Bemidji State in the WCHA?

[Goon]

i'm not counting those two. those would make it 40. we had 28 conference games and these ten non-conference games:

boston u

massachusettes

cornell (2)

harvard (2)

michigan state

michigan tech (this was a non-conference game at the gli)

bsu (2)

that's 38 games, none of which were exhibition.

We got two more games because we went to Alaska.

[Goon]

I thought CC and DU were the two that voted against expansion, but I'm not completely sure on that.

Who knows how the facualty reps are going to vote. I would be willing to bet a lof these reps are talking much on how they

are going to vote so I am sure a lot of it is pure speculation.

[nodakvindy]

We got two more games because we went to Alaska.

Also, the BU and UMass games were part of the Icebreaker, and Exempted Tournament.

[hockey1]

hell the gophers dont travel anywhere anyhow besides to mich for that tourney when they do so who cares on your end or do you mean make HE teams travel to mariucci as thats what would happen. BSU plays wcha teams every year and wins as well. they can easily hang in the wcha as of now. just let them in. i guess we will see

Thanks for letting me know the Gophers don't travel anywhere because I need to call the hotels in New Hampshire,

Boston, Columbus (Ohio), Ann Arbor, and East Lansing and let them know my credit card was charged for staying there when I guess I didn't.

[krangodance]

We got two more games because we went to Alaska.

right, but somebody posted that we only get 34 games, unless we go to alaska, in which case we get 36 games. my original post about us playing 38 games was in response to that post.

this last post was in response to somebody saying we had two over the 36 game max because we played two exhibition games, but we actually played 40 if you count those two exhibition games.

are you just screwing with me? cause i feel like i'm going in circles here.

my guess is the individual who said we get 34 games (36 if we got to alaska) was incorrect, but i was trying to find out if there is some other factor that allowed us to play two more games, such as playing in the great lakes invitational.

on a side note, i personally think this whole arguement about the importance of playing non-conference teams is a bit weak. we did poorly against non-conference teams this year and still finished eighth in the pwr. just being in the wcha allows us to consistently play tough teams. this year was one of the weakest for the wcha in years and we still made the tournament with a poor non-conference showing.

don't get me wrong, i like playing non-conference teams, but i think six to eight non-conference games a year is plenty. besides, it's a crapshoot anyways since you don't know which non-conference teams are going to be strong and which are going to be weak when the schedule is set.

[krangodance]

my guess is the individual who said we get 34 games (36 if we got to alaska) was incorrect, but i was trying to find out if there is some other factor that allowed us to play two more games, such as playing in the great lakes invitational.

nevermind, i just saw that somebody posted that the icebreaker tournament was exempt.

if we did go to a 30 game conference schedule, i wonder if we'd still be able to play just as many non-conference games? perhaps increasing our conference schedule by two games would increase our maximum allowed games by two as well.

[krangodance]

BSU means less non-conference games. I don't want that. Give me a good HE team, or the continuing Michigan/Michigan State games that the Gophers have over BSU. Sure, BSU has made a good run so far in the playoffs, but I don't think they're good for the league. Good for BSU? Sure. Good for the WCHA? Doubtful.

the goofs position on this is well known. i don't agree with any logic that reduces the number of division one hockey teams, but to each his own.

my opinion:

good for bsu? definitely, they don't have a team if this doesn't happen, so that's a no-brainerl

good for the wcha? i don't see how it hurts the wcha. bsu will have good seasons and i'm confident they will finish in the top five some years.

good for d1 ncaa hockey? absolutely, letting worthy teams (which bsu is) die is terrible for our future as an ncaa sport. this makes the two questions above moot.

[Goon]

right, but somebody posted that we only get 34 games, unless we go to alaska, in which case we get 36 games. my original post about us playing 38 games was in response to that post.

this last post was in response to somebody saying we had two over the 36 game max because we played two exhibition games, but we actually played 40 if you count those two exhibition games.

are you just screwing with me? cause i feel like i'm going in circles here.

my guess is the individual who said we get 34 games (36 if we got to alaska) was incorrect, but i was trying to find out if there is some other factor that allowed us to play two more games, such as playing in the great lakes invitational.

on a side note, i personally think this whole arguement about the importance of playing non-conference teams is a bit weak. we did poorly against non-conference teams this year and still finished eighth in the pwr. just being in the wcha allows us to consistently play tough teams. this year was one of the weakest for the wcha in years and we still made the tournament with a poor non-conference showing.

don't get me wrong, i like playing non-conference teams, but i think six to eight non-conference games a year is plenty. besides, it's a crapshoot anyways since you don't know which non-conference teams are going to be strong and which are going to be weak when the schedule is set.

I had forgot about the Ice Breaker Tourney. I am not screwing with anyone.

[krangodance]

Thanks for letting me know the Gophers don't travel anywhere because I need to call the hotels in New Hampshire,

Boston, Columbus (Ohio), Ann Arbor, and East Lansing and let them know my credit card was charged for staying there when I guess I didn't.

i'm sure he didn't mean you never travel, but it's very rare. you proved that with your post. those four trips you took are spread out over eight seasons, the new hampshire games being in 2002. the gophers have gone on the road for non-conference games seven times in the past eight seasons combined. two of those season they didn't go on the road for even one non-conference game or series.

the sioux, on the other hand, have gone on the road 13 times in that same span for non-conference games or series. really, we could claim a higher number than this because there were a couple instances when we made two stops at two different campuses in one weekend (princeton and yale in 2002, bc and new hampshire in 2004), something the goofs didn't do once in those eight seasons. whenever the goofs have played two non-conference teams in one weekend, it's at a tournament or invitational.

i also noticed that the goofs only played one series against bemidji in that time. it was in 2003 and it was, of course, in mpls. the first night the goofs only one 2-1, which very likely could have gone the other way if the game was played in bemidji. the second night was a 5-1 routing by the goofs, but the beavers are a better team now.

there are probably many emotional reasons not to allow the beavers into the wcha, but there aren't any logical reasons in my opinion.

[krangodance]

I had forgot about the Ice Breaker Tourney. I am not screwing with anyone.

yeah, i didn't know about that one. they should just go with a 38 or 40 game limit and not put any restrictions on which games count and which do not, other than maybe the trip to alaska because i can understand that.

[hockey1]

i'm sure he didn't mean you never travel, but it's very rare. you proved that with your post. those four trips you took are spread out over eight seasons, the new hampshire games being in 2002. the gophers have gone on the road for non-conference games seven times in the past eight seasons combined. two of those season they didn't go on the road for even one non-conference game or series.

the sioux, on the other hand, have gone on the road 13 times in that same span for non-conference games or series. really, we could claim a higher number than this because there were a couple instances when we made two stops at two different campuses in one weekend (princeton and yale in 2002, bc and new hampshire in 2004), something the goofs didn't do once in those eight seasons. whenever the goofs have played two non-conference teams in one weekend, it's at a tournament or invitational.

i also noticed that the goofs only played one series against bemidji in that time. it was in 2003 and it was, of course, in mpls. the first night the goofs only one 2-1, which very likely could have gone the other way if the game was played in bemidji. the second night was a 5-1 routing by the goofs, but the beavers are a better team now.

there are probably many emotional reasons not to allow the beavers into the wcha, but there aren't any logical reasons in my opinion.

I agree, I wish the Gophers would go on the road for more non-conference games mainly because I enjoy road trips, but the notion, as azsioux applied, that they never go on the road is wrong. People can say what they want about the Michigan/ Michigan State series but the fact is they go on the road every other year for those games.

[siouxweet]

one thing to keep in mind is if we start losing d1 hockey teams the number of teams allowed into the tournament(16) could be dropped, say back to 12. we just lost wayne state, who knows what may or may not happen with bowling green and then you have bsu and alabama huntsville that could be 4 teams with 3-4 years.

[siouxweet]

nevermind, i just saw that somebody posted that the icebreaker tournament was exempt.

if we did go to a 30 game conference schedule, i wonder if we'd still be able to play just as many non-conference games? perhaps increasing our conference schedule by two games would increase our maximum allowed games by two as well.

I remeber mcloud saying during one of the gopher telecastes that they have asked to ncaa for more games and the ncaa has said no.

[Goon]

one thing to keep in mind is if we start losing d1 hockey teams the number of teams allowed into the tournament(16) could be dropped, say back to 12. we just lost wayne state, who knows what may or may not happen with bowling green and then you have bsu and alabama huntsville that could be 4 teams with 3-4 years.

I am wondering and have from some time if that is the next carrot and stick approach by the NCAA.

If you listen to McLown it almost sounds as if he is begging the NCAA to step in and fix the problem for

College Hockey.

[sagard]

i'm sure he didn't mean you never travel, but it's very rare.

This shouldn't be in the BSU thread, but enough is enough.

Over the last ten years Gophers:

'98-'99 @BC

'99-'00 @Mich/MichSt.

'99-'00 @Maine

'00-'01 @Bemidji

'01-'02 @Mich/MichSt.

'02-'03 @UNH

'03-'04 @Mich/MichSt.

'03-'04 @Icebreaker Omaha

'04-'05 @Icebreaker Alaska

'04-'05 @BU

'05-'06 @Mich/MichSt.

'06-'07 @OSU

'07-'08 @Mich/MichSt.

I also liked it better when they would go out east more frequently, because then they would get better NC series at home at some point.

Considering the Sioux over the same period:

'99-'00 @Clarkson

'99-'00 @UNH Tourney

'00-'01 @Mich Tourney

'00-'01 @Bemidji

'01-'02 @SLU

'02-'03 @Buffalo Tourney

'02-'03 @Princeton/Yale

'04-'05 @Maine

'04-'05 @BC/NE

'05-'06 @Miami Tourney

'05-'06 @UNH

'06-'07 @Dartmouth Tourney

'06-'07 @Bemidji

'07-'08 @BC/NE

'08-'09 @BU Tourney

'08-'09 @Bemidji

To say the Gophers never travel and the Sioux are road warriors is a little bit of a stretch. Unless three road trips (two of which were @BSU for single games) over ten years is substantial.

On topic. This is really ALL ABOUT MONEY. It always is.

BSU will get into the WCHA, but I'm guessing they will have to forgo playoff revenues for a substantial period of time.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

This shouldn't be in the BSU thread, but enough is enough.

Over the last ten years Gophers:

'98-'99 @BC

'99-'00 @Mich/MichSt.

'99-'00 @Maine

'00-'01 @Bemidji

'01-'02 @Mich/MichSt.

'02-'03 @UNH

'03-'04 @Mich/MichSt.

'03-'04 @Icebreaker Omaha

'04-'05 @Icebreaker Alaska

'04-'05 @BU

'05-'06 @Mich/MichSt.

'06-'07 @OSU

'07-'08 @Mich/MichSt.

I also liked it better when they would go out east more frequently, because then they would get better NC series at home at some point.

Considering the Sioux over the same period:

'99-'00 @Clarkson

'99-'00 @UNH Tourney

'00-'01 @Mich Tourney

'00-'01 @Bemidji

'01-'02 @SLU

'02-'03 @Buffalo Tourney

'02-'03 @Princeton/Yale

'04-'05 @Maine

'04-'05 @BC/NE

'05-'06 @Miami Tourney

'05-'06 @UNH

'06-'07 @Dartmouth Tourney

'06-'07 @Bemidji

'07-'08 @BC/NE

'08-'09 @BU Tourney

'08-'09 @Bemidji

To say the Gophers never travel and the Sioux are road warriors is a little bit of a stretch. Unless three road trips (two of which were @BSU for single games) over ten years is substantial.

On topic. This is really ALL ABOUT MONEY. It always is.

BSU will get into the WCHA, but I'm guessing they will have to forgo playoff revenues for a substantial period of time.

You are forgetting...

For the Sioux:

'08-'09 - 2 @ GLI

'08-'09 - 2 @ Harvard

'05-'06 - 1 @ Bemidji

'01-02 - 2 @ GLI

'00-'01 - 2 @ Icebreaker - UNH

'00-'01 - 2 @ Maine

'00-'01 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

'99-'00 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

So instead of 3 road trips, it's actually 11, and instead of 4 games, it's actually 19.

The Sioux have gone out "East" 13 times, while the Gophers have gone out 4 times.

[Goon]

The Sioux have gone out "East" 13 times, while the Gophers have gone out 4 times.

I am not good at math but 13 > 4.

[mikejm]

You are forgetting...

For the Sioux:

'08-'09 - 2 @ GLI

'08-'09 - 2 @ Harvard

'05-'06 - 1 @ Bemidji

'01-02 - 2 @ GLI

'00-'01 - 2 @ Icebreaker - UNH

'00-'01 - 2 @ Maine

'00-'01 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

'99-'00 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

So instead of 3 road trips, it's actually 11, and instead of 4 games, it's actually 19.

The Sioux have gone out "East" 13 times, while the Gophers have gone out 4 times.

Thanks for this.

I was pretty sure the Sioux had been on the road a lot more than what was listed, but at my age, and with all the chemicals that've been through my system, you just never know...

[hockey1]

You are forgetting...

For the Sioux:

'08-'09 - 2 @ GLI

'08-'09 - 2 @ Harvard

'05-'06 - 1 @ Bemidji

'01-02 - 2 @ GLI

'00-'01 - 2 @ Icebreaker - UNH

'00-'01 - 2 @ Maine

'00-'01 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

'99-'00 - 2 @ Badger Showdown

So instead of 3 road trips, it's actually 11, and instead of 4 games, it's actually 19.

The Sioux have gone out "East" 13 times, while the Gophers have gone out 4 times.

The point is as Sagard pointed out, the Gophers do travel for non-confrence games. Maybe not out east as much as the Sioux do but they do travel. I agree this should not be in the BSU thread.

[mksioux]

I am wondering and have from some time if that is the next carrot and stick approach by the NCAA.

If you listen to McLown it almost sounds as if he is begging the NCAA to step in and fix the problem for

College Hockey.

And why is that bad? The NCAA should take a more active role in helping college hockey. Whether it's the NCAA or some other body, there needs to be an overarching college hockey authority. If there had been this kind of leadership, it may not have gotten to the point where the CHA disbanded, forcing the choice of adding to already-bloated conferences or having programs fold. You can't leave the well being of "college hockey" up the individual leagues. Like him or not, Bruce McLeod's primary fiduciary duty is to do what's in the best interests of the WCHA, not college hockey in general.

I hate the idea of these five bloated conferences, but it's gotten to the point where there is no other alternative. Therefore, it would be really nice if the NCAA allowed more games, which would make BSU's admittance into the WCHA a shoe-in. But it won't, so there's no sense thinking about the possibility of more games. Likewise, the WCHA adding more league games (without more overall games allowed by the NCAA) is not likely. There are too many schools the value non-conference games too much. Just listen to Dave Hakstol talk about the importance of scheduling quality non-conference games. It's true they didn't work out well for UND this year, but more often than not, the non-conference games help UND in the PWR. Plus, the average fan likes a little variety in scheduling and likes CCHA and eastern teams coming to the Ralph once in a while. And the average fan also likes seeing home games against Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Denver. There is no easy solution to this problem. You add BSU, you take away games against rivals. You don't add BSU, BSU's program dies. Given that choice, you have to add BSU, but it's a lesser-of-two-evils decision IMO. I think it will get worked out one way or another and BSU will be admitted into the WCHA, but the reluctance out there is understandable because this is a decision that is being forced on the WCHA.

And on the off-topic thread split, perhaps Minnesota does not travel for non-conference games as often as UND, but I'm sure Don Lucia would rather schedule more home-and-home arrangements with quality non-conference opponents than scheduling a softer home-heavy non-conference schedule. I think that would help Minnesota in the PWR. I've heard that the administration calls the shots on that and requires a certain number of homes games. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. From a Sioux fan's perspective, if Minnesota wants to limit it's competitive advantage, I don't have a problem with that.

[Goon]

And why is that bad? The NCAA should take a more active role in helping college hockey. Whether it's the NCAA or some other body, there needs to be an overarching college hockey authority. If there had been this kind of leadership, it may not have gotten to the point where the CHA disbanded, forcing the choice of adding to already-bloated conferences or having programs fold. You can't leave the well being of "college hockey" up the individual leagues. Like him or not, Bruce McLeod's primary fiduciary duty is to do what's in the best interests of the WCHA, not college hockey in general.

I think it just shows the poor leadership of the WCHA under the current commish. In fact everyone kept kicking the can down the road and didn't want to do anything about it. IIRC McLeod's contract comes up for renewal and I think now would be a perfect time for the WCHA to go in a different direction.

[sagard]

I am not good at math but 13 > 4.

Apparently I only understand 7>5.

Sorry for the screw up, UM education at it's best.

I'm hoping I missed as many Gopher series, but I doubt it because I didn't have to read through USCHO seasons to find them.

Carry on.

[AZSIOUX]

i'm sure he didn't mean you never travel, but it's very rare. you proved that with your post. those four trips you took are spread out over eight seasons, the new hampshire games being in 2002. the gophers have gone on the road for non-conference games seven times in the past eight seasons combined. two of those season they didn't go on the road for even one non-conference game or series.

the sioux, on the other hand, have gone on the road 13 times in that same span for non-conference games or series. really, we could claim a higher number than this because there were a couple instances when we made two stops at two different campuses in one weekend (princeton and yale in 2002, bc and new hampshire in 2004), something the goofs didn't do once in those eight seasons. whenever the goofs have played two non-conference teams in one weekend, it's at a tournament or invitational.

i also noticed that the goofs only played one series against bemidji in that time. it was in 2003 and it was, of course, in mpls. the first night the goofs only one 2-1, which very likely could have gone the other way if the game was played in bemidji. the second night was a 5-1 routing by the goofs, but the beavers are a better team now.

there are probably many emotional reasons not to allow the beavers into the wcha, but there aren't any logical reasons in my opinion.

exactly, 8 seasons. its been dicussed here by sagard and gopher33 to maybe why they dont. thats fine but im stating a fact that they hardly ever travel. usually just the michigan tourney. thats my point when others go out east once or twice a season or to a ccha arena here and there. thats all

and yes back to topic

LET THE BEAVS IN

[AZSIOUX]

Thanks for letting me know the Gophers don't travel anywhere because I need to call the hotels in New Hampshire,

Boston, Columbus (Ohio), Ann Arbor, and East Lansing and let them know my credit card was charged for staying there when I guess I didn't.

like i stated my point is they hardly trael. as pointed out those were over 8 seasons. thats my point. i dont care one way or another. just pointing out they hardly travel non conference and its proven in the chedules going back a ways. thats all. the michigan tourney is usually the only one every season with a few spread in here and there.

go sioux

go beavers

lets the beavs in

[sagard]

And on the off-topic thread split, perhaps Minnesota does not travel for non-conference games as often as UND, but I'm sure Don Lucia would rather schedule more home-and-home arrangements with quality non-conference opponents than scheduling a softer home-heavy non-conference schedule. I think that would help Minnesota in the PWR. I've heard that the administration calls the shots on that and requires a certain number of homes games. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. From a Sioux fan's perspective, if Minnesota wants to limit it's competitive advantage, I don't have a problem with that.

The only problem is that now with the new RPI formula, playing a strong schedule actually hurts you. Cupcake city actually gives a team a better shot.