The Division I Question? New Answer?

[bisonguy]

Found this Golden Oldie of NCC schools looking at DI-Information being gathered on possible Divison I switch

Note, that this is when Bob Entzion was still the NDSU AD-

From 08/18/1999-

Last week, Division I-AA Big Sky Conference Commissioner Doug Fullerton met in Fargo with officials from all 10 Division II North Central Conference universities to discuss moves to that conference.

Maybe NDSU/SDSU/UNC/UND in the Big Sky has been in the works for years?

In Steve Hallstroms weekly talks to Big Sky schools, he reported last week that the coaches and AD's of the Big Sky are in favor of adding three or four schools.

[UND92,96]

Are you guys actually saying that the school that didn't originally want to go D-I (UND) is better off financially to make a move than the school that wanted to immediately jump to D-I (SDSU).

[GCWaters]

Are you guys actually saying that the school that didn't originally want to go D-I (UND) is better off financially to make a move than the school that wanted to immediately jump to D-I (SDSU).  Thats an interesting theory.  So you know, SDSU already has a plan to be at 63 in 2009.  The scholarships are going to go up much faster after this year, because this year they used money to make sure they were title 9 complient.  If heard that the scholarships are probably going to go up faster than originally anticipated also, because the endowment is already half finished.  What makes you guys think that UND has the money to make 60 scholarshps in 3 years?  If they did, why didn't they move with NDSU?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't making a DI move increase UND's hockey revenues? If I remember the article correctly, UND's take from the hockey national championship series is limited to travel money because the institution as a whole isn't DI...if they went DI and made the playoffs, their share would increase, which could help fund scholies...

[aff]

Wow, SDSU is in Sioux Falls? When did this happen?  There's a lot of UND fans in Fargo, too. So what? UND is in Grand Forks. SDSU is in Brookings. End of story. The only thing that saved Brookings from being the worst town in the NCC was Vermillion.

The only thing that the big sky cares about for cities is population in a proximity to the area, so they know that there will be a decent population base, and business base, so that there is the ability of the school to sell tickets. I think that Sioux Falls more than provides this to SDSU. If you don't believe me, look at last weeks argus leader where they are using SDSU bringing bball games to sioux falls as a reason they need a new convention center. To say that "SDSU is in brookings, and thats not as good as X, so they won't get into the big sky" is stupid.

[aff]

So basically what you're saying is that the first school to go dI must necessarily be the most financially capable? I think you'd have a hard time convincing anybody other than SDSU fans that SDSU is more financially capable than UND to make the jump. I guess that means UNC was the most financially capable of all since they went a year earlier than NDSU and SDSU.

So, what your saying is that SDSU isn't going to get into the big sky because they aren't financially ready, but UND, who is less prepared because of lack of planning, women's hockey etc. is going to get in? Genius. I can't believe the crap I read on this site.

[Bisonfan1234]

I think all 4 ex-NCC teams will get in, making the 8 team BSC into a two division 12 team BSC.

Of course, Sac State could try and join San Jose State in the IA ranks which would make it an 11 team conference assuming Portland State doesn't also leave.

[Smoggy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't making a DI move increase UND's hockey revenues? If I remember the article correctly, UND's take from the hockey national championship series is limited to travel money because the institution as a whole isn't DI...if they went DI and made the playoffs, their share would increase, which could help fund scholies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe you are right, and that is why I think UND will ultimately make the decision to go to DI. Hockey is the breadwinner and would be even more so in DI.

[Bisonfan1234]

I see UND joining UNH and UME as top ranked hockey programs with great IAA football teams as well.

[RD17]

So, what your saying is that SDSU isn't going to get into the big sky because they aren't financially ready, but UND, who is less prepared because of lack of planning, women's hockey etc. is going to get in? Genius. I can't believe the crap I read on this site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please, think a little bit. The focus of most conferences (including the Big Sky) is football. Which football program would you rather have in your conference- UND or SDSU? The only circumstance under which you'd answer SDSU is if you're looking for a potential dormat.

If you're not willing to admit that UND would offer the Big Sky (especially assuming that NDSU gets in) many, many advantages over SDSU, you're not being honest with yourself.

[SiouxMeNow]

To all the folks that want every UND thought process to go out as a press release to all the world's media, here's how the Big Sky does business:

Seems like the Big Sky does business like UND: Quietly until it has studied things and thought them through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent observation Sicatoka!

[Corella]

Please, think a little bit. The focus of most conferences (including the Big Sky) is football. Which football program would you rather have in your conference- UND or SDSU? The only circumstance under which you'd answer SDSU is if you're looking for a potential dormat.

If you're not willing to admit that UND would offer the Big Sky (especially assuming that NDSU gets in) many, many advantages over SDSU, you're not being honest with yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said RD17. I have said it over and over again, the Big Sky is a football conference, foremost, second most, and third most. If they are going to add a team, they are not going to add one team with a football program that has not even been respectable within their conference in 20 years, one that has not even so much as shown progression. They would add the team that BEST FITS THEIR CONFERENCE PROFILE. UND or SDSU??? Now, if we were talking like the Big West, or the Missouri Valley, conferences better known for basketball then football (the MVC has no football), then perhaps SDSU would have a leg up (but then again maybe not), but the Big Sky is what is being talked about. Any fan who cannot see the logic in that is way too blinded by their own biases.

[Bisonfan1234]

The BSC is gaining respect in bball as well. I think they have big plans for bball and that is definately where SDSU would earn it's pay.

[star2city]

while some posters may disagree nothing seismic has happened in the last few months to change anything

...

the open invitation for letters of interest by the Big Sky is about the only thing that's happened and that shouldn't be huge news as they have had varied membership for years

I'm awaiting press stories to tell me what's been happening at UND

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IowaBison:

Don't kid yourself. There have been major changes within the last six months to change the situation:

First, the NCAA probation period for basketball was reduced from thirteen (13) years to 5 years if the school is accepted into a qualifying conference - that is huge and removes one of the onerous requirements that Kupchella was concerned with.

Second, the ripples from the Big East expansion finally affected the West. The Big Sky's existence is threatened by the WAC, if it takes more teams. Until the WAC took Idaho, the Big Sky had the Vandals in their back pocket if they needed them.

Until this past summer, the Big Sky had no stability concerns. Now the Big Sky will be wobbling if it loses one team and dead as a qualifying conference if it loses two teams. With San Jose State's I-A football status in jeopardy, the WAC will take at least one Big Sky team (and maybe two - Montana and Sac State being the main candidates) if the Spartans are forced to drop out of the WAC.

[star2city]

So, what your saying is that SDSU isn't going to get into the big sky because they aren't financially ready, but UND, who is less prepared because of lack of planning, women's hockey etc. is going to get in?  Genius.  I can't believe the crap I read on this site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aff:

Maybe you need to take your argument to Kolpack and the Fargo Forum. They're the ones putting out the "crap" that you find distasteful. Here's Kolpack's quote from yesterday:

1. Was NDSU told not to get too close to South Dakota State as a potential travel partner?

[star2city]

Well said RD17.  I have said it over and over again, the Big Sky is a football conference, foremost, second most, and third most.  If they are going to add a team, they are not going to add one team with a football program that has not even been respectable within their conference in 20 years, one that has not even so much as shown progression.  They would add the team that BEST FITS THEIR CONFERENCE PROFILE.  UND or SDSU???  Now, if we were talking like the Big West, or the Missouri Valley, conferences better known for basketball then football (the MVC has no football), then perhaps SDSU would have a leg up (but then again maybe not), but the Big Sky is what is being talked about.  Any fan who cannot see the logic in that is way too blinded by their own biases.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I agree that the Big Sky conference is football-oriented, expansion is a necessity to protect their basketball bid. There are at least two schools who are more basketball focused than football: Weber State and Idaho State (who once made the Elite Eight).

In the Portland Tribune, there was this article:

Big Sky Conference Commissioner Doug Fullerton says the conference is exploring expanding from eight schools to as many as 12 in the next two years.

Earlier, Fullerton has been quoted as saying that they would expand by from one to three schools. Now they are talking of adding four schools, to twelve. Why the change? The Portland article also mentions Cal-Davis, which wasn't previously in the scene. At least four current BSC schools are known to have ambitions to play I-A football (Sac State, Portland State, NAU, and Montana). Geographically, Sac State, NAU, and Portland State aren't all that pleased with the concept of adding schools east of the Rockies.

Curiously, a month or so ago, Phil Harmeson of UND was quoted as saying something to the effect of going I-A in football, rather than just I-AA. Harmeson also mentioned about adding a horseshoe to the Alerus so that there would be 17,000 seats, which would allow the potential for 15,000 attendance, the I-A football requirement.

So what is a solution that makes all the schools happy:

expand to 12 with east and west divisions with the intent of being I-A in football sometime in the early 2010's.

Here is a scenario that make geographic and strategic sense:

Big Sky South: Sac State/Portland State/NAU/Weber State/Cal Poly/UC-Davis

Big Sky North: Montana/Montana State/E Wash/Idaho State/UND/NDSU

Add Cal Poly in 2006, Cal-Davis in 2007, NDSU in 2008, UND in 2009 (admission dates vary because only Cal-Poly is fully eligible)

Cal Poly, Cal-Davis, and even NDSU all have aspirations of playing IA football someday. The schools that would have difficulty would be E Wash and Idaho State (and UND without the expanded Alerus - hence Harmeson's comments).

Flame away

[Bisonfan1234]

There is also the possibility that the BSC as a whole would move up to IA.

I can't believe you people are still hung up on this 15000 average attendence nonsense. It's never going to be enforeced, it's a joke.

I don't see why the BSC would even want to keep Sac State around. Let them dream their crazy WAC dreams just like San Jose State.

Sac State might even drop football and join the Big West, who knows.

I agree that the Big Sky needs to and will protect its autobid eligibility in fb and bb by expanding.

Right now, I'm counting Sac State out of the BSC which drops them to 7.

That means they could add up to 5 teams to reach 12 or 3 for 10.

NDSU, SDSU, UND, UNC, and SUU are all possible candidates.

This is first time, however, that I've ever heard of Cal Poly being interested in the Sky. I think them being in the Big West and Sac State possibly joining them there and dropping football would make CP consider doing the same like so many other CSU schools have done.

[aff]

Aff:

Maybe you need to take your argument to Kolpack and the Fargo Forum. They're the ones putting out the "crap" that you find distasteful. Here's Kolpack's quote from yesterday:

I don't have any problem with Kolpack (Even though hes an idiot) and the forum, beucase the quote was refered to under "Rumors flying around the northern plains". I have no problem admitting that it is a rumor, as you can read on this forum. I do have a problem when people start refering to this rumor as a fact as several people have on this forum.

This whole rumor was started by someone in North Dakota, maybe Kolpack himself, that wants desperately to see the UND/NDSU rivalry reinstated, and doesn't have any problem coming up with an number illogical ways that it could occur.

[Bisonfan1234]

Aff, rest easy, I believe the BSC, which wants to upgrade it's bball profile, will add SDSU for that reason.

[siouxjoy]

Aff, rest easy, I believe the BSC, which wants to upgrade it's bball profile, will add SDSU for that reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keeping with the theme of the last few posts (UND vs. SDSU in appeal to BSC), I am not real sure you can say that SDSU has a big edge over UND, relating to basketball.

[aff]

Keeping with the theme of the last few posts (UND vs. SDSU in appeal to BSC), I am not real sure you can say that SDSU has a big edge over UND, relating to basketball.

We must be on a UND site to read that. You lost to Mary by 30 last season. SDSU has an arena almost double your size, newly remodled inside, 4th most appearances all time post season, the most NCC championships of any school, the only national championship, and thats just for the men.

Not that any of that matters. Do you really think the big sky is going to pick schools based on this season, or the past 5, or past 10? No, there going to pick according to the financial ability of the schools to compete, how the school fits in academically with the other schools, and the geography (Amazing how those are the three criteria they already laid out). I didn't ever hear them say the criteria were 1. # football national championships 2. Basketball Championships 3. Overall conference football record last 10 seasons, yet some of you think that those are the criteria. What advantage does UND have over SDSU that would make the big sky throw SDSU, a school already commited to D-I away, and go after UND, a D-II school? UND is screwed for funding with womens hockey, plus adding other sports to sponsor all big sky sports, plus adding scholarships. Thats why they didn't go D-I with SDSU and NDSU, and thats why the big sky isn't "recruiting" UND.

And Starcity, Davis and Poly have already been offered a big sky invite, and both turned it down. That isn't going to change any time soon. The four schools that will/ might be added are UNC, SDSU, NDSU, SUU. UND isn't in there no matter how many times you guys say it is on this board.

[Bisonfan1234]

Just thinking out loud here.

SCSU has really done a good job turning around their football team. Their basketball team is good and their hockey team at least makes money (right?).

Any chance that they could go DI?

[siouxjoy]

We must be on a UND site to read that. You lost to Mary by 30 last season. SDSU has an arena almost double your size, newly remodled inside, 4th most appearances all time post season, the most NCC championships of any school, the only national championship, and thats just for the men.

Not that any of that matters. Do you really think the big sky is going to pick schools based on this season, or the past 5, or past 10? No, there going to pick according to the financial ability of the schools to compete, how the school fits in academically with the other schools, and the geography (Amazing how those are the three criteria they already laid out). I didn't ever hear them say the criteria were 1. # football national championships 2. Basketball Championships 3. Overall conference football record last 10 seasons, yet some of you think that those are the criteria. What advantage does UND have over SDSU that would make the big sky throw SDSU, a school already commited to D-I away, and go after UND, a D-II school? UND is screwed for funding with womens hockey, plus adding other sports to sponsor all big sky sports, plus adding scholarships. Thats why they didn't go D-I with SDSU and NDSU, and thats why the big sky isn't "recruiting" UND.

And Starcity, Davis and Poly have already been offered a big sky invite, and both turned it down. That isn't going to change any time soon. The four schools that will/ might be added are UNC, SDSU, NDSU, SUU. UND isn't in there no matter how many times you guys say it is on this board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, stop freaking out dude.

First of all, when you go to a website called siouxsports.com, it is going to be a UND site with (sometimes biased) UND fans.

Second of all, I did not state that UND has a better basketball history than SDSU, all I said was that the gap between SDSU and UND relating to basketball isn't that big. FOR EXAMPLE: the claim of Frost Arena being a better/bigger arena than what UND offers isn't all that true. The Betty Engelstad Sioux Center holds 4000, but the Ralph (where all of the NCC games will be this year) holds quite a bit more than the remodeled (and probably very nice) Frost Arena.

So you say recent seasons don't matter, but bring up the UND mens' most recent season (yeah we lost to Mary, and yeah this last season was disappointing...how about SDSU's most reason season...any disappointment there?).

Want to compare UND and SDSU women's teams?

Do you really think the people posting believe that Big Sky is going to come knocking on Roger Thomas's office door and invite UND tomorrow? It's just an online discussion!

I usually don't even bother to post, because I don't want to ruin good conversations with one-sided opinions (I am one of those biased fans)

[IowaBison]

IowaBison:

Don't kid yourself. There have been major changes within the last six months to change the situation:

First, the NCAA probation period for basketball was reduced from thirteen (13) years to 5 years if the school is accepted into a qualifying conference - that is huge and removes one of the onerous requirements that Kupchella was concerned with.

Second, the ripples from the Big East expansion finally affected the West. The Big Sky's existence is threatened by the WAC, if it takes more teams. Until the WAC took Idaho, the Big Sky had the Vandals in their back pocket if they needed them.

Until this past summer, the Big Sky had no stability concerns. Now the Big Sky will be wobbling if it loses one team and dead as a qualifying conference if it loses two teams. With San Jose State's I-A football status in jeopardy, the WAC will take at least one Big Sky team (and maybe two - Montana and Sac State being the main candidates) if the Spartans are forced to drop out of the WAC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'll take your first point, but neither UND nor NDSU is going to make it to the big dance barring a real shakeup somewhere

#2 Idaho was/is never going to move back down, you sound like a delusional Grizzly Fan

#3 The Big Sky has long seen teams come and go, check their history. Sac State will likely be moving to the Big West, but this isn't big news, those of us who have been following DIAA for a little while know this stuff first hand. Also, my own feeling toward San Jose State is that they will probably drop football. Montana, is happy where it is, they've seen their old rival Idaho become a shell of its former self after their move.

[IowaBison]

Keeping with the theme of the last few posts (UND vs. SDSU in appeal to BSC), I am not real sure you can say that SDSU has a big edge over UND, relating to basketball.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you serious, you don't think that SDSU has an advantage over you in basketball?

[siouxjoy]

Are you serious, you don't think that SDSU has an advantage over you in basketball?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was actually trying to be "neutral" and not just sound like a big old homer, I don't think that SDSU has an edge, but you can see how aff reacted, even with me being polite.