LETTER TO NCAA BY SPIRIT LAKE -- GREAT WORK!

[Chewey]

I too will hold out hope, however, if UND doesn't even support keeping the name, it is unlikely the NCAA will do anything. Look at the current administration; people like Robert O'Kelley were brought in for the specific reason of retiring the nickname. He has no ties to the people/area/history of North Dakota and could care less about keeping the nickname. For him it's all about moving to division 1 and new marketing efforts.

None of North Dakota's politicians had any say on the matter until nearly the very end. (Even then Hoeven could have come out much stronger on this issue.) At least he wasn't mute on the subject like the rest of the state's so called leaders.

It's easy to look back and say people could have done more. Unfortunately the decision has been taken away from the people that value it the most.

Speaking of Hoeven, now that he's been elected to the Senate there is no need to be "political" about this issue. He needs to speak out in favor of retaining the name. He's in a position of power and needs to exhibit some independent backbone as contrasted with Dorkan, et al.

[iramurphy]

You are entitled to your opinion.

That is not an opinion that is a fact. Kelly may have been told the name issue would be gone and he wouldn't have to get involved but he certainly was not brought here to get rid of the name. Anyone who actually believes that has no clue on the hiring process of the University Presidents.

I reference to other comments. It was made clear by the NCAA, UND officials and the representatives of the SBofHE all along that UND did not have to drop the name. Failure to do so would mean UND could not host any post season tournaments or games and would not be allowed to wear the logo during post season play.

Some folks have been involved in trying to keep this name for 40-50 years. Written letters, met with people, written to the NCAA, talked to UND officials or SBoHE officials and donated money. The issue must be pushed by the tribes and native peoples or it is not going to change. Wringing hands calling people names and fussing won't make a lick of difference and neither will insulting UND officials or SBoHE officials. It would be great to keep the name and logo. It is not worth the sanctions. Would be interesting to know if the Big Sky and any stipualtion on the name.

[Blackheart]

That is not an opinion that is a fact. Kelly may have been told the name issue would be gone and he wouldn't have to get involved but he certainly was not brought here to get rid of the name. Anyone who actually believes that has no clue on the hiring process of the University Presidents.

I reference to other comments. It was made clear by the NCAA, UND officials and the representatives of the SBofHE all along that UND did not have to drop the name. Failure to do so would mean UND could not host any post season tournaments or games and would not be allowed to wear the logo during post season play.

Some folks have been involved in trying to keep this name for 40-50 years. Written letters, met with people, written to the NCAA, talked to UND officials or SBoHE officials and donated money. The issue must be pushed by the tribes and native peoples or it is not going to change. Wringing hands calling people names and fussing won't make a lick of difference and neither will insulting UND officials or SBoHE officials. It would be great to keep the name and logo. It is not worth the sanctions. Would be interesting to know if the Big Sky and any stipualtion on the name.

Thanks for the recap, I actually agree with many of your points.

Regarding the hiring process, you are likely right; I'm sure they removed the "Kill the nickname" checkbox from the application form. Although bringing him here certainly may have facilitated that process.

I don't give O'Kelley a lot of slack only for the reason that when addressed directly on this multiple times, he couldn't take the time to respond. To me, that does not indicate strong leadership; but that is only MY perception. This is an emotional issue for many people, for the most part they want to know that they have been heard. I certainly don't believe that's the case for the majority of people.

End of rant.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Speaking of Hoeven, now that he's been elected to the Senate there is no need to be "political" about this issue. He needs to speak out in favor of retaining the name. He's in a position of power and needs to exhibit some independent backbone as contrasted with Dorkan, et al.

Hoeven did take the easy way out. It had nothing to do with getting a senate seat. He would have gotten that anyway. It was more to do with the ball had already rolled too far. There was no sense in him jeopardizing UND's NCAA standings to make a ruckus over an issue the NCAA wanted to go away just as bad as many in power in this state. They saw it as a black eye. that could be healed quickly for the better of UND, in that, it didn't have a cloud of controversy around it with the issue.

If it is to settle and lose the name, the loud minority is quieted, if the name is kept it will continue to be a thorn in the side of the school.

I love of the name as much as anyone, and I have done many things in the past three years to try and effect the issue on the reservations and in ND communities, but it was an uphill battle from the day the NCAA passed the first act of hostile and abusive name changing.

I haven't given up but I do understand that the issue is under a very large thumb that it will probably not get out from under.

[gfhockey]

Grant Shaft is the biggest two faced lawyer on the face of this planet. I have never heard and seen such desecption as he has. I am proud of the people who put a for sale sign at his grand forks residence!

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Grant Shaft is the biggest two faced lawyer on the face of this planet. I have never heard and seen such desecption as he has. I am proud of the people who put a for sale sign at his grand forks residence!

Have you ever met a one-faced Lawer?

[gfhockey]

Haha good point. Only the one thats on my side lol but he has continued to lie to the faces of many people and said he was gunna fight for the fighting sioux name and when the time came he couldnt play witht he big dogs and instead peed like a puppy is how i like to put it!!

[MoreSiouxForYou]

sorry for key stroke error/post error unable to delete post.

[RD17]

Standing Rock could have come forward at any point in the last 4-5 years to approve usage of the name and we wouldn't be at this point. We were always told to be patient for a vote on the reservation, it would all change with Murphy in office, the tribal council needs to take care of more pertinent issues first, etc. etc. etc. Fact is Standing Rock never did a thing, nor did leadership there intend for there to ever be a vote. To place blame on current administrators at UND or even the SBOHE for pulling the plug is just plain foolish.

[mikejm]

To place blame on current administrators at UND or even the SBOHE for pulling the plug is just plain foolish.

I've said this before, and will do this just one more time, because it is, frankly, time for us all to move on...

I blame Ralph Engelstad.

When he was burning through insane money building the most glorious ice palace on Earth, he could've just thrown another $20 million out there ($10mm each for Spirit Lake and Standing Rock) and bought the damn rights. But he got militant about the thing, "threatening" to kill the construction if the name were changed, and then forced the logo down opponents' throats by affixing it to every flat surface in the building.

I will say a silent prayer to God every day of my life, thanking Him for Ralph's gift, but I also think this whole thing could've been settled 10 years ago.

Now I'm done.

Go North Dakota.

[dani_3333]

Standing Rock could have come forward at any point in the last 4-5 years to approve usage of the name and we wouldn't be at this point. We were always told to be patient for a vote on the reservation, it would all change with Murphy in office, the tribal council needs to take care of more pertinent issues first, etc. etc. etc. Fact is Standing Rock never did a thing, nor did leadership there intend for there to ever be a vote. To place blame on current administrators at UND or even the SBOHE for pulling the plug is just plain foolish.

You have no idea do you? What you said is just a bunch of nonsense. Archie and his committee has been out there battling the opposition on Standing Rock and with his petition and through his petition he proved that the support was all for the name and logo. The opposition has power and control that nobody will ever understand and that is what's stopping the vote. Dictatorship...

Maybe you should do alittle research into the corrupt politicians we have running our State, the SBoHE, and UND. This was there plan and intention from day one.

[RD17]

You have no idea do you? What you said is just a bunch of nonsense. Archie and his committee has been out there battling the opposition on Standing Rock and with his petition and through his petition he proved that the support was all for the name and logo. The opposition has power and control that nobody will ever understand and that is what's stopping the vote. Dictatorship...

Maybe you should do alittle research into the corrupt politicians we have running our State, the SBoHE, and UND. This was there plan and intention from day one.

What are you talking about? Of course I'm aware that there were people like Archie doing everything possible to get it to a vote and that if a vote happened the majority would support it. But the SRTC never intended to allow that happen, which was obvious by their inaction. We were all told it would change when Murphy took office and that obviously wasn't the case. And the corrupt politicians stuff is silly... to blame this on anyone but the NCAA and Standing Rock is ridiculous.

[82SiouxGuy]

You have no idea do you? What you said is just a bunch of nonsense. Archie and his committee has been out there battling the opposition on Standing Rock and with his petition and through his petition he proved that the support was all for the name and logo. The opposition has power and control that nobody will ever understand and that is what's stopping the vote. Dictatorship...

Maybe you should do alittle research into the corrupt politicians we have running our State, the SBoHE, and UND. This was there plan and intention from day one.

Just because you don't like what's happened doesn't mean that there are any corrupt politicians. You may not understand this, but people have different opinions. Unless you have actual proof of corruption you better be careful about making accusations. What you and many other people don't realize is that many people in North Dakota and around the country really don't care either way about the Fighting Sioux nickname. It isn't an issue that they are going to get excited about and it isn't an issue that they are going to stick their neck out to defend. True politicians realize that fighting to keep the nickname isn't going to buy them enough votes to be worth the time, effort or political capital it would cost. That's why none of the politicians in North Dakota got really active in this issue.

Archie and his group have tried very hard. But Archie has been on that reservation long enough to know how its government works. A small group of people can often control a tribal government. You see it all over. Jesse Taken Alive and Ron His Horse is Thunder have been very open about their feelings on UND and the nickname. The only way that Archie or anyone else would get something different through the council would be to change the council. That didn't happen. That's why so many people were of the opinion that nothing would be approved by Standing Rock. The people of Standing Rock are the only people that can change how the government on their reservation operates. The UND nickname isn't important enough of an issue for the majority of the residents of Standing Rock to get excited about. They have to worry about the high unemployment, medical issues, how they are going to feed their families, etc.

[RD17]

I've said this before, and will do this just one more time, because it is, frankly, time for us all to move on...

I blame Ralph Engelstad.

When he was burning through insane money building the most glorious ice palace on Earth, he could've just thrown another $20 million out there ($10mm each for Spirit Lake and Standing Rock) and bought the damn rights. But he got militant about the thing, "threatening" to kill the construction if the name were changed, and then forced the logo down opponents' throats by affixing it to every flat surface in the building.

I will say a silent prayer to God every day of my life, thanking Him for Ralph's gift, but I also think this whole thing could've been settled 10 years ago.

Now I'm done.

Go North Dakota.

I definitely think things could have been handled better by Engelstad and past UND administrations at times in regard to the nickname. But again, once the NCAA got involved, it empowered the radicals that happen to be in charge at Standing Rock to stick it to UND.

[yababy8]

Standing Rock could have come forward at any point in the last 4-5 years to approve usage of the name and we wouldn't be at this point. We were always told to be patient for a vote on the reservation, it would all change with Murphy in office, the tribal council needs to take care of more pertinent issues first, etc. etc. etc. Fact is Standing Rock never did a thing, nor did leadership there intend for there to ever be a vote. To place blame on current administrators at UND or even the SBOHE for pulling the plug is just plain foolish.

The primary point in all of this is that the right thing to do is to allow UND to keep the Sioux name.

So whomever had a part in its removal is to blame. Standing Rock is not to blame, they did not take it away. They simply said they don't care enough to gather a vote on the matter.

It should have been said from the beginning that if they don't speak democratically to the issue then they are not germane.

Those who have wished to speak democratically have spoken and they say they want it. Therefore, that is what should be and whatever institution needs to adopt whatever policy to make that so needs to just fricking make it happen.

There is no other point that needs to be made.

This is a clear case of right and wrong.

The only question is who is going to fix this wrong?

[RD17]

The primary point in all of this is that the right thing to do is to allow UND to keep the Sioux name.

So whomever had a part in its removal is to blame. Standing Rock is not to blame, they did not take it away. They simply said they don't care enough to gather a vote on the matter.

It should have been said from the beginning that if they don't speak democratically to the issue then they are not germane.

Those who have wished to speak democratically have spoken and they say they want it. Therefore, that is what should be and whatever institution needs to adopt whatever policy to make that so needs to just fricking make it happen.

There is no other point that needs to be made.

This is a clear case of right and wrong.

The only question is who is going to fix this wrong?

Why does everyone have to make this so difficult?

At anytime over the past five years, the SRTC could have voted to allow UND usage of the name and we wouldn't be at this point. It really is that simple. Wouldn't have required the NCAA lawsuit, any petitions, or a reservation-wide vote, could literally have been done in 10 minutes. Obviously, the radicals on the SRTC never intended for this to happen.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

i think something is lost in this. That the NCAA and AG decided on the timeline because it was time for election cycles to change the councils. (I thought somewhere said it was two elections on both reservations)

On both reservations that was enough to vote out opponents and in proponents of the name. That was supposed to be the true litmis test.

Wtih thatm, tribal politics, it makes it SO hard for a council to make a 30 year agreement the SBoHE required.

[Stinger_UND]

The whole thing is ridiculous because the Standing Rock reservation is mostly in South Dakota.

If their tribal headquarters wasn't in Fort Yates, would they even be considered?

What about the Sisseton Sioux tribe? Includes part of North Dakota, but headquarters are in Sisseton. Opposite of Standing Rock.

Were they any part of the settlement?

[iramurphy]

Thanks for the recap, I actually agree with many of your points.

Regarding the hiring process, you are likely right; I'm sure they removed the "Kill the nickname" checkbox from the application form. Although bringing him here certainly may have facilitated that process.

I don't give O'Kelley a lot of slack only for the reason that when addressed directly on this multiple times, he couldn't take the time to respond. To me, that does not indicate strong leadership; but that is only MY perception. This is an emotional issue for many people, for the most part they want to know that they have been heard. I certainly don't believe that's the case for the majority of people.

End of rant.

When he was hired, while he was still in Wyoming, he took my phone call and was very respectful about listening to my opinion about the name. I understood that he was told he would not have to deal with the nickname decision but would need to deal with the transition. I don't think that is in wiriting either. I alos spoke with him since he has become president and he has always listened and been very respectful. I believe he doesn't see anyway he can change what has happened without the tribes making major statements throught their tribal councils.

I also would have liked to see a vote by the tribes and then the councils abiding by those votes, but whether we like it or not it is up to the tribes and their people to decide how they wish to run their governments and tribal councils. Kelly, Faison and the SBoHE can't force them to do anything. I do not believe the NCAA will change their ruling unless the tribal governments petition and convince them to do so. The only thing I can think of otherwise is a class action lawsuit by Native Americans challenging the NCAA not allowing Universities to honor their people similar to how the Irish etc. may be honored. ( yes, II understand the argument about whether or not it is an honor).

MAke an appointment with Kelly and let him know how you feel and hear his side of the story. I think you will be impressed that he is a UND guy and will do what is best for UND.