DI football vs DI basketball

[darell1976]

Can someone tell me the point of the 15,000 attendance requirement? If its to keep smaller schools with very little attendance from being in the "FBS", then why isn't there an attendance requirement for DI basketball. Attendance in basketball is a lot worse than football with schools averaging 300 or so fans...and their DI? If its about money, is the NCAA making money on FBS teams not making the 15k (Mac, Sun Belt), along with schools with 300 fans watching their .500 team make the dance. If anything make the requirement in basketball 1,000 then schools can either upgrade, go to DII, or make a subdivision in basketball with their own dance.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2014.pdf

[fightingsioux4life]

I think basketball might be cheaper to run than football. There also are about three times as many games in a basketball season than a football season. And lastly, whatever revenues are lost from poorly attended regular season games are more than made up in the conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament. I am thinking the national college football playoff will help football financially when it comes to the post-season.

[darell1976]

I think basketball might be cheaper to run than football. There also are about three times as many games in a basketball season than a football season. And lastly, whatever revenues are lost from poorly attended regular season games are more than made up in the conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament. I am thinking the national college football playoff will help football financially when it comes to the post-season.

Its a joke to have that rule when a team like Eastern Michigan who averages only around 4,000 a game breaks that rule every year and they are still FBS.

[fightingsioux4life]

Its a joke to have that rule when a team like Eastern Michigan who averages only around 4,000 a game breaks that rule every year and they are still FBS.

Agreed, it's a stupid rule because it isn't enforced evenly. Either enforce it or get rid of it. I was just providing a possible rationale for why they have it. But it's the NCAA so don't look for them to make sense all the time (or even most of the time).

[darell1976]

Agreed, it's a stupid rule because it isn't enforced evenly. Either enforce it or get rid of it. I was just providing a possible rationale for why they have it. But it's the NCAA so don't look for them to make sense all the time (or even most of the time).

So true on both points. http://www.cm-life.com/2012/02/05/football-attendance-not-at-division-i-level-cmu-inflating-announced-numbers/

If CMU does not average an attendance of 15,000 next year, it will not meet the Division I requirements.

So what would happen?

The NCAA Division I manual states if a member does not meet the requirements it will be given a noncompliance notification. Any further noncompliance will lead to a 10-year period of restricted membership.

“There have been people in the past that haven’t met that number and nothing’s really happened,” Heeke said.

CMU would not be eligible to play any postseason game if restricted. After a year the institution could be put in a subdivision based on the subdivision’s criteria.

Then do it NCAA, send those Mac and SB teams back to the FCS, or else get rid of the damn rule.

[jdub27]

It was an artificial ceiling put in place a while back. Clearly it isn't enforced and if it ever was, there are loopholes around it since it is actual or paid attendance (ie. have a sponsor "buy" tickets to get your attendance to where it needs to be or "host" a home game a different stadium). It was put in place as a hurdle for FCS teams that may have been looking to move to FBS.

Since there is only one D-1 level for basketball, there is no need for an attendance minimum. They won't make another subdivision because the NCAA tournament is where all the money comes from and doing so would likely take some shine off the product.

[The Sicatoka]

The NCAA looks at athletic departments (all sports) when determining division criteria*; however, they only look at attendance minimums (and I use that term loosely because that's how they enforce it) in one sport.

If the minimum is there for "sustainability" (financially) of the department, why don't they look at "total attendance for all sports"? Isn't that the true measure of an all sports department --> are there enough people through the turnstiles to support the athletic department (all sports).

*16 sports, N mens, M womens, blah-blah-blah

[SiouxVolley]

The NCAA has been a stickler with following FBS attendance requirements when FCS teams reclassify. FAU had some real problems, as their new stadium was delayed and the played off campus in an old soccer stadium until it was ready. The NCAA could relax the enforcement, or better yet, remove the requirement, but having the rule allows the G5 to feel good about FBS not getting watered down.

[darell1976]

The NCAA has been a stickler with following FBS attendance requirements when FCS teams reclassify. FAU had some real problems, as their new stadium was delayed and the played off campus in an old soccer stadium until it was ready. The NCAA could relax the enforcement, or better yet, remove the requirement, but having the rule allows the G5 to feel good about FBS not getting watered down.

Just like the watering down of the Dance as they add more and more teams to it, and allow teams with say 700 average fans to play in it.

[jdub27]

Just like the watering down of the Dance as they add more and more teams to it, and allow teams with say 700 average fans to play in it.

Not comparable. The first/second/third rounds are played a few days after announcing of the bracket done in multi-game sessions. They are not dependent on fans of a single team to sell tickets, nor are they really dependent on ticket sales for the revenue since the majority of it is the TV money.

Plus FBS isn't saying that you need a certain amount of fans to play in the postseason tournament (which is what your example was), they are saying you "need" that number to be a member of the subdivision.

[MafiaMan]

Its a joke to have that rule when a team like Eastern Michigan who averages only around 4,000 a game breaks that rule every year and they are still FBS.

If a Big 10 and national powerhouse university was as close to Grand Forks as Ann Arbor is to Ypsilanti, I can guarantee you that you wouldn't see 400 fans in the stands at UND home football games every week let alone 4,000.

[darell1976]

If a Big 10 and national powerhouse university was as close to Grand Forks as Ann Arbor is to Ypsilanti, I can guarantee you that you wouldn't see 400 fans in the stands at UND home football games every week let alone 4,000.

Eastern Michigan 2013 average 5 games 4,051 (only FBS under 10,000)

DIII Concordia (Moorhead, MN) 5 games 4,427

45 DII teams and 11 DIII teams averaged more people than FBS Eastern Michigan. That is pathetic!!!

[MafiaMan]

Eastern Michigan 2013 average 5 games 4,051 (only FBS under 10,000)

DIII Concordia (Moorhead, MN) 5 games 4,427

45 DII teams and 11 DIII teams averaged more people than FBS Eastern Michigan. That is pathetic!!!

And how many of those schools are a 10 minute drive away from the largest college football stadium in the country?

[The Sicatoka]

The 15000 rule does not have an exception for being 10 minutes from wherever.

[darell1976]

And how many of those schools are a 10 minute drive away from the largest college football stadium in the country?

Funny how EMU can get 901 fans for basketball but also in the vicinity is Oakland and they got 2142. Detroit metro has almost 4.3 million people, plus another 19,000+ from Ypsilanti itself. If they can't find 15,000 fans for their football team...and obviously can't find more than 901 for their men's basketball team move out of the MAC and into the MVFC/Summit.

[SWSiouxMN]

Funny how EMU can get 901 fans for basketball but also in the vicinity is Oakland and they got 2142. Detroit metro has almost 4.3 million people, plus another 19,000+ from Ypsilanti itself. If they can't find 15,000 fans for their football team...and obviously can't find more than 901 for their men's basketball team move out of the MAC and into the MVFC/Summit.

Maybe its because they,for a lack of a better word, suck!

2013: 2-10

2012: 2-10

2011: 6-6

2010: 2-10

2009: 0-12

2008: 3-9

2007: 4-8

2006: 1-11

2005: 4-7

2004: 4-7

Football Records the last 10 years. You've said it and other have said it many times. Win and they will come. How do you expect average joe bandwagoner to support the team if you have averaged 2.4 wins the last 5 years

[fightingsioux4life]

Maybe its because they,for a lack of a better word, suck!

2013: 2-10

2012: 2-10

2011: 6-6

2010: 2-10

2009: 0-12

2008: 3-9

2007: 4-8

2006: 1-11

2005: 4-7

2004: 4-7

Football Records the last 10 years. You've said it and other have said it many times. Win and they will come. How do you expect average joe bandwagoner to support the team if you have averaged 2.4 wins the last 5 years

This is proof positive that some schools shouldn't even have football. One local example is MSU-Moorhead. They just don't have the resources to put a competitive team on the field. They should think of dropping football and focusing on basketball, which they are pretty good in sometimes. If they focused more on basketball, they might be good all the time.

[darell1976]

Maybe its because they,for a lack of a better word, suck!

2013: 2-10

2012: 2-10

2011: 6-6

2010: 2-10

2009: 0-12

2008: 3-9

2007: 4-8

2006: 1-11

2005: 4-7

2004: 4-7

Football Records the last 10 years. You've said it and other have said it many times. Win and they will come. How do you expect average joe bandwagoner to support the team if you have averaged 2.4 wins the last 5 years

They did win a conference title once....of course Regan was president and the two Germany's were still divided. (1987)

[darell1976]

This is proof positive that some schools shouldn't even have football. One local example is MSU-Moorhead. They just don't have the resources to put a competitive team on the field. They should think of dropping football and focusing on basketball, which they are pretty good in sometimes. If they focused more on basketball, they might be good all the time.

If the NCAA wants to make more money just replace schools that don't comply, its simple. Plenty of FCS schools that could average more than EMU could take their place geographically like Youngstown St.

[MafiaMan]

The 15000 rule does not have an exception for being 10 minutes from wherever.

I didn't say it did. But stick Duke University in East Grand Forks and they'll draw 9,000 per home basketball game...while UND plays in front of family and close friends.

[MafiaMan]

Funny how EMU can get 901 fans for basketball but also in the vicinity is Oakland and they got 2142. Detroit metro has almost 4.3 million people, plus another 19,000+ from Ypsilanti itself. If they can't find 15,000 fans for their football team...and obviously can't find more than 901 for their men's basketball team move out of the MAC and into the MVFC/Summit.

"In the vicinity"? Oakland is an hour away from Ann Arbor with no traffic. I'll agree that EMU being a "D1" school is a stretch, but its close proximity to the University of Michigan is the school's biggest challenge.

[jdub27]

If the NCAA wants to make more money just replace schools that don't comply, its simple. Plenty of FCS schools that could average more than EMU could take their place geographically like Youngstown St.

How exactly would replacing EMU with YSU would make the NCAA more money?

[darell1976]

How exactly would replacing EMU with YSU would make the NCAA more money?

More ticket sales more money for the NCAA, plus you get a team with a winning record means bowl games again more money for the NCAA. See where I am going with this.

[darell1976]

"In the vicinity"? Oakland is an hour away from Ann Arbor with no traffic. I'll agree that EMU being a "D1" school is a stretch, but its close proximity to the University of Michigan is the school's biggest challenge.

NDSU is across the river, biggest show in town and yet Concordia can get more people than Eastern Michigan. I think MSU-Moorhead had around 1800 being in blocks range of Concordia in a city half the size of Bismarck.

[82SiouxGuy]

More ticket sales more money for the NCAA, plus you get a team with a winning record means bowl games again more money for the NCAA. See where I am going with this.

The NCAA doesn't get any money from local games during the regular season. The home (host) team gets the ticket revenue. All of the bowl games are filled with teams every year, so a different team with a winning record would just take the place of another team. We don't have bowl games that aren't played because they don't have enough teams. They aren't going to add bowls games just because there is another team with a winning record. Plus the NCAA doesn't control bowl games (although they are a partner in the BCS so they do get some of the revenue). Replacing EMU with another school would do little or nothing to the NCAA bottom line.