NCAA probation period lowered

[Bisonfan1234]

Perhaps UND will move up in 3 years or so.

[jloos]

This is good news for SU, I really hope the football team does well, although I still think going D1AA was a bad move. When I saw this on the news (ch.11) the sports guy said "they are shortening the BB period from 13 to 5 years, now we could see the Bison in the NCAA BB tourny in 5 years". I'm still laughing at that comment. When was the last time NDSU was in a DII BB tourny (mens). I hate BB and could care less, but it ticks me off that Irv and some of the other idiots in Fargo tried to sell the idea moving to D1 means they will be in the NCAA tourny.

I had season tickets about 10 years ago (actually my dad had them) for Bison hockey when they were going to go D1 (note I'd still be a Sioux hockey fan). Thanks to Irv and Bucky and other idiot Bison officials we got a refund check instead. Looks like Kato is happy things didn't work out.

[sioux goo]

it is not a done deal....there has not been a official vote on it yet!!!!!

[NDSU grad]

it is not a done deal....there has not been a official vote on it yet!!!!!

From all reports the official vote is a formality, since there was zero opposition to it while in committee.

[The Sicatoka]

They approved Proposal 2003-13. I'm not sure if it's been amended since the date of that link.

This still means that there is a five-year probation on post-season play during a transition.

What that says is if a team joins an established conference with an autobid the "new" team is autobid eligible immediately (assuming they are post-season eligible otherwise).

Before, if a team joined an autobid conference they'd have to wait two extra years (it was eight years for mens BB), beyond the transition five, for the autobid to be good for them.

The bigger key to all of this that is readiliy overlooked: Getting admitted to a conference with an autobid.

[Corella]

It is also commonplace for a team newly admitted to a conference to be placed on a probationary like sentence by the conference for a few years, not being eligible for that confernce's post-season tourney for X years, however playing the full conference schedule.

[updm002]

Down in KC we are still waiting after 20 years for UMKC's first trip to the BIG Dance and they have all kinds of recruiting advantages over fargo. NDSU could be tourney eligible right now and it still isn't going to make a big difference. They just are going to have a heck of a hard time ever recruiting the elite type athlete necessary to make the big dance. If the elite athlete doesn't much want to come to KC - they surely aren't coming to the tundra of ND. Unlikely to happen. If the ncaa ever reclassifies all sports to d1aa (not just fb) then I would be all for a bunch of the ncc schools to jump in. As it is now I am against it. FB will probably work out for a lot of those schools but a lot of the other d1 sports will be "sacrificial lambs" in the quest for d1 greatness.

[BisonMav]

Down in KC we are still waiting after 20 years for UMKC's first trip to the BIG Dance and they have all kinds of recruiting advantages over fargo.  NDSU could be tourney eligible right now and it still isn't going to make a big difference.  They just are going to have a heck of a  hard time ever recruiting the elite type athlete necessary to make the big dance.  If the elite athlete doesn't much want to come to KC - they surely aren't coming to the tundra of ND.  Unlikely to happen.  If the ncaa ever reclassifies all sports to d1aa (not just fb) then I would be all for a bunch of the ncc schools to jump in.  As it is now I am against it.  FB will probably work out for a lot of those schools but  a lot of the other d1 sports will be "sacrificial lambs" in the quest for d1 greatness.

UMKC has been a Divison I team for 18 years. That is not that long of a timeframe. Former NCC school UNI finally got to the dance. They have some good players from the Twin Cities. Why do athletes Gonzaga? One trip to the dance is worth more than 100 years of small college and DII basketball.

[Cratter]

Why do athletes Gonzaga?

NDSU educated?

[NDSU grad]

For every UMKC there is a IUPUI. They've been a DI member since 1998 and already have one trip to the Big Dance and another appearance in the Mid-Con championship game. Geography is not a predictor of success or failure in this move.

[Corella]

For every UMKC there is a IUPUI. They've been a DI member since 1998 and already have one trip to the Big Dance and another appearance in the Mid-Con championship game. Geography is not a predictor of success or failure in this move.

No way. For every 75 UMKC's there is one IUPUI. There are far, far, far more teams that have failed miserably after moving up then there are examples like IUPUI. They are the Powerball winner to everyone else's wrong numbers.

[UND92,96]

For every UMKC there is a IUPUI.  They've been a DI member since 1998 and already have one trip to the Big Dance and another appearance in the Mid-Con championship game.  Geography is not a predictor of success or failure in this move.

I would respectfully disagree that geography isn't a predictor of success or failure of basketball, whether it be NDSU, or UND if we were to move up. How likely is it to be able to recruit legitimate dI caliber basketball players to North Dakota? I'm not talking about good dII players, but guys who are actually being recruited heavily by schools from the Missouri Valley or other decent mid-major conferences. Let's face it, the odds aren't good. And without getting those players, the actual caliber of play you'll likely see from NDSU is not going to be any better than what it's been.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for NDSU to sign its first recruit who actually turned down a scholarship offer from a tournament-eligible dI program in favor of NDSU. I'm guessing it may be many years. Geography also works against obtaining a conference affiliation. I agree that making it to the tournament would be a huge accomplishment and more prestigious than winning a dII title, but the theoretical ability to make it and actually making it considering the geographical disadvantages we have in North Dakota are two very different things.

[Corella]

You are exactly right 92, 96 , and IUPUI is a great example of just that. They are located in the most baskebtll crazt state in the union. Granted they play minimum 4th fiddle in the state, probably lower, they can keep a couple of local kids at home and compete. Stay at home, that isn't a terribly difficult sell for a coach. Now, on the other hand, Idaho, Idaho State, and Boise St are the tops in their state, yet struggle mightily on the court. Why, geographics plays a huge role there. Even if one of those teams could get the 5 best players in-state to stay every single year, the team on the court would still be lucky to compete. Shoot, give them the top kids from Montana and Wyoming as well and they still miss the boat. Geography plays a fairly large role in the move IMO.

[BisonMav]

NDSU educated?

It's been a long week today.

[NDSU grad]

[The Sicatoka]

It's been a long week today.

One of the longest months of my life was a weekend in Mankato.

[Bisonfan1234]

NDSU educated?

Isn't Gonzaga a verb?

As far as recruiting top notch players to North Dakota goes...first of all...there ARE D1 caliber players from ND. C Rob Hunt for NDSU could easily start at UMN over Greg Esslinger....who is from Bismark. Secondly, a 3 hour drive away you have 2.5 million people in the cities area. Bound to be some good athletes there. Then you have Omaha, Des Moines, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc plus athletes from small schools in other states. There is TONS of talent waiting to be had for D1 schools in ND.

Also, look at the football team. THREE players from MISSISSIPPI!!!!! There are countless colleges, many of which are larger than NDSU, between Fargo and the Gulf Coast. How could it be possible that we recruited them here? The same can happen for basketball.

[choyt3]

As far as recruiting top notch players to North Dakota goes...first of all...there ARE D1 caliber players from ND. C Rob Hunt for NDSU could easily start at UMN over Greg Esslinger....who is from Bismark.

What?

Eslinger goes to Minnesota and starts as a true freshman for a Big Ten football team. He has a very real possibility to be an All-America candidate. He has been named to the pre-season Playboy All-America Team. He's big time. Hunt maybe would give him a good battle, but "easily start over" is not too likely.

And just when you started to show some sense.

[Corella]

Eslinger made a few All-American teams at the D1 level last year, and Hunt couldn't even make all-conference at the D2 level. The 2 don't even compare.

[NDSU grad]

Let me just add from a sane Bison fan there is absolutely no way Hunt would start over Eslinger, although there may be a few DI teams Hunt could start for.

[pirate]

I believe it would be a "sucker's bet" for North Dakota to look at Division One now or anytime soon. With the addition of women's Div. 1 hockey, we have committed to Title IX compliance per the men's hockey program. With that, we added not only expense but also opportunity. I do not see how we could afford additional expenses with 27 more scholarships for football alone,as well as the added title IX costs. (Certainly not by including women's equestrien.) I believe we have the best of all worlds, with the great facilities, traditions, coaches and fans we now have.

[updm002]

Tim Miles walks into some low d1 level type kid from minneapolis or chicago who is being recruited by other low level d1 schools like umkc, butler and evansville. Now the kid has to ask himself do I want to spend the next four years of my life

in indy, kc, evansville or fargo? I have to believe that fargo is at best going to be only ahead of evansville and that is only bc of too many peckerwoods down there. I just can't see how ndsu can ever get kids from urban areas who are good enough to get you to a top 64 team to come to fargo. It is an ok enough place but why would any kid want to go there when places like kc or indy or omaha offer far more opportunities for kids to grow and have a good time. Maybe I will be shown to be wrong and that fargo will the ucla of the great plains but I would bet there will a lot of 4-25 years waiting for them.

[Bisonfan1234]

That's weird coming from someone living in a town half the population of Fargo but with twice the percentage of redneck hicks.

Fargo is a growing metropolitan area with a metro population expected to be around 300000 in 45 years.

We're just like a little Minneapolis or Chicago.

[UNDvince97-01]

Bisonfan1234,

Hunt no doubt is a good player. But to even mention him in the same breath as Eslinger, more or less say he is better than him, just solidifies the fact that you know nothing about football, and that you are a dillusional bison fan.

[star2city]

Taylor said both schools needed the waiting period to be reduced before a league would seriously consider them.

That quote, from Wednesday's article by Jeff Kolpack in the Forum, is rather remarkable for what it truly says: "No conference has seriously considered us, yet. We haven't even had as much as a nibble." And yet, for the last two years, Jeff Kolpack always led Forum readers to think that a conference affiliation was just around the corner. Taylor and Chapman, always the salesmen to their non-discerning sheep, did likewise. Bisson-backers, always susceptible to BS-ing if their Tundering Herd were being talked up and their visions of DI grandeur massaged, took in every distortive and manipulative quote of the last two years like it was the Gospel. And now, when they are told that the NCAA is giving them a "break", they rejoice, forgetting these same misrepresentations that their very own beloved NDSU administrators fed them and forgetting, in chats in this very forum, that they brushed off the "13-year" probation as no big deal as "argumentative and contrived." Posters on Siouxsports warning about the 13 years were just negative, "whiners", small-thinkers, and jealous. Yet now, it is a big deal that the 13-year probation is "gone".

Yet, in truth, they still face 13 years of probation unless an automatic bid conference will accept them. And they still face what their own paid consultants said before their lauched their odyssey to DivI: get conference affiliation first.

Five years will fly by and there will still be no conference affiliation.

These are the very words in the NCAA resolution, which still allows for 13 years of probation for schools not in an AQ conference (NDSU, SDSU, and UNC's current lot):

An entire generation of student-athletes at a reclassifying institution is ineligible to compete for a championship in any NCAA division. To add an additional eight-year period for AQ in men's basketball will be destructive to a reclassifying institution's athletic program.