Problems I Noticed With Attendence This Year

[SiouxDude12]

Maximum attendance is the MAIN priority for both parties. The amount of money the Alerus makes at a football game (concessions, parking, etc.) is directly tied to attendance. I don't see a conflict of interest, let alone a "huge" one. Security is always a delicate balance, whether the facility is owned by the city, the University, or a private entity. Sometimes the balance shifts too heavy on one side and needs to be adjusted. You can think security is too strict now, and you might be right. But there is no inherent conflict of interest as it relates to security.

There are obviously a lot of factors that played into the lack of attendence this year. Some things may not necessarly be under UND's control, such as the no games in September. I do think that it is important to focus on the things that UND can influence. We are in a transition right now, there are a lot of fixed sacrafices: not a true conference, lack of rivals, confused fans, recruiting difficulty, opponents....etc. The security issue is something that can be fixed, the tailgating atmosphere can be fixed, marketing can be fixed. You're not wrong at all by saying that the attendence at the Alerus for a football games does lead to more money for the Alerus. I guess the story that really did alarm me is the one about the long time season ticket holder. As a member of this university I felt embarassed reading that story, about how is wife was told how to sit at a football game. It wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that at every game at least 1 person has an expereince that makes them not want to come back based on the security guards and their attitudes. That 1 person has a lifetime value to the univeristy. I mean there does need to be security don't get me wrong. But they should be there to help and protect people rather than to monitor every person's actions throughout the game. I also know and understand that the REA had the same stigma a few years back. Here is the difference though, our hockey team can play anyone and sell out because there is a huge amount of loyalty and there are many "UND hockey fans." I think it would be interesting to see how many of the people who attend a UND football game are "UND football fans" as opposed to just "UND fans." I have a feeling there would be a vast difference. That is why when people show up at the Alerus that they needed to be treated as guests. I just hope that the University can realize that an investment in customer service now can lead to a much larger payoff in the long run (alumni donations, attendence, and "Sioux households"). We are a state institution, and a DI institution now, it's time that we take the necessary actions to get out of the D2 mindset. I'm not saying that we are ever going to be a Florida, Ohio State, Texas.....ect type of school, but we could easily have the football loyalty of a Montana who draws very well and has good loyalty. Just a few thoughts, take them or leave them. At least people are talking and sharing their opinions in a thoughtful manner. That could at least lead to someone reading this who may matter and realizing that there might be some issues occuring that could enhance the experience for fans if action is taken.

[UNDvince97-01]

I think the best thing that could happen for football attendance would be for UND to get into a better football conference like the Missouri Valley. UND needs more conference games so it can start establishing familiar opponents and rivalries and so that fewer non-conference games are necessary. The more non-conference games the AD needs to schedule, the less leverage he has for dictating dates. Obviously playing NDSU again on a rotating schedule would be huge. UND's football conference situation is the most worrisome factor as far as I'm concerned. A lot of the other issues can be addressed, but getting into the MVFC is beyond UND's control.

IMO, this is the KEY to UND Football in the near future. A Sioux-Bison game would then have to happen. All this would have a positive domino effect on the football program in the long run.

I believe getting into the Summit would have a positive effect on getting into the MVFC. Maybe I am wrong.

Enter the Sioux nickname and logo decision.

[the green team]

I think everybody is bringing a lot to the table, in regards to this discussion. Alot of constructive stuff. It's dissappointing to hear that people are having issues with security. Rather than get into a long story, I can say that I too have had my issues with them in the past, this point I do agree on is that the ushers/security at REA are way better in people skills than the Alerus Center at this point and time--hopefully, they can improve those issues. I do feel that this is just one small issue in regards to the whole question.

I agree not in a great week in, week out- recognizable teams football conference hurts, as does not having the ability to get into play-offs. One thing that was mentioned to me in passing from a friend who works at UND-- Did you know that at many institutions they actual do not allow their student athletes to room together on campus? while they are freshman & sophmores. The reasoning from what I understand is to encourage more interacting between the students and the student athletes-- it allows for more connections and our athletes to encourage other students to get out for the game. I understand that this happens at some large Universities and some small colleges as well. It's one thing for the student athlete to interact with their fellow students at class or on campus, but when you live together, that changes things.--it's just an idea don't know how it would go over. I guess I'm from the frame of mind that you can do all these marketing campaigns and activities but the really people want to come and first watch good product, and 2 want the game to have some meaning such as- if we win or lose this game does it effect our play-off chances. I do believe our scheduling will improve as our transition continues, but I also believe that the time of the game is a week excuse. I've always felt that in this community there are so many families that have soccer, or hockey or youth football or whatever it is on Saturday AM's that it's a good idea to move the games later in the day. I also think that Tailgaiting from a Noon to 4 stand point is a lot more appealing than say a 9 to 1- at least for me. Definitely agree on letting the lots stay open later after the game though.

1 last thought, I was at Memorial stadium for some absolutely crucial NCC games in late october and early november in the 90's and guess what, a bad attendance day at the Alerus doesn't even compare to bad attendance at Memorial. Specifically, we had a game versus Northern Colorado- The Bears were good and so were we, and the game was going to be a huge factor to who was going to finish on top or near the top of the standings. It was 25 degrees with winds out of the NW at about 15mph-- attendance-- I don't know what it was announced at but I doubt very much it was a person over 3500, and there were many other times and similar instances that I can recall where that happened.

[mizzou/sioux]

IMO, this is the KEY to UND Football in the near future. A Sioux-Bison game would then have to happen. All this would have a positive domino effect on the football program in the long run.

I believe getting into the Summit would have a positive effect on getting into the MVFC. Maybe I am wrong.

Enter the Sioux nickname and logo decision.

I don't really know if this is applicable or not, but at Wisconsin's Camp Randall Stadium in Madison the Badger Band has what is called "The Fifth Quarter." The band entertains the crowd for quite some time after the game ends. I imagine part of the reason is to help the crowd out as it waits for other members of the crowd to disperse, thereby thinning out the traffic somewhat. But The Fifth Quarter seems to me to be a tremendous success. Sometimes Wisconsin's band takes it on the road as well. I remember watching the Fifth Quarter at the Metrodome in Minneapolis following a Badger win over the Gophers a couple of years ago or so.

Wisconsin in my mind has simply one of the best college football venues there is. I know they are Big Ten and all that, but in the 1960s and 1970s when Wisconsin was going through some hard times on the field and equally hard times with attendance, it happened there as well.

At NDSU, I believe the people down there have figured out a way to make football simply "an event that must be attended," much in the way men's hockey is at UND, or maybe I should call it a "happening." Was leaving Memorial Stadium a mistake? After having indoor football at the Metrodome since 1982, the folks at the University of Minnesota have decided to take football outside again. Will we have to do the same?

True, not having had any home games in September this season has hurt attendance. I won't deny that. But it probably also didn't help to schedule women's hockey against Ohio State in virtually the same time slots. In all likelihood, however, a winning team would likely get fans back in the seats, and we have probably been spoiled by our D-II success in the past, so that just above .500 doesn't really seem to cut it if and when there are countless other options available.

Maybe it's Scandinavian Stoicism, that and the fact that people want something for every time that is spent, and if the product isn't felt to be worth one's time and money that other options seem more viable. I just don't know.

[82SiouxGuy]

I don't really know if this is applicable or not, but at Wisconsin's Camp Randall Stadium in Madison the Badger Band has what is called "The Fifth Quarter." The band entertains the crowd for quite some time after the game ends. I imagine part of the reason is to help the crowd out as it waits for other members of the crowd to disperse, thereby thinning out the traffic somewhat. But The Fifth Quarter seems to me to be a tremendous success. Sometimes Wisconsin's band takes it on the road as well. I remember watching the Fifth Quarter at the Metrodome in Minneapolis following a Badger win over the Gophers a couple of years ago or so.

Wisconsin in my mind has simply one of the best college football venues there is. I know they are Big Ten and all that, but in the 1960s and 1970s when Wisconsin was going through some hard times on the field and equally hard times with attendance, it happened there as well.

At NDSU, I believe the people down there have figured out a way to make football simply "an event that must be attended," much in the way men's hockey is at UND, or maybe I should call it a "happening." Was leaving Memorial Stadium a mistake? After having indoor football at the Metrodome since 1982, the folks at the University of Minnesota have decided to take football outside again. Will we have to do the same?

True, not having had any home games in September this season has hurt attendance. I won't deny that. But it probably also didn't help to schedule women's hockey against Ohio State in virtually the same time slots. In all likelihood, however, a winning team would likely get fans back in the seats, and we have probably been spoiled by our D-II success in the past, so that just above .500 doesn't really seem to cut it if and when there are countless other options available.

Maybe it's Scandinavian Stoicism, that and the fact that people want something for every time that is spent, and if the product isn't felt to be worth one's time and money that other options seem more viable. I just don't know.

The Pride of the North Marching Band does their own version of the Fifth Quarter show, very few people stay to listen to them.

Average attendance has been much larger at the Alerus Center than it was at Memorial Stadium. Weather has been a huge part of the reason for that. November (and even late October) attendance at Memorial was usually weak.

Scheduling the Women's hockey game at the same time as the football game was a mistake, but I doubt that it had much of an effect on the football attendance. It probably had a bigger effect on attendance at the hockey game. I was at the hockey game on Friday night along with about 450 other people. I might have gone again on Saturday if they weren't at the same time. But I find it hard to believe that a lot of people chose Women's hockey over football.

[Irish]

Many interesting points - while I agree that at times security is far down the list of important things - however when the product on the field is poor, atmosphere and fan treatment raises a lot higher in priority. I think at this point, treatment of fans could be a make or break deal for many. If you watch the security on the student side, they spend all of their time scanning the crowd for minor infractions, and react with a heavy hand. Several students have confirmed that they are sucking the fun out of attending. The students are voting with their feet. Another year with a poor record and Alerus security and the student side will be dead. There appears to be no effort to make the atmosphere fun. They are concentrating solely on what people shouldn't do and not thinking of enhancing the experience in a positive way. If we had a 10-1 team this wouldn't be an issue, but we don't. I also agree that we should be trying to build fans, not customers, but that attitude doesn't seem to prevail in the Athletic Department or Alerus managment. Spend less time trying to catch people with their legs over the next seat and more time working on fan loyalty. It's such a simple concept. If we don't improve the atmosphere, we may lose a number of potential Sioux fans -

Also, we need to put out a better product - not just wins and losses, but intensity and coaching adjustments. I have been a Sioux fan for over 30 years and two of the worst games in terms of team effort have been at home this year.

[farce poobah]

NCAA-wide, there's a push on to protect visiting teams. One of the reasons that Security has gotten stiff is because the students are behind the visitors bench.

Its time for UND to change that, and put the student section behind the Fighting Sioux bench.

That should allow some loosening of standards ...

==================

Pretty clearly, this is not one thing, but a whole raft of things. Someone has got to start things moving in the right direction ... someone in position of influence at the U.

[siouxfbfan]

Very good points. I too have also been very disappointed with fan attendance this year. The one thing I mainly agree with that has been made is that we need to make this an "EVENT" where people want to go. That starts with tailgating. I've been to many different venues and this is one of the worst tailgating venues around. Even NDSU has an awesome tailgate experience compared to UND, which hurts to say. Get local business involved, have them set up tents and grills. I promise they will not only promote the event at their place of business but also bring their employees which will only help attendance.

Also, we need to do something to get students interested. Hold contests for a chance to win, or do something, at games to get students interested. The marketing department needs to get to where students are and promote the games. How many students see the commercials for games and think we should go to that. Students need to be constantly remind that there is a game this weekend and they NEED to be there.

True story: The UND athletic department tried to give away tickets to students for the Cal Poly game. They went to all the frats on campus and gave them bundles of student tickets. They TRIED to go to Wilkerson dining hall to give free tickets but Wilkerson staff wanted to charge them for doing this, so it never happened. It is horribly sad that tickets were actually delivered to students and they still failed to go. Instead of having the ticket office buried in a windowless basement dungeon how about setting a desk up on the main floor like they do for "special" events. I wouldn't doubt that many students don't even know where to get tickets.

This isn't just a marketing failure, team failure, Alerus staff(security) failure, but also a student failure and community failure. Take pride in your university. Support your school. I guarantee when you are outside of Grand Forks and people ask you where you went to school they will remember your athletic teams and their successes, or failures, not which majors your school offers.

One last note. While people are making a big deal out of having a UND woman's hockey game scheduled at the same time I find it very hard to believe students would choose to go to a UND woman's hockey game instead of football. My few thoughts...

[Westside]

I agree that there are lots of factors causing the low attendance this year... The poor performances, no-name opponents, only 2 conference home games & only 1 "rivalry" game (USD) have definetly hurt.

I think the marketing efforts definetly need to be stepped up across all the region. I'd say a 100 mile radius of GF in ND & MN. I live in Fargo & try to make it up for all the football games I can. A few years ago, there were Sioux billboards for football, m & w basketball & hockey all over Fargo. I haven't seen any the last couple of years. I also remember seeing the UND pocket schedules in various businesses across town & those aren't around anymore either. There are alot of Sioux alum & fans here, so I definitely think a bigger marketing presence would help, especially football... I'm not saying people from Fargo are going fill the Alerus every game, but there are enough Sioux fans here that it couldn't hurt. Plus, UND marketing in Fargo really pisses off the Bison faithful, so it's a double win!

I think the Athletic Dept needs to reach out to the alumni more as well. I receive the Alumni Review & various other info from the Alumni Association all the time. But, I have never received anything from the Atheltic Dept or the Fighting Sioux Club. I would think they could send out season schedules, season ticket order forms, Fighting Sioux Club membership/donation forms, etc to alum in a 100 mile radius. These are the people that can make a quick day-trip to a football game.

More than anything, I think the poor perfomances & non-recognizable opponents is what really has hurt attendance this year. We weren't worried about attendance in the past. So hopefully, this is just 1 down year.

And what is up w/ the tailgating??? That was the worst homecoming tailgate I've seen in the last 10 years. I've been to 3 games this yr & the tailgate is dead... The students don't even show, something is definetly wrong when the students won't even show up to drink beer.

[RD17]

Many good points brought up in this thread...

I knew this schedule was setting up to be a disaster from an attendance standpoint as soon as I saw it. No September games, two unattractive opponents on hockey weekends, the most attractive regional opponent (USD) for homecoming, Cal Poly on Halloween, an NAIA team on the hunting opener, etc. Combine those factors with the USF loss and the team not having a great year and lower attendance was predictable. The good news is this home schedule is behind us and future schedules will certainly get better.

As many others have stated, the biggest issue right now is marketing. UND needs more fans buying into the football and basketball programs for the D-I move to succeed and right now, I don't see enough being done on that front. While having a premier hockey program is great, the implication at UND has long been that when push comes to shove, hockey is really the only sport that matters at this University. (i.e, where else in the country would a school just sit idle while its main rival moves up a division?) NDSU has done a nice job of selling itself as the "every other sport besides hockey" school in the area and the media has helped to add to that perception. Who could blame them when UND seems hesitant to promote any of its other programs?

I think the first step to correct the problem going forward is to get the marketing budget for football back in house and out of the hands of REA. I don't think REA management has ever had the best interests of the football program in mind and I have little faith that is changing just judging by the lack of promotion the program still receives.

Secondly, the football program needs to get better coverage from the local media. I like Wayne Nelson, but frankly, he seems a bit uninspired in his reporting on Sioux football and the program needs someone with some energy that is constantly blogging and helping to create interest. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but Terry Vandrovec at the Argus Leader does a terrific job reporting on the SDSU program. He's constantly blogging and has new info and opinions almost every day. This is the sort of thing UND needs. I've even thought about starting my own UND football blog to try to get things going in that direction but haven't done it because of personal time constraints.

With the move to D-I, I am confident that the football program will get to where it eventually needs to be. There are too many good things happening (63 scholarships already, national TV, great education, solid football alumni support) for the program to fail. But it sure is frustrating to see how much administrative apathy and inattention by certain parties has undermined UND football over the last half dozen years or so.

[mksioux]

Secondly, the football program needs to get better coverage from the local media. I like Wayne Nelson, but frankly, he seems a bit uninspired in his reporting on Sioux football and the program needs someone with some energy that is constantly blogging and helping to create interest. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but Terry Vandrovec at the Argus Leader does a terrific job reporting on the SDSU program. He's constantly blogging and has new info and opinions almost every day. This is the sort of thing UND needs. I've even thought about starting my own UND football blog to try to get things going in that direction but haven't done it because of personal time constraints.

I agree. You need not look any farther than Sioux hockey for a great example. Everyone was up-in-arms when Brad Schlossman replaced Virg Foss. It turned out Brad is vastly superior to Virg. He increased stories, he blogs daily (often multiple times per day during the season), started a twitter account, etc. He embraces new media and creates a lot of interest in Sioux hockey.

The Sioux football coverage needs some new blood. Someone that blogs daily, looks for interesting angles for stories and blogs, takes advantage of mulit-media, and writes more stories. The person doesn't necessarily have to be a young pup, but someone who understands and embraces new media and the information and commentary wanted by younger sports fans. The days of writing a pre-game, post-game, and mid-week story are over. Much more is required from someone in that position.

Obviously whoever the Herald chooses to cover Sioux football is not up to the Unversity, but you'd think the Herald would do it for its own sake. The more Sioux football fans there are, the more those people are going to follow the Herald.

[jimdahl]

More independent coverage would be great, I've been trying for years to persuade some fan(s) to start a Sioux football blog; none of us amateurs seem to have the correct combination of time and knowledge.

However, better coverage from a pro journalist is key in that, since it's their job, they can devote much more time to attending all the media events, gathering obscure info, etc... Keep in mind that to produce the hockey coverage he does, that seems to be almost literally all Brad does. UND has done a decent job at increasing its own coverage over the last two years (promotion is a different story -- still somewhat lacking). I remain reasonably disappointed in the Forum acquisition of the Herald, in that it did cut the professional coverage of major UND sports from two companies to one -- having Forum Comm. be the only professional news organization covering UND sports is a noticeable limitation.

Of course, each UND and the Herald have some limitations to how critically they can cover the team, so I think a mix is important in the long run. I have pondered if there was more I could do. Our biggest asset here is a huge readership, so I can deliver a lot of readers but can't sufficiently monetize that to fund a professional position. If anyone has any ideas of anything more we all can do, don't be shy.