CBSSN, one last rant, maybe

[southpaw]

I believe that UND voted against the clause and doesn't want it and would nix it if possible but a contract is a contract.

I think the first NCHC administration was inept and was scared into whatever they thought they could get once the "lure" of Notre Dame had sailed....NBCSN with it.

I also think now that Mr.Fenton would very much like to renegotiate the deal.

I would very much think Midco would love to be able to sell its production out to FCS.....

The initial NCHC admin botched a lot of things I believe but growing pains happen and you learn from mistakes....hopefully

The bolded part is the only part that I disagree with. With Notre Dame in the NCHC one would naturally assume the NBCSN contract would come with it and bring lots of TV coverage (non-exclusive) to the NCHC. However, NBCSN instead renewed their contract with Hockey East. That contract consists of four non-Notre Dame Hockey East conference games all season. The number of HE games aired on NBCSN over the next TWO YEARS is capped at 12... total. Not 12 a year, 12 total. NBCSN doesn't care about airing college Hockey East games, they care about airing Notre Dame games. And it would have been the same way for the NCHC.

People make the NBCSN thing out to be much bigger of a deal than it is. The only benefit of the NBCSN deal is that Hockey East schools can show their games outside of their region.

[sprig]

The teams that voted for this crappy deal (all but UND) have to be wondering what they did by now. Those like Denver that had a regional deal have found it much "smaller" this year. Only UND still has a lot of games on regionally on midco, although the footprint of midco is very small. If they could get on the satellite networks in the sports pak, that would be great, but now not so much.

Seems that all the other teams got from the exclusivity clause is eliminating UND from being on national TV. Maybe that's why they voted for it.

And I'd agree that getting Notre Dame and the NBCSN deal was no better than the one the NCHC has now.

[mksioux]

Seems that all the other teams got from the exclusivity clause is eliminating UND from being on national TV. Maybe that's why they voted for it.

This has been my theory all along.

And I'd agree that getting Notre Dame and the NBCSN deal was no better than the one the NCHC has now.

Speaking for myself, the reason I wanted Notre Dame in the league is that Notre Dame being in the NCHC would have been the death of an exclusivity clause in any league television deal. Notre Dame would not join a league that required it to give up its NBCSN contract. If the NCHC would have capitulated to Notre Dame to get them in the league, that would have greatly benefited UND because UND would have got to keep its FCS contract as well. That's why I was hoping the NCHC would have caved to Notre Dame's demands. Plus, you can make an argument that, even if CBSSN wanted nothing to do with the NCHC without the exclusivity clause (which we don't know), the league still would have had more national exposure with Notre Dame's and UND's deals than with what they ended up getting with CBSSN. But it would not have been equal exposure (with Notre Dame and UND getting the bulk of the exposure). And getting back to your first point, that's why it didn't happen. IMO, it was more important for the teams without their own TV deals to force equality amongst the members than it was to achieve the most overall exposure.

[Goon]

Speaking for myself, the reason I wanted Notre Dame in the league is that Notre Dame being in the NCHC would have been the death of an exclusivity clause in any league television deal. Notre Dame would not join a league that required it to give up its NBCSN contract. If the NCHC would have capitulated to Notre Dame to get them in the league,

The NCHC walked away from Notre Dame.

[sprig]

This has been my theory all along.

Speaking for myself, the reason I wanted Notre Dame in the league is that Notre Dame being in the NCHC would have been the death of an exclusivity clause in any league television deal. Notre Dame would not join a league that required it to give up its NBCSN contract. If the NCHC would have capitulated to Notre Dame to get them in the league, that would have greatly benefited UND because UND would have got to keep its FCS contract as well. That's why I was hoping the NCHC would have caved to Notre Dame's demands. Plus, you can make an argument that, even if CBSSN wanted nothing to do with the NCHC without the exclusivity clause (which we don't know), the league still would have had more national exposure with Notre Dame's and UND's deals than with what they ended up getting with CBSSN. But it would not have been equal exposure (with Notre Dame and UND getting the bulk of the exposure). And getting back to your first point, that's why it didn't happen. IMO, it was more important for the teams without their own TV deals to force equality amongst the members than it was to achieve the most overall exposure.

That makes sense to me as well, hadn't thought of the NBCSN deal for Notre Dame not having any league wide exclusivity clause, as it does with CBS. Seems like the league's need to "level the playing field" has done little more than squash the league as a whole, nationally. And probably put it on par with the AHA and WCHA. The B1G and HE now have more relevancy than everyone else.

[smokey the cat]

The NCHC walked away from Notre Dame.

Which ended up as a mistake using mksioux's scenario.

[MafiaMan]

The NCHC walked away from Notre Dame.

Good thing, too, because St Cloud State helps the NCHC with national exposure.

Yes, that's sarcasm. Big 10 football exists thanks to Northwestern, Illinois, and Indiana. But even those schools recognize that Michigan and Ohio State are the straws that stir the drink. Seems like the NCHC wants to bend over backwards making sure everyone's treated the same. In theory, good. In practice, not-so-much.

[southpaw]

Wow, some UND fans are delusional about how important UND really is in the scheme of things. A new arena, unprecedented TV coverage and some good teams have made fans spoiled over the last 15 years. It's like UND hockey is God and if somebody else doesn't see it, then they are either wrong or trying to screw UND over.

The teams that voted for this crappy deal (all but UND) have to be wondering what they did by now. Those like Denver that had a regional deal have found it much "smaller" this year. Only UND still has a lot of games on regionally on midco, although the footprint of midco is very small. If they could get on the satellite networks in the sports pak, that would be great, but now not so much.

Seems that all the other teams got from the exclusivity clause is eliminating UND from being on national TV. Maybe that's why they voted for it.

And I'd agree that getting Notre Dame and the NBCSN deal was no better than the one the NCHC has now.

How much "smaller" has DU's regional broadcasts been this year? They have 7 games on Root/Altitude this year. THE EXACT SAME NUMBER AS LAST YEAR! Clearly, all of those "lost games" had to do with the NCHC/CBSSN deal.

For the rest of the schools that voted for this? They get more games on national TV than they did last year. Why are they regretting the decision?

There is no point in responding to your sentence about the other schools trying to screw over UND. That is a truly idiotic statement.

Speaking for myself, the reason I wanted Notre Dame in the league is that Notre Dame being in the NCHC would have been the death of an exclusivity clause in any league television deal. Notre Dame would not join a league that required it to give up its NBCSN contract. If the NCHC would have capitulated to Notre Dame to get them in the league, that would have greatly benefited UND because UND would have got to keep its FCS contract as well. That's why I was hoping the NCHC would have caved to Notre Dame's demands. Plus, you can make an argument that, even if CBSSN wanted nothing to do with the NCHC without the exclusivity clause (which we don't know), the league still would have had more national exposure with Notre Dame's and UND's deals than with what they ended up getting with CBSSN. But it would not have been equal exposure (with Notre Dame and UND getting the bulk of the exposure). And getting back to your first point, that's why it didn't happen. IMO, it was more important for the teams without their own TV deals to force equality amongst the members than it was to achieve the most overall exposure.

Notre Dame's demands were not just TV related. How many UND fans loved the preferential treatment Minnesota got in the league? It would have been significantly worse had the NCHC caved to Notre Dame's demands.

CBSSN likely would not have offered a teleivision package without the exclusivity clause. They had several other leagues they could go to and so they had bargaining power over the NCHC.

People vastly overestimate the number of people watching Sioux hockey on FCS. There are not millions of people tuning in each weekend to watch UND play. There is a reason UND and Midco were not getting any funding for broadcasting those games on FCS. There's a reason FCS only ran promos and no actual commercials during UND hockey broadcasts. You can't sell advertising to something that isn't going to be watched by a lot of people. Notre Dame and UND would not have received a bulk of that exposure. Notre Dame would have received 90% of the exposure.

The vote was never about forcing equality. It was "what is best for my school." For 7 of the 8 schools who weren't on national TV, it was about getting on national tv more. The CBSSN deal does that for those seven schools. That's why they voted yes.

That makes sense to me as well, hadn't thought of the NBCSN deal for Notre Dame not having any league wide exclusivity clause, as it does with CBS. Seems like the league's need to "level the playing field" has done little more than squash the league as a whole, nationally. And probably put it on par with the AHA and WCHA. The B1G and HE now have more relevancy than everyone else.

How has having 18 games broadcast nationally (more than any other league) squash the league as a whole? Just because UND's games aren't available to the 10,000 people who watched on FCS? Get a clue. UND on FCS does not equal national exposure for the NCHC. League-wide games on CBSSN does.

Do you honestly believe this stuff you type? Please take a second and compare the CBS deal (even with UND not on FCS) to any and all AHA and WCHA games aired on TV. You can even combine AHA and the WCHA into one conference to try and boost the numbers a bit. Compare the NCHC national broadcast schedule to that of Hockey East. Outside of Notre Dame, the CBSSN deal wipes the floor with Hockey East's national coverage.

Good thing, too, because St Cloud State helps the NCHC with national exposure.

Yes, that's sarcasm. Big 10 football exists thanks to Northwestern, Illinois, and Indiana. But even those schools recognize that Michigan and Ohio State are the straws that stir the drink. Seems like the NCHC wants to bend over backwards making sure everyone's treated the same. In theory, good. In practice, not-so-much.

The NCHC exists to make sure each school has a vote in the process. Had the NCHC formed in the early 90's and UND was invited to join, would you be cool with UND having a lesser voice because hockey wasn't as popular? I imagine you were one of the people screaming for Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey to have more power in the WCHA because they're bigger schools with more followers than UND. You wouldn't want UND to be considered second fiddle in the WCHA so why do you expect other schools to feel that way in the NCHC?

[gfhockey]

Fire Starman and his rug!

[sprig]

Wow, some UND fans are delusional about how important UND really is in the scheme of things. A new arena, unprecedented TV coverage and some good teams have made fans spoiled over the last 15 years. It's like UND hockey is God and if somebody else doesn't see it, then they are either wrong or trying to screw UND over.

How much "smaller" has DU's regional broadcasts been this year? They have 7 games on Root/Altitude this year. THE EXACT SAME NUMBER AS LAST YEAR! Clearly, all of those "lost games" had to do with the NCHC/CBSSN deal.

For the rest of the schools that voted for this? They get more games on national TV than they did last year. Why are they regretting the decision?

There is no point in responding to your sentence about the other schools trying to screw over UND. That is a truly idiotic statement.

Notre Dame's demands were not just TV related. How many UND fans loved the preferential treatment Minnesota got in the league? It would have been significantly worse had the NCHC caved to Notre Dame's demands.

CBSSN likely would not have offered a teleivision package without the exclusivity clause. They had several other leagues they could go to and so they had bargaining power over the NCHC.

People vastly overestimate the number of people watching Sioux hockey on FCS. There are not millions of people tuning in each weekend to watch UND play. There is a reason UND and Midco were not getting any funding for broadcasting those games on FCS. There's a reason FCS only ran promos and no actual commercials during UND hockey broadcasts. You can't sell advertising to something that isn't going to be watched by a lot of people. Notre Dame and UND would not have received a bulk of that exposure. Notre Dame would have received 90% of the exposure.

The vote was never about forcing equality. It was "what is best for my school." For 7 of the 8 schools who weren't on national TV, it was about getting on national tv more. The CBSSN deal does that for those seven schools. That's why they voted yes.

How has having 18 games broadcast nationally (more than any other league) squash the league as a whole? Just because UND's games aren't available to the 10,000 people who watched on FCS? Get a clue. UND on FCS does not equal national exposure for the NCHC. League-wide games on CBSSN does.

Do you honestly believe this stuff you type? Please take a second and compare the CBS deal (even with UND not on FCS) to any and all AHA and WCHA games aired on TV. You can even combine AHA and the WCHA into one conference to try and boost the numbers a bit. Compare the NCHC national broadcast schedule to that of Hockey East. Outside of Notre Dame, the CBSSN deal wipes the floor with Hockey East's national coverage.

The NCHC exists to make sure each school has a vote in the process. Had the NCHC formed in the early 90's and UND was invited to join, would you be cool with UND having a lesser voice because hockey wasn't as popular? I imagine you were one of the people screaming for Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey to have more power in the WCHA because they're bigger schools with more followers than UND. You wouldn't want UND to be considered second fiddle in the WCHA so why do you expect other schools to feel that way in the NCHC?

Many on here don't agree with you, does that make you idiotic, or just so much more knowledgeable than the rest of us. Get over yourself.

[southpaw]

Many on here don't agree with you, does that make you idiotic, or just so much more knowledgeable than the rest of us. Get over yourself.

It's fine to disagree. It's idiotic to assume that the driving force behind a decision made by 7 other schools in a brand new conference was to screw over UND.

But please, enlighten me with more about how DU's regional broadcast schedule is smaller this year. I'd love to hear your expertise.

[smokey the cat]

It's fine to disagree. It's idiotic to assume that the driving force behind a decision made by 7 other schools in a brand new conference was to screw over UND.

But please, enlighten me with more about how DU's regional broadcast schedule is smaller this year. I'd love to hear your expertise.

Why does Denver get tp have their games boradcast on Dish through ROOTS and UND does not get to have their MIDCO games broadcasted the same way?

[cberkas]

Why does Denver get tp have their games boradcast on Dish through ROOTS and UND does not get to have their MIDCO games broadcasted the same way?

Because ROOT is a regional sports channel that is carried by Dish and DirecTV and Midco isn't.

[southpaw]

Why does Denver get tp have their games boradcast on Dish through ROOTS and UND does not get to have their MIDCO games broadcasted the same way?

Because Dish and DirecTV have decided that there are enough people who watch Root that they will carry that channel nationally. At this point, Dish and DirecTV do not feel there are enough viewers to justify carrying Midco. That could change (and hopefully it does) as it would mean Midco has it's own dedicated channel on satellite.

Midco is exactly the same as Root in that it is a regional network. The main difference is Root is an established channel while Midco is only a few years old. Also, Root reaches to millions of people just in Denver, not to mention the rest of the Rocky Mountain viewing area.

[southpaw]

I don't like the NCHC/CBSSN TV deal from a UND fan side of things. I can't watch the games on FCS. I have to stream everything now, just like everyone else. The CBSSN deal sucks for UND, no way around it.

However, it is a great deal for the league. Other than the Big 10 network, it is the best TV deal in college hockey. Does the exclusivity clause negatively affect the conference? Absolutely, but it's not so significant that it should have derailed the contract. 7 schools in the league now have more games broadcasted to more people than they did last year. That's a great thing for the league. We won't have more specific numbers until after the season is over however I would not be surprised to see that with the CBSSN deal, all 8 schools in the league had more viewers combined than all 8 of the schools did last year. And that includes UND on FCS.

[smokey the cat]

Because Dish and DirecTV have decided that there are enough people who watch Root that they will carry that channel nationally. At this point, Dish and DirecTV do not feel there are enough viewers to justify carrying Midco. That could change (and hopefully it does) as it would mean Midco has it's own dedicated channel on satellite.

Midco is exactly the same as Root in that it is a regional network. The main difference is Root is an established channel while Midco is only a few years old. Also, Root reaches to millions of people just in Denver, not to mention the rest of the Rocky Mountain viewing area.

What I am getting at though is where is the exclusivity then? FCS is a regional network feed and they can not carry UND game feeds from MIDCO. MIDCO may not have its own but why can they not lump with FSCAT, FSCP, FSCC then? I do think a good lawyer good find the flaw in the contract. CBS may have good lawyers but as all think they are the smartest in the room there is always someone smarter. All you need is one word.

[gfhockey]

who made the tv contract? fire em!

[sprig]

My problem with CBS is this, they demanded the exclusivity clause, then went two weekends showing no hockey at all, followed by a double header that included two B1G teams. It's their choice, but they don't seem all that interested in the NCHC as a league. If they'd rather be somewhere else, then please go somewhere else.

[southpaw]

What I am getting at though is where is the exclusivity then? FCS is a regional network feed and they can not carry UND game feeds from MIDCO. MIDCO may not have its own but why can they not lump with FSCAT, FSCP, FSCC then? I do think a good lawyer good find the flaw in the contract. CBS may have good lawyers but as all think they are the smartest in the room there is always someone smarter. All you need is one word.

FCS is not considered a regional network. Since cable companies throughout the U.S. can carry FCS, similar to NHL network, CBSSN, and etc it is considered a national network. Don't be confused by the FCS Pacific/Central/Atlantic names. They're just names. ESPN could have gone with ESPN-West Coast instead of ESPN 2 but that wouldn't make it a regional network.

Midco can be lumped in with all the Fox Sports regionals, like Root, Fox Sports North, etc. Living in Colorado, I can't get Midco on cable. Just like I can't get Fox Sports North. Those are dedicated regional channels because they're not available nationally on CABLE.

[southpaw]

My problem with CBS is this, they demanded the exclusivity clause, then went two weekends showing no hockey at all, followed by a double header that included two B1G teams. It's their choice, but they don't seem all that interested in the NCHC as a league. If they'd rather be somewhere else, then please go somewhere else.

I agee that CBS should be showing NCHC conference games when available. However, committing to broadcast 18 games that are all west of the Mississippi is an investment.

The only game on the CBS schedule that I have an issue with is RIT vs Niagara. CBSSN has a history of broadcasting at least one of the Air Force/Army games every year for the last 4-5 years at least. I am ok with them continuing that tradition.

However, at least one of the games this weekend should have been either UND/UMD or DU/WMU instead of two non-conference games.

[sprig]

I'd bet that only the WCHA and AHA would be interested in a deal like this with CBS, if stuck with the exclusivity clause

[southpaw]

I'd bet that only the WCHA and AHA would be interested in a deal like this with CBS, if stuck with the exclusivity clause

And that's where I believe people underestimate the benefits of this contract. Had NBCSN gone to the NCHC with Notre Dame I would have fully expected Hockey East or the ECAC to sign the exclusivity agreement with CBSSN. In CBS you have a national network that has shown has willingness and a desire to broadcast college hockey.

For Hockey East, the exclusivity clause would have meant 16 games combined throughout the league would not have been able to be aired on FCS (12)or NBCSN (4) this year. That's it. The benefits of having 18 games on CBSSN vs 16 on FCS/NBCSN are definitely worth it. FCS broadcasts often don't hit 10,000 viewers. So to trade 18 CBSSN games for those 4 NBCSN games is a great deal, regardless of any exclusivity clause.

Only two schools in all of college hockey would suffer from an exclusive contract like the one with CBSSN. That is UND and Notre Dame. There are no other schools in a similar situation to UND. 57 of 59 schools likely would have voted in favor of this deal.

Edit: The Big10 schools couldn't accept a deal like this if they were in the B10 conference because the B10 network is considered a national network and the conference wouldn't allow that. So 51 of 59 schools would be in favor of the contract.

[smokey the cat]

FCS is not considered a regional network. Since cable companies throughout the U.S. can carry FCS, similar to NHL network, CBSSN, and etc it is considered a national network. Don't be confused by the FCS Pacific/Central/Atlantic names. They're just names. ESPN could have gone with ESPN-West Coast instead of ESPN 2 but that wouldn't make it a regional network.

Midco can be lumped in with all the Fox Sports regionals, like Root, Fox Sports North, etc. Living in Colorado, I can't get Midco on cable. Just like I can't get Fox Sports North. Those are dedicated regional channels because they're not available nationally on CABLE.

Who says that cable companies can not pick up ROOTS all over the country? They have three divisions but still are a single network.

[smokey the cat]

And that's where I believe people underestimate the benefits of this contract. Had NBCSN gone to the NCHC with Notre Dame I would have fully expected Hockey East or the ECAC to sign the exclusivity agreement with CBSSN. In CBS you have a national network that has shown has willingness and a desire to broadcast college hockey.

For Hockey East, the exclusivity clause would have meant 16 games combined throughout the league would not have been able to be aired on FCS (12)or NBCSN (4) this year. That's it. The benefits of having 18 games on CBSSN vs 16 on FCS/NBCSN are definitely worth it. FCS broadcasts often don't hit 10,000 viewers. So to trade 18 CBSSN games for those 4 NBCSN games is a great deal, regardless of any exclusivity clause.

Only two schools in all of college hockey would suffer from an exclusive contract like the one with CBSSN. That is UND and Notre Dame. There are no other schools in a similar situation to UND. 57 of 59 schools likely would have voted in favor of this deal.

Somewhat curious as to how you know what FCS numbers are.

[gfhockey]

he doesn't...he is just blowing smoke!

aka bar talk!