New Conference for NDSU......

[UND92,96]

The new rule (into effect this fall) is that you must average 15000 per home game to stay DIA or you'll be moved down to DIAA. (WYO points out some ways that you can try to do it, like use a non-home field as a home field for one game.)

I'm not familiar with the loophole which would allow a team to claim a home game for what is in reality a road game so as to meet the minimum attendance requirements, but assuming such a loophole exists, I'm not sure I'd count on it existing for too long. It would be disingenuous--even for the NCAA--to enact a requirement which could so easily be artificially met.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Goofy as it sounds the loophole does exist. I have not heard any talk on the other boards about closing it....although most rational people think it is insane. Two years ago when Wyoming traveled to TN and played Tennesee in Nashville, it counted as a home game for Wyoming.....go figure that one out. That is worse that the Idaho deal.

[tony]

Yeah, what the BCS teams right now is to make a stink in the NCAA to force out teams like Idaho (irony alert). In fact, last time I checked, the proposals were all to reduce or eliminate the attendance requirement.

Should Big Schools Force Out Smaller Schools from DI-A? (written from a BCS point of view):

PROs

1. We each get about little more TV money a year. Right now, we get ALMOST ALL of it but, gosh dang it, if we can just get that last $100,000, we can give our head coach a .5% raise.

2. If we force schools down, some of them might end up in the Big Sky and that means NDSU probably wouldn't get invited and that would make a bunch of folks at UND deliriously happy. Out of the goodness of our hearts, we should bring some brightness and cheer to their dreary lives.

CONs

1. One less DI-A team to pad our non-conference schedules

2. Schools affected will file lawsuits.

3. Schools affected or threatened will be calling their representatives in Washington and raising hell.

4. We (the BCS schools) are already on the verge of an epic smack down coming from Washington, let's play bully to show we're not scared of Congress.

[The Sicatoka]

Here are the rules that go into effect on August 1, 2004:

20.9.6.2 Football Scheduling Requirement. [i-A]The institution shall schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football games against members of Division I-A and shall schedule and play at least five regular season home football games against members of Division I-A. For purposes of satisfying the scheduling requirement, a contest shall be considered a home contest if it is played in the stadium in which an institution conducts at least 50 percent of its home contests. In addition, an institution may use one home contest against a Division I-A member conducted at a neutral site to satisfy the five-home-game requirement. (Revised: 4/25/02 effective 8/1/04)

20.9.6.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [i-A]The institution annually shall average at least 15,000 in actual attendance for all home football games. (Revised: 4/25/02, effective 8/1/04)

Section 20.9.6.3 had all kinds exceptions prior to this (stadium size, or in a conference that averages so many, or etc.). Those are all gone.

I can't find them right now, but the "move you down" rules are also already on the books and go into effect on the same date.

The neutral-site loophole is in the first one.

[wsuwarrior]

Here's the list of 2002 DIA average home attendance teams that averaged less than 16000 (close enough to worry):

Here's the 2003 List:

http://www.cfbnews.com/2004/Columnists/RC/...ce_BarelyDI.htm

Ohio

Wyoming

Louisiana Tech

San Jose State

Utah State

Ball State

La.-Lafayette

Akron

Central Michigan

Idaho

La.-Monroe

Eastern Michigan

MTSU

Kent State

Buffalo

Ohio, Wyoming, La Tech, and SJSU are above 15K, but not by much. UConn is up considerably (to about 35K a game).

[The Sicatoka]

Another creative solution ....

[WYOBISONMAN]

Obviously the neutral site exception is how Wyoming notched the TN game at Nashville as a home game.....still, it ain't right...although my neighbors out here is the West would probably argue with me....

[tony]

I guess we'll see what happens. The proposals to lessen or eliminate the attendance requirements get voted on in April. Obviously, the Big Sky thinks there's a chance Idaho will get pushed out.

[The Sicatoka]

San Jose State is another one projected to have trouble with the new 15000 rule. Purely speculation, but aren't they nearby a Big Sky member too (like Idaho is)?

[bisonguy]

Where there's a will, there's a way to stay in I-A.

There was an interesting feature on Nightline this week about college athletics. The AD or president of Tulane talked about how they almost moved to I-AA a few years ago. There was a lot of concern (read $$$$) that made the decision a no-brainer to stay in I-A. I think a lot of the above mentioned schools will have the same "concerns" brought up. There was an interview with a few AD's of schools on the attendance bubble earlier this year. They basically said there are ways to get past the attendance figure, if it even stands in current form.

[Surfer]

Hey MrG nice smack are you amish? "Where's your surfboard?" is really going to get their blood boiling. How about "Where's your icefishing hut?" "Where's your coach?" or "Why is your quarterback assaulting students?" UND fans for the record you have scoreboard after that terrible semifinal in the adolf center/warehouse but one win does not make a team or a school your bitch. I didn't see SI rank UND as the top athletic department in D2 and I don't see UND in the nations top 50 universities.

Aggie Stadium

How bout them apples

[Smoggy]

Hey MrG nice smack are you amish? "Where's your surfboard?" is really going to get their blood boiling. How about "Where's your icefishing hut?" "Where's your coach?" or "Why is your quarterback assaulting students?" UND fans for the record you have scoreboard after that terrible semifinal in the adolf center/wherehouse but one win does not make a team or a school your bitch. I didn't see SI rank UND as the top athletic department in D2 and I don't see UND in the nations top 50 universities.

I don't even know where to start with this gibberish. You need to really read some other threads and figure out who you're talking to and what you're talking about.

And you can let your anger go over 2001.

[star2city]

Congratulations on securing the football conference. I will be pulling for you folks, especially against sdsu and UNC. Just remember UC-Davis is UND's bi-yotch, so keep it going for the state of North Dakota against them.

Surfer was just responding to this quote and to the taunts by Grand Valley State fans of "Where your Surfboards?" in the 2002 GVSU-CalDavis playoff. To me, the inclusion of Cal Poly and especially Cal-Davis make the Great West a very respectable conference. If it can be held together for long, its average RPI should exceed the Big Sky's. As far as Davis being the top Div II school, they're Div I now.

[star2city]

Nice job, star2city, that was impressive! Regarding Big Sky membership, how do you see Idaho fitting into the picture? I can't imagine they're going to be able to stay I-A for much longer.

The Conference USA/ WAC situation is not completely clear yet, so Idaho may yet get in the WAC soon. Even if they are not invited now, it would be politically diastrous for whoever is the new Idaho president to move back to I-AA for at least a couple years until the financial strains become just too burdensome.

To me, the Moscow/Pullman area economically should be a thriving western college towns, as there are highly thought of technical programs at both Wash St and Idaho. Yet, with almost decent no jobs nearby, the UofIdaho will be pouring millions into the athletic programs to keep it afloat. Misplaced priorities in my book.

With Sacramento State possibly moving to the Big West (and Great West for football), the Big Sky will be expanding soon as an insurance policy. Southern Utah, who was rejected in favor of bigger media markets when Sac State and Cal State-Northridge were added in the '90's, will get the nod this time with Montana no longer black-balling it. The Mid-Con respond to the loss of SUU by expanding south, to Texas A&M-CC and maybe UTPA. With another wave of conference changes possible in five years when the Big East splits into basketball and football conferences, the Mid-Con will not be inviting provisional Div I teams, no matter how respectable the institutions and athletic programs are.

[bigmrg74]

It wasn't a playoff game, it was the season opener in which GVSU played UC Davis in 2002. The whole idea of giving NDSU some taunts was me implying that maybe they couldn't think up of any good ones, or at least it would take them a while. Surfer, I'm a GVSU Laker fan, from your incohearant babble, it seems like you thought I might be Sioux. I'm just here to keep on what other teams are up to, and I useally don't talk a lot of smack about them because I know damn well that I would get nicely toasted and buttered by the Sioux fans here. I'll trash the Bison mostly for shits and giggles, cause some of them just make it so easy.

Now, for your charges. Yes, Coach Kelly did move up to the big world of D1-A football at Central Michigan. Having him for as long as we did was great, but we all knew in our heart of hearts that sooner or later he would leave us for somebody else. Eastern Michigan, AKA "Where Head Coaches go to be assistants somewhere else", was basically trying to pry Kelly from GVSU since the 2001 NC game.

And the whole thing with the quarterback? Well, we all argee that he shouldn't have done anything in this case, and it was very stupid and pretty much boneheaded thing to do. And, if the fans at Ferris State and Saggy Vally State are worth anything, they'll probably will so up to the game in Wifebeaters and reminding Cullen about this incident all night.

[Surfer]

MrG I know you're a Laker that's why I threw in the references to Kelly and Finnery and icefishing although I've been too busy surfing to surmise whether people actually icefish in Miiiiichigan or just in movies that take place in Minnesota. The other stuff was for the Sioux guy that said he owned Davis. Now that Davis can't lose to Grand Valley you should start a regular season series with the Sioux. Good teams and good fans make a good game.

[bisonguy]

Frankie,

Surfboard?

PuhLeazze. The second-grade junior michigan militia club could have come up with something better.

[bigmrg74]

Bisonguy, it sounds better when you get a bunch of people chanting it. Trust me!! And yeah, we would love to get a regular season thing going with the Sioux. It won't be as much fun as hooking up in Alabama again, but still would be a good game

[SiouxMeNow]

Bisonguy, it sounds better when you get a bunch of people chanting it. Trust me!! And yeah, we would love to get a regular season thing going with the Sioux. It won't be as much fun as hooking up in Alabama again, but still would be a good game

Here here Frank!! At least the Lakers have beat us ONCE in the last few years....

PS - still waiting for that "FERRIS SUCKS" t-shirt - Like I said on the GVSU board...I'm willing to trade a pound of Bison Jerky (shredded at UND!) with only 20% weasel added instead of the usual 90%....mmmm....weasel!!....

[bigmrg74]

SiouxMeNow, I don't think I can get anymore right now. It turns out that they where selled by a frat that got themselves kicked off of campus for being too dang roudy, fights and stuff. The thing with Cullen involves one of those guys. So, I'm not sure I can get one for you, but nothing is stoping you from making your own. Just slap a bulldog on it, and then you're good to go.

[SiouxMeNow]

but you'll miss out on that Bison jerky!!!! (well, nevermind...it was pretty bland anyway...and it had a real sour aftertaste...kind of like "WE'RE SO GREAT WE'RE MOVING UP....Wait..."whaddya mean you don't want to play us? - we need HOME GAMES!! PLEAASSEE!!! no really...PUHHHLLEEZZZEE!!") Oh well, there's always the St. Mary's GAELS in 2005!!!!!

ps - buy your tickets EARLY for that one!! You might get 50 yard line REAL easy!!

[The Sicatoka]

the adolf center/warehouse

(I'll translate into surfer-dude language to make it easier for him. )

Yo dude, you tried to ride the tube but you wiped out bad. It was knarly.

(OK, back to sanity. )

You are referring to two separate facilities in your juvenile, under-informed manner.

First The Ralph, which is ice hockey and basketball.

Then, the The Alerus Center.

[bisonguy]

(I'll translate into surfer-dude language to make it easier for him. )

Yo dude, you tried to ride the tube but you wiped out bad. It was knarly.

(OK, back to sanity. )

You are referring to two separate facilities in your juvenile, under-informed manner.

First The Ralph, which is ice hockey and basketball.

Then, the The Alerus Center.

Your spelling of gnarly was gnarly, dude.

[The Sicatoka]

Your spelling of gnarly was gnarly, dude.

It's the surfer-dude spelling of it dude.

[star2city]

The report by Hallstrom that NDSU is talking with the Sunbelt Conference is highly curious, to say the least. In spite of the talk about the Mid-Con and Horizon, those conferences will absolutely not take a BB ineligible school until there is no threat of more conference realignment. The conferences that are actively searching for new members can be counted on one hand: ConferenceUSA, Southland, Sunbelt, and soon probably the WAC. Each of them have very specific requirements: Conference USA wants a decent IA football team east of the Rockies (and probably soth of the Mason-Dixon line), the Southland wants a IAA football school in Texas or a neighboring state, and the Sunbelt would consider practically any school that is playing or moving up to IA in football. The Sunbelt is probably the only conference that would even consider adding a basketball ineligible school as it easily meets the basketball requirements to maintain their auto bid, but it needs to increase the number of football schools to stay a IA football league. The Sunbelt Commissioner, Wright Waters, is a highly respected leader who has managed to hold together a conference that a few months ago seemed on its last legs when they lost N Mex St and Utah St. The Sunbelt wants 1-4 more IA teams, as they could lose football members with the new attendance rules. Losing just one member would jeopardize the Sunbelt’s standings as a IA football league and their bowl tie-ins with the New Orleans Bowl and a another proposed bowl in the Miami area. Without official NCAA recognition as a football conference, the Sunbelt football teams would all practically be forced to the IAA level.

If NDSU has indeed talked with the Sunbelt, that can only imply that NDSU is considering moving their football program to IA in four or five years. Theoretically, if NDSU joined the Sunbelt after three years in the Great West, the 13-year ineligible rule for basketball would drop to five years pending the new NCAA Cal-Davis/Big West exemption (if NDSU remained in the Great West, the 13-year basketball period would still stand). So ironically, combining Sunbelt’s need for more IA schools with the probation rules and the “Cal-Davis” exemption, circumstances and supply and demand has for now made it “easier”, at least temporarily, to join a low level IA football conference than an established DI basketball-only conference such as the Mid-Con or Horizon.

Anyway, my question/comment is, Would NDSU/Chapman/Taylor or even SDSU/Miller/Oien be considering moving to a IA football status in three or four years? That is absolutely the only way that the Sunbelt would consider them. Theoretically, both schools could meet the 15,000 average attendance rule if their stadiums sold out (Coughlin seats 16,000?). The athletic budget would have to be increased at least four million annually to even be a bare bones IA budget. Not to mention the recruiting issues, travel expenses, facility costs, and transition issues with current players. A high-risk move would become even riskier.

I recognize this IA idea sounds farfetched to most, but that is the only possible reason the Sunbelt would possibly be interested. The Sunbelt is desperate for IA football teams and is not terribly concerned about geography.