to me it clearly was psychological (or drugs). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have more information than the video?

[Fedorov]

I don't know why he did it but I think it takes a bit of character to come back after that, face the media and still want to play hockey knowing that he's setting himself up for a lot of ridicule and worse from the fans. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It takes even more character to admit why it happened, whatever the reason. He is obviously lacking there.

[Sioux-cia]

They treat them, but not very well. They typically refer to someone more qualified, unless there are no resources available or they need money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm

[Fedorov]

Hmm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is true, they are not trained to do it.

[Sioux-cia]

It is true, they are not trained to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't the forum for it but. .. Primary care providers (PCP) do get education and training in mental health issues, treatment, etc. Having a primary health care provider who knows you, your family and past health care problems results in better care for you because you are treated as a whole person not a diagnosis. Admittedly, there are mental health problems best treated by a mental health provider such as psychiatrists and psychologists. Psychologists are great but they have to send the patient back to their primary care provider for a prescription or refer them to a psychiatrist for a prescription because in most states psychologists cannot write prescriptions. The PCP is then responsible for monitoring the patient for side effects, etc. The psychiatrist in this type of scenario does not do a comprehensive evaluation of the patient while a PCP will. Psychiatrists rely on psychologists and PCPs to treat many mental health issues and in many cases they all work together.

[CMH]

implies some mental health issues. (Note it says doctors, not doctor) It clearly appears that he doesn't have any physical ailments that would require a doctor's visit, if he was just dinged up he would say so. And I would venture a guess that he wasn't meeting with a cardiologist or peditrician or dermatologist, etc. . . . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a former Athletic Training student, I just feel like I should throw this in here. Most college athletes have several doctors, whether they want them or not. They have their family doctor they've been going to their whole lives, and Tyler is from the cities so family doctor is accessible. Than they have the team doctors. And there are several, there are your MDs, chiropracters, dentists, surgeons, etc all who get tickets to all the games. Chances are several of them had something to say.

[Sioux Hockey Fanatic]

[sports4life]

On the other hand this is really bad time to be setting examples with your star player.

Way too set an example hirsh, can see it really paid off in the 3rd place game(or wait that game had no meaning anyways)

Those Gophers really want to get another National Cahmpionship to brag about.

FAT CHANCE, GO SIOUX

[Blackheart]

After all the speculation, interviews, and internet chatter, I've come to one conclusion:

Tyler's outburst was nothing more than a kid who acted out of line because he got beat.  He then rode home with Mom & Dad to continue pouting.  After reconsidering his ridiculous actions, he begged to be placed back on the team he walked out on.  Lucia possibly not playing him is probably to teach him a valuable lesson about being a member of a team.

Now... this is what it looked like on video, and nobody including himself has come out and said he is having mental/ psycological issues.  If that was the case, why wouldn't he want to end all the chatter and speculation? 

So, I'm calling it like I see it... a kid got his ass kicked and went home to cry about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

I remember that a bunch of the Goofy fans were giving us a hard time over how the Matt Greene incident was handled and we all pointed out that unlike their team the Sioux didn't try to hide or cover things up. Of course they all denied that this was the case to which I say the Proof is in the Pudding. We will likely never know the whole story behind the Hirsch incident so instead there will always be the speculation. So rodent fans, if the rumours and signs you see are considered unwelcome or seem cruel, too bad because it is your own program's fault.