IrishSiouxFan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Football season is within sight and I'm stoked about UND's inaugural season in the Big Sky and a chance to make a playoff run! But it got me thinking, in the long run which schools (realistically) would I like to see UND in an FBS conference with down the road. Here's my picks thus far: UND NDSU USD SDSU Montana MSU Idaho Denver (olympic) Ohio U Miami (Ohio) Need one more to make it a round 10 for football. I think a conference like would provide for solid traditional and geographic rivalries and allow the majority of the teams to adjust to FBS play without getting slaughtered week in week out. Who would you like to see in a future FBS conference with UND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 UND NDSU USD SDSU Montana MSU Idaho Denver (olympic) Ohio U Miami (Ohio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 UND NDSU USD SDSU Montana MSU Idaho Denver (olympic) Ohio U Miami (Ohio) Who would you pick to replace them? I think NDSU, USD add great geographical rivals for UND. OU and Miami add solid state flagship schools as well as decent athletics, we could build off our future hockey rivalry with the Red Hawks for other sports. Denver would be a good academic addition as well as a traditional rival for us, not to mention their media market isn't to shabby. I might throw in Omaha if they picked football back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Who would you pick to replace them? I think NDSU, USD add great geographical rivals for UND. OU and Miami add solid state flagship schools as well as decent athletics, we could build off our future hockey rivalry with the Red Hawks for other sports. Denver would be a good academic addition as well as a traditional rival for us, not to mention their media market isn't to shabby. I might throw in Omaha if they picked football back up. All of the current Big Sky schools that you didn't mention......................................except Sac St. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Football season is within sight and I'm stoked about UND's inaugural season in the Big Sky and a chance to make a playoff run! But it got me thinking, in the long run which schools (realistically) would I like to see UND in an FBS conference with down the road. Here's my picks thus far: UND NDSU USD SDSU Montana MSU Idaho Denver (olympic) Ohio U Miami (Ohio) Need one more to make it a round 10 for football. I think a conference like would provide for solid traditional and geographic rivalries and allow the majority of the teams to adjust to FBS play without getting slaughtered week in week out. Who would you like to see in a future FBS conference with UND? It is a long distance from Ohio to Idaho and western Montana, so I don't see both ends being in the same conference. Even the huge space between the Dakotas and Ohio would be a problem for all of the Olympic sports, especially with all of the states and schools between. I like a base of the Dakota schools and the Montana schools plus Idaho and maybe Weber State because of their basketball program. Eastern Washington might be a decent addition if they could handle the move up. Add Denver and you have a solid 9 team football and 10 team conference for the other sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDColorado Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 All of the current Big Sky schools that you didn't mention......................................except Sac St. Not a fan of Sac State either, at least after their media's reaction to UND joining the conference; although looking forward to keeping the games with Poly going. Just for my selfishness I would want to have a Colorado team in this conference. When the new Hockey conference was formed I found myself thinking about the two teams that play FBS football on multiple levels. First, I thought it would be interesting to sign a 2 for 1 type of deal so we could get an FBS team into our house just one time; especially since they play Hockey the casual fan should relate to them. Second, with all of the conference realignments going on it is tough to assume that every single conference is safe in the long run, so creating some good relationships with those schools could go a long way in the end. I am not going to speculate but just thinking about that can get the imagination running. Some good food for thought, enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 If we are talking a purlely hypothetical "pie-in-the-sky" conference, I would offer this................ North Dakota Northern Iowa Montana St. Montana Idaho Idaho St. South Dakota St. Weber St. Eastern Washington Drake Travel partners would be: UND-SDSU UNI-Drake Idaho-EWU Idaho St.-Weber St. Montana St.-Montana -All schools have football -The home state's of all schools adjoin contiguously -A nice mix of FCS football powers and a couple highly regarded mid-major basketball schools -Allows for intriguing non-conference games against NDSU, USD, UNC, etc..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 If we are talking a purlely hypothetical "pie-in-the-sky" conference, I would offer this................ North Dakota Northern Iowa Montana St. Montana Idaho Idaho St. South Dakota St. Weber St. Eastern Washington Drake Travel partners would be: UND-SDSU UNI-Drake Idaho-EWU Idaho St.-Weber St. Montana St.-Montana -All schools have football -The home state's of all schools adjoin contiguously -A nice mix of FCS football powers and a couple highly regarded mid-major basketball schools -Allows for intriguing non-conference games against NDSU, USD, UNC, etc..................... I considered Northern Iowa and Idaho State also. I don't know if Drake would ever be interested in upgrading football by giving out scholarships again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I can acknowledge Denver both academically and geographically.................... But as far as athletics go, outside of hockey, they are below Idaho St., and even Northern Colorado as far as I can tell...................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I can acknowledge Denver both academically and geographically.................... But as far as athletics go, outside of hockey, they are below Idaho St., and even Northern Colorado as far as I can tell...................................... They have a decent basketball program. I would like to add schools that are academic peers, schools like Denver, Miami, and Ohio would add a lot in that area. Your'e absolutely right about the distance for Oly sports being an issue, maybe football only if they were agreeable? Possibly throw in a football only Northern Illinois as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I can acknowledge Denver both academically and geographically.................... But as far as athletics go, outside of hockey, they are below Idaho St., and even Northern Colorado as far as I can tell...................................... Denver has had 21 National titles in Skiing since 1954, the most of any school. They have a pretty good Lacrosse team. Basketball has been okay, and had some success at Division II, making the NCAA tournament in both men's and women's during the 1990's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The way I see it, the South Dakota schools will from now on look south and east, toward the population centers in Iowa, Illinois, and Missouri, for conference affiliations. And I think you'll see the same out of Omaha going forward also. They all have Missouri Valley Conference dreams (as does SDSU's big rival ). Edit: Same for Northern Iowa; they will look more easterly than westerly. I think we'll see three tiers of Division I football shortly after the new playoff starts in 2014. I think it'll be today's top 64 (maybe up to 80) FBS teams at the top-most level. Next you'll have the rest of today's FBS and the top part of FCS (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC) at a new mid-level. Then you'll have the non-scholarships and the schools that don't do max allowable scholarships at a lowest level in DI. Given there are about 124 FBS and 122 FCS today, it'll probably split out about 64 to 72 at the highest, then 96 or so, then the rest (roughly about 80). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 They have a decent basketball program. I would like to add schools that are academic peers, schools like Denver, Miami, and Ohio would add a lot in that area. Your'e absolutely right about the distance for Oly sports being an issue, maybe football only if they were agreeable? Possibly throw in a football only Northern Illinois as well? Denver has been DI forever and have been to the Tournament the same number of times that Northern Colorado has. I don't like affiliate members. I like academic peers as well, but you have to "give and take". Northern Iowa is nowhere near an academic peer to North Dakota, but they have location and quality athletics going for them. Same goes for Eastern Washington. Personally, I'd take Northern Colorado over Denver. Denver destroys them academically, but UNC has the same location, better athletics, and probably a better fan base for every sport that isn't played on ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Denver has been DI forever and have been to the Tournament the same number of times that Northern Colorado has. I don't like affiliate members. I like academic peers as well, but you have to "give and take". Northern Iowa is nowhere near an academic peer to North Dakota, but they have location and quality athletics going for them. Same goes for Eastern Washington. Personally, I'd take Northern Colorado over Denver. Denver destroys them academically, but UNC has the same location, better athletics, and probably a better fan base for every sport that isn't played on ice. Actually, Denver dropped down to Division II for a while. I believe it was 1979 to 1998. They went to the Division II National tournament at least 4 times in men's basketball during that period, and also made the women's at least once. The men's team made the NIT in 1959 and 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Denver has had 21 National titles in Skiing since 1954, the most of any school. They have a pretty good Lacrosse team. Basketball has been okay, and had some success at Division II, making the NCAA tournament in both men's and women's during the 1990's. I think only Montana St. in this hypothetical conference has skiing. None of the others have Lacrosse (unless Sicatoka gets his way ) . Surely, neither would be sponsored by this conference. I'm just not as big on Denver as alot of others are. I love them in the NCHC, and WCHA, but like I said, what do they bring to the table other than hockey, that Northern Colorado does not? I'm not even including UNC in my proposal, but they have a football program, a baseball program, better basketball, better volleball, a history with UND, and don't have 4 pro sports teams 10 minutes away to compete with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The decision to accept an invitation, or give an invitation, to a conference is not done by fans nor by athletic directors. It's done by university presidents. And they think far more about academic standing and reputations than fans do when it comes to conference alignments. You are the company you keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think only Montana St. in this hypothetical conference has skiing. None of the others have Lacrosse (unless Sicatoka gets his way ) . Surely, neither would be sponsored by this conference. I'm just not as big on Denver as alot of others are. I love them in the NCHC, and WCHA, but like I said, what do they bring to the table other than hockey, that Northern Colorado does not? I'm not even including UNC in my proposal, but they have a football program, a baseball program, better basketball, better volleball, a history with UND, and don't have 4 pro sports teams 10 minutes away to compete with. Overall Denver has had more success than UNC at Division I. Since Greeley is less than 60 miles from downtown Denver I don't think you can really separate them as far as sports viewership is concerned. People in Greeley are probably just about as likely to go to a pro sports game as someone in Denver. Both schools have their own fan base. I don't know how large either of those would be. I tend to believe that tSic is right and the presidents of a hypothetical league would lean toward a superior academic school in a comparison like this. Of course it's also possible that they would take both of them to try and set them up as travel partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I did this analysis on another board last night: Denver fields a team in just 2 of 6 mens sports sponsored by the Big Sky; they field teams in 5 of the 8 womens sports sponsored by the Big Sky. Denver doesn't field cross country, indoor or outdoor track and field teams on either the mens or womens side. There are six BSC championships right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Overall Denver has had more success than UNC at Division I. Since Greeley is less than 60 miles from downtown Denver I don't think you can really separate them as far as sports viewership is concerned. People in Greeley are probably just about as likely to go to a pro sports game as someone in Denver. Both schools have their own fan base. I don't know how large either of those would be. I tend to believe that tSic is right and the presidents of a hypothetical league would lean toward a superior academic school in a comparison like this. Of course it's also possible that they would take both of them to try and set them up as travel partners. Hard to argue with any of that. All I'm saying, is that in my eyes, Denver and UNC would be a push. I view Denver as has quality academics, mediocre olympic sports, geography, and hockey going for it. UNC has above average olympic sports, geography, and football going for it. If I had to pick one, I'd personally pick UNC because of the familiarity across all sports and the fact that they have football. Having said that, I don't know why I'm lobbying so hard for them, since they are not even in my "dream" conference! As far as "academic peers", I think my hypothetical conference offers quite a few to UND with Idaho, Montana, Montana St., South Dakota St., and Drake in the mix................ In the NCC days, I'd say SDSU, USD, and NDSU were the only ones that came close........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I did this analysis on another board last night: Denver fields a team in just 2 of 6 mens sports sponsored by the Big Sky; they field teams in 5 of the 8 womens sports sponsored by the Big Sky. Denver doesn't field cross country, indoor or outdoor track and field teams on either the mens or womens side. There are six BSC championships right there. I think that is why they have a hard time finding a conference. That said, I would like to see Denver and Seattle in the Big Sky. Denver is putting resources toward it's basketball teams and Seattle is really building a nice program. Plus, both schools fit the general footprint of the Big Sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSiouxFan Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hard to argue with any of that. All I'm saying, is that in my eyes, Denver and UNC would be a push. I view Denver as has quality academics, mediocre olympic sports, geography, and hockey going for it. UNC has above average olympic sports, geography, and football going for it. If I had to pick one, I'd personally pick UNC because of the familiarity across all sports and the fact that they have football. Having said that, I don't know why I'm lobbying so hard for them, since they are not even in my "dream" conference! As far as "academic peers", I think my hypothetical conference offers quite a few to UND with Idaho, Montana, Montana St., South Dakota St., and Drake in the mix................ In the NCC days, I'd say SDSU, USD, and NDSU were the only ones that came close........................ Would you feel differently if Denver could find a way to start a football program (extremely expensive for a private school like DU)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hard to argue with any of that. All I'm saying, is that in my eyes, Denver and UNC would be a push. I view Denver as has quality academics, mediocre olympic sports, geography, and hockey going for it. UNC has above average olympic sports, geography, and football going for it. If I had to pick one, I'd personally pick UNC because of the familiarity across all sports and the fact that they have football. Having said that, I don't know why I'm lobbying so hard for them, since they are not even in my "dream" conference! As far as "academic peers", I think my hypothetical conference offers quite a few to UND with Idaho, Montana, Montana St., South Dakota St., and Drake in the mix................ In the NCC days, I'd say SDSU, USD, and NDSU were the only ones that came close........................ I included them because I believe that a 9 team conference is great for football so that every team plays all of the others while leaving room for 3 out of conference games, but 10 works better for basketball and other sports. Good potential schools that could fill the role of the 10 school in the region would probably be limited to Denver, Seattle and UNO. I thought Denver was the best overall fit out of those choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What about adding CC's women's soccer? They currently play in C-USA but travel wise it would be a better fit to be in the hypothetical or even big sky conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Would you feel differently if Denver could find a way to start a football program (extremely expensive for a private school like DU)? Absolutely. When North Dakota was poised to join the Summit Leauge, I thought that was an awful proposition (although slightly better than the Great West). We would have had "X" schools for hockey opponents, "X" schools for basketball/olympic opponents, and "X" schools for football opponents. If Denver had football, that would totally change how I view them as far as this discussion goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think we'll see three tiers of Division I football shortly after the new playoff starts in 2014. I think it'll be today's top 64 (maybe up to 80) FBS teams at the top-most level. Next you'll have the rest of today's FBS and the top part of FCS (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC) at a new mid-level. Then you'll have the non-scholarships and the schools that don't do max allowable scholarships at a lowest level in DI. Given there are about 124 FBS and 122 FCS today, it'll probably split out about 64 to 72 at the highest, then 96 or so, then the rest (roughly about 80). I wish Nick Saban would give me credit next time he uses my ideas. "But I think, eventually in college football, we're going to have to get to where there's 60 or 70 teams in this Division I, whatever you want to call it. And these teams need to be playing each other." Saban said. http://www.footballscoop.com/news/7144-saban-wants-only-60-70-teams-at-the-fbs-level#FCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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