The DI-AA West Conference picture is blurred...

[Corella]

Ok...lets say there were 3 companies. The first 2 sucked really bad. Carr only sucked slightly less, but sucked nonetheless.

An expert is not a company that sucks.

So, to summarize, NDSU paid Carr Sports Associates, headed/founded by the former AD at U of Florida, hardly an expert in their field, even described as "sucky" yet at the same time being the best at what they do, and one that also uses dated or challengeable methods, $30,000 if memory serves me correctly to give them advice on the feasibility of making the largest impacting move the university has ever made. Gene "The Visionary" Taylor took some of the advice of this not so reliable company, and discarded the rest as he pleased, because deep in the back of his mind he really knew what the sometimes reliable, most of the time unreliable Carr Associates didn't, that no conference would want NDSU until years after they had moved up. Sounds like a possible new soap opera.

[Bisonfan1234]

headed/founded by the former AD at U of Florida

This basically just proved our point. People from Florida have NO idea of the situation of NDSU.

Gene Taylor on the other hand, does, and used parts of the Carr report that seemed relavent in his decision.

[Corella]

This basically just proved our point. People from Florida have NO idea of the situation of NDSU.

Gene Taylor on the other hand, does, and used parts of the Carr report that seemed relavent in his decision.

Interestingly enough, that is what Carr Associates does, they are paid to STUDY the university and its situation so that they can give the most sound advice that they can. They don't have a magic 8ball in front of them in order to give answers to questions.

[Bisonfan1234]

Interestingly enough, that is what Carr Associates does, they are paid to STUDY the university and its situation so that they can give the most sound advice that they can. They don't have a magic 8ball in front of them in order to give answers to questions.

Even though...being from Florida i doubt they fully understood what was going on.

[PCM]

Even though...being from Florida i doubt they fully understood what was going on.

So what you're saying is that Taylor and Chapman could have just talked to themselves in a mirror and saved $30,000.

[Corella]

Even though...being from Florida i doubt they fully understood what was going on.

You really need to get a life and realize that it isn't "fun" to have you on here correcting, questioning, giving your straight out of leftfield ideas that no one else in the world shares. So NDSU hires Carr Sports Associates, a consulting company that has been hired by the likes of the New York Knicks, Kentucky, Florida State, South Florida, George Mason, Troy State, Wichita St, Florida International, Montana State, Harvard, Clemson, Iowa State, and Tennessee to name a few, to STUDY their situation for a minimum of 6 months (and I think more), and they don't fully understand NDSU's situation, yet have been trusted to complete similar tasks, coaching searches, AD searches, and other administrative consultations for the who's who of American universities, and they didn't "fully understand what was going on"? Then what was their purpose, and why aren't North Dakota residents and NDSU fans alike outraged at the fact that NDSU wasted $30,000 of their money?

[Bisonfan1234]

So what you're saying is that Taylor and Chapman could have just talked to themselves in a mirror and save $30,000.

Like i said, they used the relative parts of the study.

[Bisonfan1234]

You really need to get a life and realize that it isn't "fun" to have you on here correcting, questioning, giving your straight out of leftfield ideas that no one else in the world shares. So NDSU hires Carr Sports Associates, a consulting company that has been hired by the likes of the New York Knicks, Kentucky, Florida State, South Florida, George Mason, Troy State, Wichita St, Florida International, Montana State, Harvard, Clemson, Iowa State, and Tennessee to name a few, to STUDY their situation for a minimum of 6 months (and I think more), and they don't fully understand NDSU's situation, yet have been trusted to complete similar tasks, coaching searches, AD searches, and other administrative consultations for the who's who of American universities, and they didn't "fully understand what was going on"? Then what was their purpose, and why aren't North Dakota residents and NDSU fans alike outraged at the fact that NDSU wasted $30,000 of their money?

What part don't you understand??

They told us to get a conference 1st, move 2nd.

We're moving 1st and getting a conference 2nd because the above scenario is impossible.

Why didn't they tell us that? Obviously they didn't know our scenario well enough...

I think the main (relative) part of the study was to see if it was FINANCIALLY POSSIBLE to move to D1. The Carr people gave the nod that it was, and Taylor, knowing that we'd never get into a conference without moving first made a solid decision.

[star2city]

Two rhetorical questions for Sioux and Bison fans alike:

Has UND's decision not to pursue Division I reclassification at this time been driven by ego or emotion?

In light of NDSU's 2004-5 conference alignment and, as of today, single home game 2004 football season (when most schools have 90% of their schedule committed), is it possible that Carr Associates "fully understood what" could occur?

[Corella]

To even suggest that, and I know you are not saying this star2city, Carr Associates "didn't fully understand" NDSU's situation is absolutely absurd. They are paid to study, get to know, understand and they then come up with their advice/recommendations. I listed some of their past clients. It is a cop-out, plain and simple, to even suggest that they didn't understand and the only person who feels that they did't understand is moron1234, no other Bison fan can possibly be that naive.

[star2city]

no other Bison fan can possibly be that naive.

I wouldn't want to bet on that. Have you ever checked out the Bisonville board?

[Cratter]

The funny part is bisonfan1234 tries to be intelligent.

[Bisonfan1234]

Heh, just because you're not smart enough to make a solid comeback is not my fault.

I'll restate my last point.

NDSU used the Carr report to see if D1 was possible financially. We disregarded the advice not to move until getting into a conference because we knew this couldn't happen.

[Corella]

Heh, just because you're not smart enough to make a solid comeback is not my fault.

I'll restate my last point.

NDSU used the Carr report to see if D1 was possible financially. We disregarded the advice not to move until getting into a conference because we knew this couldn't happen.

I'll restaste your other idiotic points.

1) Carr Sports Associates are "sucky" and not very good at what they do.

2)Carr Sports Associates don't fully understand NDSU's situation.

3) Carr Sports Associates tells everyone the same thing and withholds information from their clients.

4)NDSU knew what they were going to be told from the Carr Report, yet paid $30,000 for their serves anyway.

5)Gene "The Visionary" Taylor cut and pasted what he wanted from the Carr Report, on disregarded the rest because it was already known/the company his employer paid didn't understand the situation.

You clearly have no grasp on the situation. Please inform yourself with the actual events/happenings and the people of which you are talking, then come back and try to converse in a civil manner like everyone else, not interjecting, correcting, and putting slants on things that aren't true and no one cares about.

[The Sicatoka]

NDSU used the Carr report to see if D1 was possible financially.

Wr-r-r-rong.

Carr said:

- Establish an institutional consensus that the reclassification from NCAA Division II to Division I-AA is consistent with the University

[Bisonfan1234]

Ok i was wrong about that point.

But the original point still stands.

Why would Carr tell us this if it is impossible to secure a conference before moving up?

[PCM]

Why would Carr tell us this if it is impossible to secure a conference before moving up?

Because maybe it's not impossible?

[tony]

I dunno about you guys, but I've dealt with consultants before. You do not hire them to manage your business; in fact, if you do, then you are abrogating your responsibility. Instead, you use them like the Godfather uses a consiglieri.

Would I like NDSU to have a conference? Oh yeah.

Should getting a conference be the athletic department's number one priority? Definitely.

Do I think NDSU is going to find a conference? Definitely. Even one or two UND fans probably think NDSU will find a conference within the next couple years

Chapman and Taylor listened to the consultant and made a decision themselves because that's their job, not Carr's. What if NDSU had hired two consultants and they gave NDSU differing advice?

Since you like second-guessing NDSU so much, let's turn the tables. Isn't there some risk for UND staying in DII?

[airmail]

Instead, you use them like the Godfather uses a consiglieri.

So prospective conference affiliates can expect horse-heads in their beds? You just might get into a conference yet!

Certainly there is risk involved with UND staying DII, yet I don't think it is as significant as the risk NDSU is taking. The risk UND takes on is that of the DII structure, and the changes made to it. Overall, not anything big... at least not at this point. By staying DII, we are not jeopardizing gate $, competitiveness, or alumni donations... all of which I believe will be affected at NDSU, given their current situation.

As a leader nationally in DII, I think things look pretty good. At least for the moment. Certainly, if drastic changes are made to the DII structure, which aren't in the interest of UND, I'm sure we'd jump on board. I just don't think it has gotten "bad enough" to consider leaving at this point.

[CoteauRinkRat]

any predictions on when NDSU will have to go to the state legislature and request more money because they are operating at a nice deficit?

[BisonMav]

any predictions on when NDSU will have to go to the state legislature and request more money because they are operating at a nice deficit?

When NDSU wins the NCAA Basketball Championship.

[tony]

Basically, you have a different opinion on what's best for NDSU - the difference being that I want NDSU to be successful while the thought of that must be a little alarming to many UND fans. NDSU and UND have different situations because UND's focus is not DII athletics, while NDSU's is.

You think the big risk to UND is that the NCAA will restructure DII. I think the risk is that the NCAA will NOT restructure.

[lawkota]

The risk I see to UND staying in D-II long term is that NDSU will stay D-I. The schools were once peers, now they are not. For many, the first impression of a school comes from athletics. The perception will be that NDSU competes a higher level than UND in athletics and is therefore "a better school". Over time that perception, and the decisions prospective students make from it, will evolve into reality. UND will then play second fiddle to NDSU in the state.

I'm not saying that it will happen, but it is a risk.

Now, if the Bison completely flop in D-I, playing .500 ball in a poor conference, this perception may never take hold. But if you're betting on athletic failure out of NDSU, I would make sure to get long odds.

You think the big risk to UND is that the NCAA will restructure DII. I think the risk is that the NCAA will NOT restructure.

For someone that wants UND to move up, I agree completely. I don't see UND taking the same risk as NDSU.

[The Sicatoka]

I don't see what the NCAA may or may not do as the primary risk.

The primary risk I see is very simple:

Financial.

[NDSU grad]

I don't see what the NCAA may or may not do as the primary risk.

The primary risk I see is very simple:

Financial.

But don't you think that one directly affects the other?