Montana game

[mg2009]

Even little old UND could of beat some of the FBS teams NDSU beat. Start with the Gophers. Yes UND could of beat them.

could is a hell of alot different than would. NDSU could beat alabama (troll away, idiots), but it would be such an asinine longshot that it's really not even worth considering.

UND would likely be 0-7 had they played ndsu's opponents the same year. Best shot would have been csu.

UND lost to idaho, twice, badly. Stop even trying to pretend that we would have done alright against NDSU's FBS competition.

against NDSU's schedule, UND would likely have wins over pvam, rmu, tossups against USD (who haven't looked completely awful in non-ndsu games) and csu, and likely loses against ysu, indiana state, and UNI. 3-4, maybe 4-3, possibly 5-2. In other words the exact same.

[Bison06]

You're right, that was probably the best actual FBS football team that NDSU beat. Central Michigan was much better than either of the Minnesota teams that NDSU beat, which proves that you can't tell the quality of a team by a conference or classification level. Which is why bragging about FBS wins is just silly. Brag about beating quality teams, not about beating terrible teams from a higher level.

What some UND fans don't seem to understand is that it DOES matter what level a team plays at and it DOES matter what conference they are in.

Why you may ask? Because it damn sure matters to recruits.

You don't think Central Michigan is at a disadvantage when they recruit against a Big Ten team, even if it is lowly Indiana?

BCS conference teams have advantages in recruiting and in athletic budgets. Which means better facilities, better coaches and ultimately better players.

Beating a team from an FBS conference is a difficult feat, the numbers bear that out. Beating an FBS team from a BCS conference? Damn near impossible if you look at the numbers.

[southpaw]

I haven't contradicted myself at all. You obviously haven't followed FCS football for very long.

From 2006-2011 there were 520 FCS vs. FBS games. FCS teams won 37 of those games. This is a 7.1% winning percentage.

Over that same time period, NDSU had a 5-3 record against FBS competition. They won 5 of 8 games over that time, a 62.5% winning percentage. 2012 stats aren't included in the above stats but NDSU notched another win this year giving them a 6-3 record against FBS teams since 2006, or a 66.6% winning percentage. So from 2006 to 2011, NDSU accounted for 5 of the 37 FCS vs. FBS matchup wins. That's 13% of all the FCS vs. FBS wins.

So given the fact that from 2006-2011 FCS teams have a 7.1% winning percentage over FBS teams while NDSU enjoys a 62.5% winning percentage, I feel confident in saying that I am correct in saying that FBS wins for FCS teams are EXTREMELY RARE. But NDSU seems to buck that trend and IMO would have beaten most if not all of the FBS teams UND has played over the past few years.

Feel free to use facts this time if you want to say I am contradicting myself.

Your use of stats is great, as it shows how successful NDSU has been against the FBS teams they have played. However, there realisiticly is no way to tell whether NDSU have beat any, some or all of the teams UND played. Really, based on NDSU's schedule and results to this point, it's tough to tell if NDSU is actually as good as advertised. They certainly have beat some teams by a large margin but we are now seeing some of those teams aren't as good as originally thought. Youngstown State is the only team that has an above .500 record and could be NDSU's only win against team with a winning record this year, even while making the playoffs.

My main point, which I drifted from above, is that you use "already having an FBS win" to justify why NDSU will win agaisnt other FBS teams. NDSU being better than the mostly crappy FBS teams they've played is why NDSU beat those teams, not because a team 5 years ago beat Minnesota. NDSU beat a team that is the red headed stepchild of the MWC (one of the many this year.) Having watched CSU in person twice this year and watching every UND game on tv, I feel confident that UND could beat them as well.

UND will one day get an FBS win but until that point, none of their previous games against FBS teams will have any affect on the game.

[82SiouxGuy]

I wouldn't compare scores. Until UND beats an FBS team, I don't see it happening.

That is quite profound. You don't see UND beating an FBS team, until they beat an FBS team. Hard to argue with that logic.

[southpaw]

Every building in Division I college hockey has to be able to show overhead goal replays. That is the only thing they can replay, goals. They have only done that for a limited number of years, waiting until they could put it in all buildings.

Atlantic hockey does not use video replay. Right now, Air Force is the only atlantic hockey team that has video. There is no replay system in Atlantic hockey.

[southpaw]

That is quite profound. You don't see UND beating an FBS team, until they beat an FBS team. Hard to argue with that logic.

That's basically what I'm getting from Bison06. And because NDSU has beaten an FBS team, they will beat all FBS teams.

[82SiouxGuy]

What some UND fans don't seem to understand is that it DOES matter what level a team plays at and it DOES matter what conference they are in.

Why you may ask? Because it damn sure matters to recruits.

You don't think Central Michigan is at a disadvantage when they recruit against a Big Ten team, even if it is lowly Indiana?

BCS conference teams have advantages in recruiting and in athletic budgets. Which means better facilities, better coaches and ultimately better players.

Beating a team from an FBS conference is a difficult feat, the numbers bear that out. Beating an FBS team from a BCS conference? Damn near impossible if you look at the numbers.

What NDSU fans don't seem to realize is that yes, the label of FBS may matter to recruits and to television networks, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything on the field. The better teams in the lower division FBS are normally better than the worst BCS teams (the Central Michigan team that NDSU beat was probably better than the Minnesota teams that NDSU beat). The better teams in FCS are normally better than the worst FBS teams (NDSU better than Colorado State), and often are better than the worst BCS teams (NDSU beating Minnesota). Labels like FBS and BCS don't actually mean anything on the playing field. What does mean something is playing at home, and teams used to playing in front of 5,000 people playing in front of 50,000 people. Those are factors that can make a difference. The FBS label doesn't mean anything on its own.

You compare recruiting to Central Michigan versus recruiting to Indiana. It would be interesting to compare bowl game results of upper level non-BCS schools versus mid-level BCS schools. That doesn't even take into account the lower level BCS. My guess is that the non-BCS schools have a decent record against the BCS schools.

[Bison06]

That's basically what I'm getting from Bison06. And because NDSU has beaten an FBS team, they will beat all FBS teams.

Not all, they just have a history of playing well against FBS schools and UND hasn't exactly played any good FBS schools these past few years outside of Texas Tech. So it is logical to assume NDSU would also do quite well against the likes of Idaho, Fresno St. and SDSU.

[82SiouxGuy]

Atlantic hockey does not use video replay. Right now, Air Force is the only atlantic hockey team that has video. There is no replay system in Atlantic hockey.

That's interesting, I thought that they had put in replay throughout Division I. Thanks for the correction. But it doesn't change the fact that it would be very hard to do replay in football with only 3 or 4 cameras. Since you are definitely more of an expert on television production, do you believe it's possible to set up a replay system with so few cameras at this level of football?

[Risky]

Is that right? Which year would that have happened? Last year?

How could you possibly justify such a statement when UND has lost to FBS teams the Gophers would likely beat?

I am seriously curious to hear a justification for this.

Even South Dakota beat the Gophers. There is 2 of your wins. Bison fans need to come back to earth. Almost all your FBS wins are way overrated. Do you need anymore justification. Do you enjoy coming over here and getting put in your place all the time. You must be a glutton for punishment. Nobody buys your BS. Your yapping to the wrong people.

[Bison06]

What NDSU fans don't seem to realize is that yes, the label of FBS may matter to recruits and to television networks, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything on the field. The better teams in the lower division FBS are normally better than the worst BCS teams (the Central Michigan team that NDSU beat was probably better than the Minnesota teams that NDSU beat). The better teams in FCS are normally better than the worst FBS teams (NDSU better than Colorado State), and often are better than the worst BCS teams (NDSU beating Minnesota). Labels like FBS and BCS don't actually mean anything on the playing field. What does mean something is playing at home, and teams used to playing in front of 5,000 people playing in front of 50,000 people. Those are factors that can make a difference. The FBS label doesn't mean anything on its own.

You compare recruiting to Central Michigan versus recruiting to Indiana. It would be interesting to compare bowl game results of upper level non-BCS schools versus mid-level BCS schools. That doesn't even take into account the lower level BCS. My guess is that the non-BCS schools have a decent record against the BCS schools.

Fair analysis, but I still feel you are wrong. It is exactly those advantages that you concede that make winning a game over a BCS conference school a big deal regardless of whether or not they are having a down year.

Take for example NDSU's multiple wins over Minnesota. This is a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE deal for multiple reasons.

There is literally not a person on NDSU's roster that wasn't shunned by the U of M. Every single player on NDSU's roster would have accepted a scholarship offer from Minnesota if it were offered.

We recruit the same area, so we are beating them with players that they didn't think were good enough for their program. You see NDSU win recruiting battles over FBS schools all the time, but I have never seen NDSU win a recruiting battle with a BCS conference school. Why? Because when those schools offer a kid accepts.

Just because all of these things don't translate into winning every game doesn't mean it isn't an advantage that BCS schools have over every other school.

I honestly understand why UND fans don't think it is that big of a deal to beat U of M in football. You guys have played and beat them in hockey for many, many years. But keep in mind you are on equal footing with them in that sport. NDSU is not on equal footing with U fo M in football. So as much as you guys want to downplay beating a Big Ten team. It is a huge freaking deal.

[southpaw]

Not all, they just have a history of playing well against FBS schools and UND hasn't exactly played any good FBS schools these past few years outside of Texas Tech. So it is logical to assume NDSU would also do quite well against the likes of Idaho, Fresno St. and SDSU.

As someone who sees MWC teams in and out every week, I think it's comical you put SDSu in the same category as Idaho and Fresno State. Fresno is up this year but compared to last year's team SDSU is significantly better than Fresno was.

UND lost by 8 to SDSU, one of 6 teams to not only beat but dominate CSU. Yet you still don't feel that UND would be able to beat CSU this year? The same UND who handled Sacramento State, who also beat the only team CSU won. I'm not big on comparing scores but so far the only reason you've shown that UND wouldn't have beat CSU is because UND hasn't won a game against an FBS team.

[Bison06]

Even South Dakota beat the Gophers. There is 2 of your wins. Bison fans need to come back to earth. Almost all your FBS wins are way overrated. Do you need anymore justification. Do you enjoy coming over here and getting put in your place all the time. You must be a glutton for punishment. Nobody buys your BS. Your yapping to the wrong people.

Wow you are really putting me in my place. Actually I do enjoy coming here and reading the asinine comments and making corrections with facts.

Calling NDSU's FBS wins overrated is petty and makes you sound like a fool.

[southpaw]

That's interesting, I thought that they had put in replay throughout Division I. Thanks for the correction. But it doesn't change the fact that it would be very hard to do replay in football with only 3 or 4 cameras. Since you are definitely more of an expert on television production, do you believe it's possible to set up a replay system with so few cameras at this level of football?

We run 4 cameras for in-house Air Force productions. During the 1st game of the year against an FCS team, the game is generally not televised so we are responsible for replays for the official crews. Our football production sucks compared to upper level FBS teams, but it is better than the company that does freelance for CSU and Wyoming. The biggest cost is going to be the video board, as a school can put together a setup similar to ours for only a couple hundred thousand. However, if they want to show it in stadium, then the cost will be more than 1 mil for any quality sort of board.

[Bison06]

As someone who sees MWC teams in and out every week, I think it's comical you put SDSu in the same category as Idaho and Fresno State. Fresno is up this year but compared to last year's team SDSU is significantly better than Fresno was.

UND lost by 8 to SDSU, one of 6 teams to not only beat but dominate CSU. Yet you still don't feel that UND would be able to beat CSU this year? The same UND who handled Sacramento State, who also beat the only team CSU won. I'm not big on comparing scores but so far the only reason you've shown that UND wouldn't have beat CSU is because UND hasn't won a game against an FBS team.

I hear that a lot lately from UND fans, yet all you do is compare scores. Football has been shown time and time again to not have a transitive property when comparing scores. Matchups are more important in football than any other sport. So there really isn't any reason at all to bring it up.

[Bison06]

As someone who sees MWC teams in and out every week, I think it's comical you put SDSu in the same category as Idaho and Fresno State. Fresno is up this year but compared to last year's team SDSU is significantly better than Fresno was.

UND lost by 8 to SDSU, one of 6 teams to not only beat but dominate CSU. Yet you still don't feel that UND would be able to beat CSU this year? The same UND who handled Sacramento State, who also beat the only team CSU won. I'm not big on comparing scores but so far the only reason you've shown that UND wouldn't have beat CSU is because UND hasn't won a game against an FBS team.

How are Fresno and SDSU not in the same category? Fresno beat SDSU this year. By your own admission Fresno is up this year, which means they were even worse when UND played them.

[Risky]

As someone who sees MWC teams in and out every week, I think it's comical you put SDSu in the same category as Idaho and Fresno State. Fresno is up this year but compared to last year's team SDSU is significantly better than Fresno was.

UND lost by 8 to SDSU, one of 6 teams to not only beat but dominate CSU. Yet you still don't feel that UND would be able to beat CSU this year? The same UND who handled Sacramento State, who also beat the only team CSU won. I'm not big on comparing scores but so far the only reason you've shown that UND wouldn't have beat CSU is because UND hasn't won a game against an FBS team.

Great post. Bison fans just can't get it.

[southpaw]

I hear that a lot lately from UND fans, yet all you do is compare scores. Football has been shown time and time again to not have a transitive property when comparing scores. Matchups are more important in football than any other sport. So there really isn't any reason at all to bring it up.

I'm curious why you think NDSU would beat SDSU this year. You're big on using stats and facts to prove your point. Show me why.

I also would like to see your stats and facts as to why UND would lose to CSU this year.

Please, include the fact that NDSU beaten FBS teams and UND hasn't, because as you've pointed out that plays such a major role in whether a team will beat an FBS team. Even though everyone but yourself seems to know that quality of team is the major factor and not the history of a team from 5 years ago.

[southpaw]

How are Fresno and SDSU not in the same category? Fresno beat SDSU this year. By your own admission Fresno is up this year, which means they were even worse when UND played them.

I have no problems admitting that last year's UND team was not good at all. Our offense sucked and our defense was above average against some bad competition.

SDSU this year is significantly better than Fresno last year, yet UND hung with SDSU this year. I would like to know why you think NDSU would be able to win a game against SDSU this year.

Surely, NDSU has a better defense and would be able to hold SDSU to fewer points. However, NDSU's offense struggled against a bad FBS team and an average FCS team. Oh, sorry... I forgot every team in the MWFC is good because the CONFERENCE IS SO GOOOOOODDDD!!!

[Jheria]

Even South Dakota beat the Gophers. There is 2 of your wins. Bison fans need to come back to earth. Almost all your FBS wins are way overrated. Do you need anymore justification. Do you enjoy coming over here and getting put in your place all the time. You must be a glutton for punishment. Nobody buys your BS. Your yapping to the wrong people.

I'll take over rated FBS wins vs zero FBS wins anyday

[Jheria]

I'm curious why you think NDSU would beat SDSU this year. You're big on using stats and facts to prove your point. Show me why.

I also would like to see your stats and facts as to why UND would lose to CSU this year.

Please, include the fact that NDSU beaten FBS teams and UND hasn't, because as you've pointed out that plays such a major role in whether a team will beat an FBS team. Even though everyone but yourself seems to know that quality of team is the major factor and not the history of a team from 5 years ago.

Heres the facts ...... NDSU has a defense and UND does not

[Bison06]

I have no problems admitting that last year's UND team was not good at all. Our offense sucked and our defense was above average against some bad competition.

SDSU this year is significantly better than Fresno last year, yet UND hung with SDSU this year. I would like to know why you think NDSU would be able to win a game against SDSU this year.

Surely, NDSU has a better defense and would be able to hold SDSU to fewer points. However, NDSU's offense struggled against a bad FBS team and an average FCS team. Oh, sorry... I forgot every team in the MWFC is good because the CONFERENCE IS SO GOOOOOODDDD!!!

Jeff Sagarin who is slightly more well known and credible than Bison06 and southpaw, seems to think we would beat them as well.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

[JohnboyND7]

As someone who sees MWC teams in and out every week, I think it's comical you put SDSu in the same category as Idaho and Fresno State. Fresno is up this year but compared to last year's team SDSU is significantly better than Fresno was.

UND lost by 8 to SDSU, one of 6 teams to not only beat but dominate CSU. Yet you still don't feel that UND would be able to beat CSU this year? The same UND who handled Sacramento State, who also beat the only team CSU won. I'm not big on comparing scores but so far the only reason you've shown that UND wouldn't have beat CSU is because UND hasn't won a game against an FBS team.

We beat SIU last year 9-3. We beat Georgia Southern 35-7. SIU would have beat Georgia Southern then?

[geaux_sioux]

We beat SIU last year 9-3. We beat Georgia Southern 35-7. SIU would have beat Georgia Southern then?

With Bubba's 3-4? Yes they would, obviously.

[Jheria]

With Bubba's 3-4? Yes they would, obviously.

Maybe UND should give Bubba the head job?