Mascot? What mascot?

[PCM]

I guess if Dan Rather can build a story around fake memos, the SCSU University Chronicle can do a story about a nonexistent mascot.

[jloos]

I guess if Dan Rather can build a story around fake memos, the SCSU University Chronicle can do a story about a nonexistent mascot.     

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Media Credit: Joshua Fox

Demonstrators stand outside the south entrance at Husky Stadium protesting the use of the UND mascot the Fighting Souix.

A group of protesters gathered at Saturday's football game between SCSU and the University of North Dakota to object UND's use of the Fighting Souix mascot

This Souix team must have been in St. Cloud the same time as the Sioux.

"No university should have this," Bad Heart Bull said. "It doesn't happen with Blacks or Latinos or Asians. We are just as much people. They think that this is honoring because they say it is. We should decide what is honoring and this is not honoring to us."

I guess the San Diego State Aztecs are named after the car, not the people. I wonder what the Notre Dame Fighting Irish are named after? PCM, your name sounds Irish, I think we should organize a protest against Notre Dame.

I guess the PC groups decided to lump mascot and logo together.

[Flatland]

Yeah, they almost always do this. I showed up in St. Cloud just in the off chance of getting in (I live nearby). Fortunately, the new stadium is ridiculous with seats only on the one side, so I watched from the fence. (Better seats than the people in the stands) The screwed up thing is that we were "requested" to leave to the north side of the field while they were having their protest where we wanted to watch the game. Obviously, I didn't pay to watch the game, but I had just as much right to stand there as they did.

I should have had a "Go Sioux" poster and stood there and seen if anybody noticed.

[ScottM]

As with most of their protests, I wonder how many protestors were actually part of the SCCC community. They seem to have a history of trucking in carpetbaggers from GF, MSP, etc., to bolster their numbers. Moreover, I wonder how many people, outside of Saigo and his own blustering cadre of idiots, actually care what the protestors were doing, or what UND does for that matter.

On a somewhat related note, I recently read in the Chicago Sun-Times that Marquette University is considering, at the trustee level, changing its name back to "Warriors". Naturally, that is generating some heat with the PC crowd and the academics, but it is interesting that the idea has gained traction at that level.

[Goon]

PCM, your name sounds Irish, I think we should organize a protest against Notre Dame. 

Isn't Miller a name that was orginally German as in Meuler?

[PCM]

Isn't Miller a name that was orginally German as in Meuler?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got Irish, Swedish, German and English in me. There's no end to the things I could protest.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I've got Irish, Swedish, German and English in me. There's no end to the things I could protest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm quite a mix too, Finnish, Swedish, German and Bohemian! These people in St. Cloud are such clowns it's unbelieveble. You'd think they would look up how to spell the word "SIOUX". It is as simple as running spellcheck on their cheap campus computer they wrote the story on. In my opinion, it is a disrespect to spell the name wrong. Ignore these people in St. Cloud. They have their own racist allegations to deal with on campus...but I won't get into that. Maybe someone else could dig up the stories from the past few years.

[Norseman]

I just wanted to point out the big difference between the Fighting Sioux nickname and nicknames like the Fighting Irish and the Vikings, which a lot of people don't seem to understand. Many people say that "I'm Irish/Scandinavian, and I don't take offense from the Fighting Irish/Vikings nickname". Of course you don't, why should you??

Notre Dame was founded by catholics and throughout the university's history it has had a close connection to Irish-Americans. I've read about the many versions of how the Fighting Irish nickname was adopted, but the point is that the university and the Irish majority there (I'm not sure if there were many non Irish-Americans attending the school at the time..) decided to adopt the nickname as it described and symbolized the institution's history and the people belonging to it very well.

When it comes to the Minnesota Vikings I read that the first general manager of the team suggested the name since it was warrior-like and represented the many Scandinavians and the Scandinavian traditions in Minnesota. I'm not sure if there has ever been any protests against this nickname, but I doubt it. Even though Scandinavians today can say that they are ancestors from the Vikings, they have difficulties to identify themselves with the people who lived during the Viking era. The vikings were mostly conquering other lands and peoples; killing men, women, children, munks and nuns; raping women, children and nuns (and who knows..probably men and munks as well...); burning down houses and villages; and stealing and robbing everything they laid their eyes on. The Vikings nickname refers to these warrior-vikings, who roamed around from 900-1100 AD- about 1000 years ago. So most Scandinavians wouldn't feel offended about the nickname since it represents a group of people and a way of living that in a sense doesn't exist anymore. And, the vikings were the ones who did the bad things; the vikings were not the victims.

The Fighting Sioux nickname however is very different. It was adopted by UND when I'm sure very few Native Americans attended the university (if any), and it was adopted at a time when Native Americans had little rights and probably did not have a big say in the matter. A lot of people say that the nickname was adopted to honor the Sioux, but I'm not sure if Native Americans were looked upon in high regard by the people at the time. I'm sure the Fighting Sioux nickname was chosen as it represented something aggressive and warrior-like, which perhaps is not how the Sioux view themselves. Also, while the Vikings "don't exist" anymore, the Sioux people still exists.

This reply was way too long and I'm not sure that I got my thoughts across very well - I apologize for that. However, my point is that the Fighting Irish nickname was adopted by Irish-Americans, the Vikings nickname was adopted by Scandinavian-Americans, but the Fighting Sioux nickname was not adopted by the Sioux. It's great that many Sioux people like the name and feel that it honours them, but it is also important to listen to those Sioux people who feel offended.

And to all the Irish-Americans and Scandinavian-Americans out there; don't whine and complain about the Fighting Irish and Vikings nicknames...you gave the nickname to yourselves!

[fightonsioux]

GRAND FORKS HERALD

Copyright © 2001, Grand Forks Herald

TAG: 0103250143

LENGTH: 75 lines

DATE: Sunday, March 25, 2001

EDITION: FINAL

SECTION: D-OPINION

PAGE: 03

COLUMN: VIEWPOINT

SOURCE: Brenda Red Tomahawk

UND NICKNAME, PATROL EMBLEM SYMBOLIZE PRIDE

GRAND FORKS

In his Viewpoint about the Fighting Sioux nickname, Gordon Caldis mentioned the North Dakota Highway Patrol emblem and road signs (Legal arguments against UND nickname lack merit, Page 4A, Feb. 22).

These signs are of my great-grandfather, Tacanipiluta, Marcellus Red Tomahawk. He was a Blackfeet band member from Montana and an enrolled member of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.

Long ago on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation, Sitting Bull was arrested and Marcellus was one of the individuals sent to assist. History tell us of the events that took place, but we are not certain exactly what occurred. In any event, Marcellus acted with great leadership and gained control of the situation until other help arrived. For this, he gained media attention and was invited to many government functions.

At the state Legislature, he spoke in his native language through an interpreter, and expressed his concern for Standing Rock. Many times, he accompanied President Herbert Hoover in travels abroad, met famous people and participated in symbolic government gestures.

He lived a very colorful life, and it was national news when he passed on in August 1927. North Dakota legislators asked to bury him on the Capitol grounds in honor for his contributions to the state. But his family's cry was greater, and he was buried among his people.

The Highway Patrol chose to use his profile on their emblem to symbolize his heroism. The road department uses his profile to show all travelers that the notable Sioux warrior, who was recognized as a peace negotiator in North Dakota, is guiding them.

As a Sioux, I am proud of my Indian heritage and not offended by the UND controversy.

As Sioux, we will face obstacles such as prejudice in our everyday life, but we need to keep a positive attitude. We do not need to get radical or resort to hostility to promote change.

Let's create positive cultural awareness and educate those discriminating about the sensitivity of this issue.

Because of the UND nickname, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe has threatened to boycott the university and prohibit tribal members from attending. This is absolutely absurd. By boycotting, we are denying our youth the right to broaden their educational horizons at a prestigious college such as UND. We should encourage our youth to make their own college decision and not make it for them.

If they chose UND, let it be, as it is certainly a college where they will be given every opportunity to succeed.

By choosing UND, students certainly will get more than their money's worth, and it will be a wise investment. As an alumna, I recommend that prospective students come see for themselves. Do not let anyone or anything influence you until you have visited the campus. The annual Time Out powwow is coming up soon, and it's a great time to visit.

The term Sioux or Fighting Sioux is used to distinguish UND's great athletic teams. In return, more educational programs should be implemented for our youth. We have many talented youth who have the potential of becoming great Indian athletes such as Jim Thorp or Billy Mills.

With inspiration and educational nourishment, our students can achieve their goals to become Sioux champions. Such an achievement would make a huge impact on our youth and would deter negative problems such as underage drinking and self-destruction.

It seems to me that if this is a university honoring the Sioux, all means should be taken to invite and encourage the Sioux to become champions among their own people.

I admit there have been problems in the past, but remedies have been taken to correct those. Many informative meetings were held in efforts to find solutions to amend previous relations. But these past problems keep resurfacing to be used as racist tools to change UND's name and logo.

We will not create awareness by changing the name and logo. We only will diminish the Sioux's popularity. All over the United States, there are many Indian tribes who would pay to have all the national recognition the Sioux or Fighting Sioux receive.

Let's stop tarnishing UND's reputation. We are wasting valuable time and resources.

[fightonsioux]

GRAND FORKS HERALD

Copyright © 2001, Grand Forks Herald

TAG: 0110060104

LENGTH: 99 lines

DATE: Saturday, October 6, 2001

EDITION: FINAL

SECTION: A

PAGE: 01

ILLUSTRATION: John Stennes, staff photographer

SOURCE: Ryan Bakken, Herald Staff Writer

WITH DRUMMING, DANCING, SINGING ...

HOCKEY `PALACE' DEDICATED, STATUE OF SIOUX WARRIOR UNVEILED

American Indians played lead roles in Friday morning's dedication of the Ralph Engelstad Arena.

With drumming, dancing and singing, they provided the entertainment.

And, with an impressive cast of politicians and other influential people reduced to spectator status, two of the four speakers were American Indians. Erik Enno and Greg Holy Bull, both Fighting Sioux nickname supporters who live in Grand Forks, joined former UND Foundation and Alumni Association executive director Earl Strinden and former UND president Tom Clifford in providing remarks.

Much of what was said concerned their support for UND's nickname and new logo. They used the event as a forum for a counterpoint to the recent criticism of Engelstad and UND by newspapers and magazines, most notably Sports Illustrated. It also served as a counterpoint to the conference being held simultaneously at UND that opposes Indian team names and mascots.

The perception out there is that all Native Americans feel like they're victims and do not support the continued use of the name, Enno said. I'm here to tell you that's not true.

We are not victims. We are proud people. Thank you, Mr. Engelstad, for building this lasting tribute to our people.

Holy Bull drummed and sang several songs, including what he called the Lakota flag song and national anthem. He wore a sweatshirt bearing the new Sioux logo.

We honor you with the eagle staff, Holy Bull said. It carries feathers of great importance. They have been prayed over.

Strinden, who worked with Engelstad in securing the gift of $100 million for the arena, said the Sioux nickname is used for the right reasons.

Where we now stand was once part of the Sioux Nation, Strinden said. The Sioux were known for their courage, for overcoming adversity, for winning battles, for their honor and their pride. In 1930, UND chose their nickname because it would show courage, overcoming adversity, winning battles, honor and pride.

Jeremiah Holy Bull, Greg's son, and Bryan Akipa, a Lakota from Sisseton, S.D., performed several warrior dances.

Engelstad attended the dedication, but did not speak. Dressed in canvas shoes and a Budweiser logo jacket against the biting cold wind, he stood throughout the 45-minute festivities.

STATUE UNVEILED

The bronze statue unveiled outside the arena Friday morning is of a Sioux warrior on a black pony. The statue is dedicated to Sitting Bull but does not depict the Sioux leader.

Enno, Holy Bull and new Sioux logo artist Ben Brien have been working on the statue to make it more authentically Sioux.

We added the staff, a flag of the great Sioux nation, Enno said. There are other things we need to do creatively with the statue. We'll do more in the spring.

Mr. Engelstad purchased it with the understanding it is not a finished piece.

Engelstad purchased the life-size statue about eight months ago at an auction. The horse and rider together stand 8 feet, 2 inches high. With the base and pedestal, the statue is 211/2 feet high and 20 feet wide.

The statue's plaque inscription about Sitting Bull reads: Undisputed leader of the Sioux Nation. Patriot, Statesman, Diplomat, Warrior, Prophet. A man born to greatness, and to whom was born the destiny to lead and protect his people.

Clyde Bellecourt and several other participants from the nickname conference attended the dedication. But there was no interruption of the event. Bellecourt left shortly after the statue was uncovered.

Shortly after the statue was uncovered, the crowd of about 500 people went to the front lobby. Clifford spoke about Engelstad as a personal friend and a friend to UND.

Then a ribbon bearing the Sioux logo was cut and a life-size bronze statue of Engelstad was uncovered. The statue was donated by local businesses and individuals.

Politicians and state and civic leaders attending the event included Gov. John Hoeven and former Gov. Ed Schafer. Engelstad's 200-person delegation, which arrived in Grand Forks Thursday afternoon, includes his wife, Betty; his daughter, Kris McGarry, and his grandson, Sean McGarry.

Engelstad speaks

Engelstad did speak briefly at the noon luncheon held in the Olympic-size arena adjacent to the main arena. The luncheon was attended by close to 1,000 invitees.

I'm glad I was lucky enough to be able to do what I did, Engelstad said. I hope it's an inspiration so that students here now or in the future, if they get as lucky as me, will be able to do the same thing.

A procession of individuals gave one-minute statements of thanks to Ralph and Betty Engelstad. They were representatives of UND athletics, the student body, the Sioux Boosters, East Grand Forks city, Grand Forks city, the Higher Education Board, the Legislature, the UND Foundation and Alumni Association, and Schafer.

Sometimes, North Dakota suffers from an image problem, Schafer said. But this building will lead the way for people to be proud of and others to be jealous of. This facility will forever change the face of this area.

Bakken reports on local news and writes a column. Reach him at 780-1125, (800) 477-6572, ext. 125, or rbakken@gfherald.com.

[fightonsioux]

GRAND FORKS HERALD

Copyright © 2000, Grand Forks Herald

TAG: 0012190054

LENGTH: 76 lines

DATE: Tuesday, December 19, 2000

EDITION: FINAL

SECTION: A

PAGE: 01

ILLUSTRATION: John Stennes, staff photographer

COLUMN: SIOUX NICKNAME

SOURCE: Michael Benedict, Herald Staff Writer

CULTURAL COHESION

MORE THAN 500 CELEBRATE SIOUX SYMBOL IN RALLY ON UND CAMPUS

People from shared but distinct cultures gathered Monday evening and told UND to keep its Fighting Sioux nickname.

That message was presented at a pro-nickname/cultural awareness rally at UND's Hyslop Sports Center. More than 500 people attended the event, hyped in local media advertisements since early last week.

Our culture identifies well with athletes, said Erik Enno, an event organizer, who is an enrolled member in North Dakota's Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa.

Enno also refers to himself as part Sioux.

He said Native American people honor warriors - and, he said, athletes are warriors, too.

The things we are doing are positive, and it's never too late to do it, Enno said of recent comments that his efforts are too little, too late.

He said the recent cultural awareness activities that he's helped organize have reached more than 10,000 people in two weeks. The actions have presented people with a positive message about the nickname and Native American culture, he said.

THE RALLY

Besides Enno, Greg Holy Bull and David Demontigny were instrumental in recent culture awareness/pro-nickname activities.

They've formed a group called the Millennium Committee for Understanding and Respect and plan to continue to spread their message at UND and elsewhere. Meanwhile, the majority of Native American program leaders on campus have signed a statement opposing the Fighting Sioux nickname.

I think things like this will help regardless of the name, said Chris Lennon, who attended the event. I thought it was beautiful. It was inspiring, kind of emotional.

Five people are now members of this committee.

To spread their message, about a dozen Native American people from different tribes took part in Monday's rally, which was led with an introduction by UND Athletic Director Roger Thomas.

As you know, much has been said about this issue, Thomas said of the controversy surrounding the continued use of the nickname. We're here tonight to have a program of respect and understanding.

The event was choreographed by Holy Bull, who spoke about Native American culture, sang and played a traditional drum as other Native Americans, dressed in regalia, danced and performed during the show.

A prayer

As with a similar event held for UND athletics, a Spirit Lake spiritual leader said a prayer in both the Dakota and English languages.

This evening when I pray, I pray for everyone, said Ambrose Little Ghost, the Spirit Lake spiritual leader. We do not make distinctions about people.

Little Ghost said he's neutral about the nickname issue. As a spiritual leader, he has said, he can't take a stand on the issue.

He said, however, the Fighting Sioux name no longer is considered derogatory; Sioux was originally part of an Ojibwe name that meant snake.

One hundred years ago, if you would have called me a Sioux, I would have had your scalp, he said. That was then. This is now. I pray for the good of everyone.

The event also was attended by another Spirit Lake dignitary, Ivy Longie, a Dakota girl, who is Spirit Lake's Traveling Princess.

She danced with six other Native American people during Monday's event.

When the program was completed, Holy Bull and other participants thanked the crowd. So did UND men's basketball coach Rich Glas.

Some people say it's too little, too late, but I totally disagree, Glas said of understanding the events. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, it's never too late to do the right thing.

We are the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux and damn proud to give you (Sioux people) tribute every time we step onto the court, he added.

[ethanm]

From the Oct. 11,2004 SI's Go Figure section

9% of Native Americans find the Washington Redskins' nickname offensive, according to a University of Pennsylvania poll.

I'd have to say I was surprised at how low that number is given that there is a negative image attached to the Redskins nickname.

[ethanm]

And to all the Irish-Americans and Scandinavian-Americans out there; don't whine and complain about the Fighting Irish and Vikings nicknames...you gave the nickname to yourselves!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being of a Norwegian-Swedish background, I'm offended about the use of the Vikings nickname since the NFL team protrays them not as a fearless, savage warriors but as a group who chokes when the battles/games really count. Maybe that's why I'm not a MN Vikings fan.

[Smoggy]

Norseman,

Maybe I'm wrong on this and maybe it's been said before, but about six years ago when the name was a huge issue, I believe it was printed that the Tribal Chiefs gave their blessing to the Fighting Sioux name back in the 20s(?). If this is true, then our name is as acceptable as the Vikings and Fighting Irish.

[MafiaMan]

jloos,

You're incorrect about San Diego State's use of the word "Aztecs." Actually, there has been a lot of controversy stirred up over the use of the nickname and Aztec logo. I believe SDSU has discontinued use of the Aztec logo while retaining the nickname as part of an effort to slow down the "change the name" groups working against them. The name stands, but you don't see any Aztec warrior logos around anymore, unfortunately.

[MafiaMan]

ESPN Picture/Article on SDSU Logo Change

[MafiaMan]

New SDSU Logo vs Old SDSU Logo

Here's the new vs old logo. No question which is better.

[Riverman]

New SDSU Logo vs Old SDSU Logo

Here's the new vs old logo.  No question which is better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just my .02

The pc's win again....

I cannot believe people look down on their history and ancestry!

(And soon as I find a great Highland Warrior for an AV I will be even happier!)

If we are to ask today how many Sioux feel the use of their ancestry is portrayed it seems to me that many favor the logo and nickname as per Herald articles and the polls that ESPN did.I believe these are the people we should be listening to not a bunch of white good-nicks who tell everyone how they should feel!

ps Thanks Fightonsioux for the Herald articles...

psX2 Norseman,The Norse slaughtered many Celts in their domination of Europe. History is history, I forgive you and your ancestry...