NCAA vs. CHL

[Bert81]

The 2010 Olympic hockey tournament all-star team was voted on by the international media at the conclusion of the event. The following players were named:

Position Player Team

G Ryan Miller United States

D Brian Rafalski United States

D Shea Weber Canada

F Jonathan Toews Canada

F Zach Parise United States

F Pavol Demitra Slovakia

How many played for Portland? ...UND? ...in major juniors? ...in the NCAA?

That's an extremely small sample size to try to show anything meaningfull. And besides, those players would be all be great no matter where they played on their way to the NHL.

[passit_offthegoalie]

That's an extremely small sample size to try to show anything meaningfull. And besides, those players would be all be great no matter where they played on their way to the NHL.

You're right. So all the CHL players would still be great if they played college hockey, too. So I don't wanna see anybody say that the best players should go to the CHL.

Cool?

p.s. Here's a bigger sample size: over 30% of NHL players come from the college ranks, now.

[scpa0305]

Actually, I just think that based on Popeye's explanation about education and playing in the U.S. being so important, that North Dakota would be better than the Western Hockey League. Call me crazy.

Nice rant, though.

Again, I am a huge Sioux fan simply letting others (unfamiliar with the CHL) in on some facts. BTW, Portland is in the US Division of the WHL. Every other team in that division is IN the US. So ND is more in the US than Washington? Well I guess it is based on geography...but that's it :o).

[scpa0305]

That's an extremely small sample size to try to show anything meaningfull. And besides, those players would be all be great no matter where they played on their way to the NHL.

Ditto, too small of a sample size. Take the last 10 draft years and look at the top ten in each draft class. Done, arguement over. Still though, if you want to talk about which college team pulls more top recruits, the arguement is over,UND by a landslide. But please do not compare which league TOP prospects go to more....because the CHL will win by a full blown landslide.

[UND1983]

Ditto, too small of a sample size. Take the last 10 draft years and look at the top ten in each draft class. Done, arguement over. Still though, if you want to talk about which college team pulls more top recruits, the arguement is over,UND by a landslide. But please do not compare which league TOP prospects go to more....because the CHL will win by a full blown landslide.

Why do you only address the draft and not the later results of the draft? Oh, and quit acting like your a huge Sioux fan- that is lame and what NDSU fans do. You just joined the forum when all this CHL stuff came up.

[passit_offthegoalie]

Ditto, too small of a sample size. Take the last 10 draft years and look at the top ten in each draft class. Done, arguement over. Still though, if you want to talk about which college team pulls more top recruits, the arguement is over,UND by a landslide. But please do not compare which league TOP prospects go to more....because the CHL will win by a full blown landslide.

But, those guys would be great players no matter where they played, remember?

Like how we always hear that we can't tout Toews and Parise as college players, because, hey, they would've been good no matter where they played...

[scpa0305]

1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 2 Gabriel Landeskog (RW) Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 3 Jonathan Huberdeau © Saint John Sea Dogs (QMJHL) 4 Adam Larsson (D) Skellefteå AIK (Sweden-SEL) 5 Ryan Strome © Niagara IceDogs (OHL) 6 Mika Zibanejad © Djurgårdens IF Hockey (Sweden-SEL) 7 Mark Scheifele © Barrie Colts (OHL) 8 Sean Couturier © Drummondville Voltigeurs (QMJHL) 9 Dougie Hamilton (D) Niagara IceDogs (OHL) 10 Jonas Brodin (D) Färjestads BK (Sweden-SEL)

Taylor Hall Canada Ontario Hockey League 2 Tyler Seguin Plymouth Whalers Ontario Hockey League 3 Erik Gudbranson Kingston Frontenacs Ontario Hockey League 4 Ryan Johansen Portland Winterhawks Western Hockey League 5 Nino Niederreiter Portland Winterhawks Western Hockey League 6 Brett Connolly Prince George Cougars Western Hockey League 7 Jeff Skinner Kitchener Rangers Ontario Hockey League 8 Aleksandr Burmistrov Barrie Colts Ontario Hockey League 9 Mikael Granlund HIFK SM-liiga (Finland) 10 Dylan McIlrath Western Hockey League

1 John Tavares London Knights Ontario Hockey League 2 Victor Hedman Modo Hockey Elitserien (Sweden) 3 Matt Duchene Brampton Battalion Ontario Hockey League 4 Evander Kane Vancouver Giants Western Hockey League 5 Brayden Schenn Brandon Wheat Kings Western Hockey League 6 Oliver Ekman-Larsson Leksands IF Allsvenskan (Sweden) 7 Nazem Kadri London Knights Ontario Hockey League 8 Scott Glennie Brandon Wheat Kings Western Hockey League 9 Jared Cowen Spokane Chiefs Western Hockey League 10 Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson Timrå IK Elitserien (Sweden)

This is the top 10 picks in the NHL draft for 2011, 2010 and 2009. Just making a point. OK, I will no longer post on this topic as a hate arguing with my fellow Sioux fans. Just trying to make a point and end a pointless thread. What we need to talk about is the CHL pulling COMMITED players away.

[scpa0305]

But, those guys would be great players no matter where they played, remember?

Like how we always hear that we can't tout Toews and Parise as college players, because, hey, they would've been good no matter where they played...

Those are two players....two. yes they would have lit up the CHL....I agree. I am just saying more go the CHL route.

[Bert81]

You're right. So all the CHL players would still be great if they played college hockey, too. So I don't wanna see anybody say that the best players should go to the CHL.

Cool?

p.s. Here's a bigger sample size: over 30% of NHL players come from the college ranks, now.

And what is the percentage of NHL players from the CHL ? These numbers and stats are fun, but what do they really mean ? I live in Ontario, Canada, but I am a fan of both leagues and see them as virtually equal when it comes to player developpment. Can anyone truly say : "if this player had played in the CHL / NCAA instead, he would have been better prepared to play in the NHL" ? All we know is that a large number of players in the NHL come from the College hockey and the CHL, and therefore they are both great leagues to develop young talent.

[scpa0305]

Why do you only address the draft and not the later results of the draft? Oh, and quit acting like your a huge Sioux fan- that is lame and what NDSU fans do. You just joined the forum when all this CHL stuff came up.

I didn't know about this forum until I started tracking to see if S. Jones was coming in or not.

[UND1983]

I didn't know about this forum until I started tracking to see if S. Jones was coming in or not.

Just stop while your behind. You know everything possible about the CHL but you are a HUGE Sioux fan. Just stop the charade.

[scpa0305]

Just stop while your behind. You know everything possible about the CHL but you are a HUGE Sioux fan. Just stop the charade.

Settle down buddy.

[passit_offthegoalie]

Everybody knows the differences between the leagues, so I think it just comes down to what the person wants(games?, practice?, weight-room,?, college education?, enjoying your youth before becoming a pro?, etc.).

Small sample size or not, I bet it kills the CHL-partisans to see that all-tournament team from the 2010 Olympics, hahaha.

[Bert81]

Everybody knows the differences between the leagues, so I think it just comes down to what the person wants(games?, practice?, weight-room,?, college education?, enjoying your youth before becoming a pro?, etc.).

Small sample size or not, I bet it kills the CHL-partisans to see that all-tournament team from the 2010 Olympics, hahaha.

The all-tournament team at the olympics matters very little to me. I only care about how my country's team did in the tournament. And to be honest, I didn't even notice until this thread that most of them played College hockey.

[passit_offthegoalie]

The all-tournament team at the olympics matters very little to me. I only care about how my country's team did in the tournament. And to be honest, I didn't even notice until this thread that most of them played College hockey.

I bet it bothers some people that are CHL fanboys and constantly say the CHL is better because they get all the "TOP" prospects.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

whether we like it or not, a large majority of the blue chip prospects are going the chl route. that is a fact. the problem is how do we combat the fallacy that the chl is a better path to the nhl? that is where the problem lies. both are good leagues and both have a proven track record of producing top end players, but the chl has no problem spreading lies and ignorance to try and get a step up on ncaa hockey. fact is, college hockey is catching up and more and more players are choosing that route. the people in the chl know this, and this is there way of again gaining the upper hand. there will always be the prospects who choose the chl over college hockey for some of the numerous reasons mentioned in this thread, but when you throw in the chl's dirty tactics on top of it, of course us college hockey fans (and probably coaches and colleges too) will get annoyed. It's not an even playing field because colleges can't fight back. And now that College Hockey Inc. let Paul Kelley go, it seems we are back to square one.

[scpa0305]

whether we like it or not, a large majority of the blue chip prospects are going the chl route. that is a fact. the problem is how do we combat the fallacy that the chl is a better path to the nhl? that is where the problem lies. both are good leagues and both have a proven track record of producing top end players, but the chl has no problem spreading lies and ignorance to try and get a step up on ncaa hockey. fact is, college hockey is catching up and more and more players are choosing that route. the people in the chl know this, and this is there way of again gaining the upper hand. there will always be the prospects who choose the chl over college hockey for some of the numerous reasons mentioned in this thread, but when you throw in the chl's dirty tactics on top of it, of course us college hockey fans (and probably coaches and colleges too) will get annoyed. It's not an even playing field because colleges can't fight back. And now that College Hockey Inc. let Paul Kelley go, it seems we are back to square one.

Yes, now we are talking. For the last 30 years or so MOST (but not all) blue chips have been going to the CHL. Excluding the last 2-3 years, US college hockey has started to pull some of these top prospects (Parise, Toews, Van Ryiemsdyke, Erik Johnson, etc) and the the CHL knew things were starting to turn. They then had NHL GMs bad mouthing college coaches saying college hockey stunts these prospect's development (Lucia and now Hakstol). I somehow wish college hockey could leave the NCAA and start their own governing body. With all the NCAA regulations it is true, it's not even a close fight with the CHL because they offer money under the table. Also, players actually get NHL experience (for either 9 to 17 games) and they can still get sent back to their major junior team. College needs some sort of perk like this to get these top end recruits.

[passit_offthegoalie]

whether we like it or not, a large majority of the blue chip prospects are going the chl route. that is a fact. the problem is how do we combat the fallacy that the chl is a better path to the nhl? that is where the problem lies. both are good leagues and both have a proven track record of producing top end players, but the chl has no problem spreading lies and ignorance to try and get a step up on ncaa hockey. fact is, college hockey is catching up and more and more players are choosing that route. the people in the chl know this, and this is there way of again gaining the upper hand. there will always be the prospects who choose the chl over college hockey for some of the numerous reasons mentioned in this thread, but when you throw in the chl's dirty tactics on top of it, of course us college hockey fans (and probably coaches and colleges too) will get annoyed. It's not an even playing field because colleges can't fight back. And now that College Hockey Inc. let Paul Kelley go, it seems we are back to square one.

I agree, I think the CHL sees hockey gaining popularity in the U.S. and they see the NCAA as a threat to their ability to make money. They don't want to see college hockey become the main route to the NHL for Americans and they see this as a turning point. I think that's why they are being so aggressive lately.

[scpa0305]

I agree, I think the CHL sees hockey gaining popularity in the U.S. and they see the NCAA as a threat to their ability to make money. They don't want to see college hockey become the main route to the NHL for Americans and they see this as a turning point. I think that's why they are being so aggressive lately.

Ditto

[tnt]

With J.T. Miller talking about basically not being able to fight in College hockey, I would be willing to bet that down the road a bit that won't be an issue, as I believe the pressure from such events that happened in the Pittsburgh / Philadelphia series and other incidents will eventrually lead the NHL and other leagues to eliminate that for the mostpart from the game.

[jpiehl]

They then had NHL GMs bad mouthing college coaches saying college hockey stunts these prospect's development (Lucia and now Hakstol).

OK, I couldn't let that go. I have never heard of an NHL GM badmouthing Hakstol and saying he can't develop players. Maybe I missed it...

[siouxkid12]

OK, I couldn't let that go. I have never heard of an NHL GM badmouthing Hakstol and saying he can't develop players. Maybe I missed it...

I must have missed that too! I was always under the assumption that Hakstol is well respected by the NHL.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

include me in that group that hasn't heard any nhl brass speak ill of hakstol? in fact, it's quite the opposite, most nhl people hold und and hak and company in high reguard.

[Mariucci]

Anyone here have a theory why UND has developed great NHL forwards(Parise, Toews, Oshie, Stafford) over the last ten years or so but not D-men. Is Greene the only UND defenseman who plays regularly in the NHL or am I missing someone? Not meant as a flame post at all, just seems odd especially considering the fact that UND typically has a strong D-core.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

Anyone here have a theory why UND has developed great NHL forwards(Parise, Toews, Oshie, Stafford) over the last ten years or so but not D-men. Is Greene the only UND defenseman who plays regularly in the NHL or am I missing someone? Not meant as a flame post at all, just seems odd especially considering the fact that UND typically has a strong D-core.

It may have something to do with Hak wanting a defensemen to coach the defense??