America's Taxation System

[Oxbow6]

That's snob, not slob. I guess your reading comprehension could use some improvement, eh?

Fixed my post. Thanks for getting a "fact" finally right, though. The fact still remains you generally bring nothing of value to any of these threads. But as I mentioned previously, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Oxbow6]

That's snob, not slob. I guess your reading comprehension could use some improvement, eh?

PS - 40% of American families are over 50K in debt because those people are underpaid. Try to make ends meet on the salary of a bartender, waitress, cab driver, retail worker, the guy who changes oil at Jiffy Lube, etc... Those who live a privileged lifestyle tend to become ignorant as to the struggles of others who are less fortunate. That isn't "refuting" anything, it merely is what it is.

Ah, ok...again always someone else's fault! You roll with that DaveK. Does that fact that those careers have a limited skill set or education requirements have anything to do with it? Again, it come back to choices and decisions. Not belittling those careers, but they are what they are. But if a person takes one of those career paths by choice and because they don't make as much as someone else, they are underpaid? Supply and demand works in the job market and with wages too, DaveK. By the way, it is the bartender, waitress or cab driver that gives out of their pocket to the local Red Cross, Salavation Army or YWCA? Not so much, but again I know why...I have all the money? You are bitter person about our American society. Move to France and run for political office there and you would be elected in a landslide.

[Oxbow6]

That isn't a fact, it's your opinion. I respect everybody's right to their own opinion, even ignorant individuals such as yourself.

PS - Funny how somebody getting paid an obscene amount of money to perform as job as important as yours has so much free time to be competing in message board pissing matches with somebody as insignificant as myself.

Just thought I'd try out your philosophy. Kinda like it. Was on-call so sitting in my office catching up on the government charting requirements so I can become wealthier .

[Flatland]

So if everyone is entitled to ~$50K a year, you are willing to pay increased costs for this? Could you imagine all of the restaurants that would shut down? Any industry that relies heavily on labor would be forced to shut down (or move somewhere else). The prices for any type of service would go up significantly. You would force the poorest of us to pay more for the basics. I would have to change my own oil and cut my own hair. (Fortunately, I'm losing it, so that problem will go away. )

The fact is that the market sets the price. Doctors are paid more because there are not very many of them. A bartender is not paid very much because there are a lot of people who can do the job.

[Oxbow6]

Again, you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that anybody who earns less than 50K/year working a full-time job is underpaid and anybody who earns more than 500K/year is overpaid. Contrary to your repeated accusations, I have not refuted anything. I have merely stated how I feel, and you have come back with the holier than thou attitude that you seem to think you're better than me because your opinion on the topic is different than mine. But you are right about one thing, I am bitter about our American society. It has evolved into a cesspool of greed over the course of the last 30 years or so. The descrepancy between the have's and the have-not's was not as vast a generation ago as it is today. Hopefully Obama will start to makes some drastic changes if and when he wins the election.

Holier than thou? No, I just don't agree with the concept of socialism and the philospohy of what mine is mine and what is yours is mine plus throw in this spreading mentality of entitlement. And it is this entitlement mentality that has part of the equation in the haves and have nots disparity. Why try to better yourself when someone else can do that for you and by the way, I DESERVE it! Obama will more than likely win and I'll pay more in taxes and the beat will go on. Everything is what it is DaveK. You just need to figure that out and try not to point the finger at everyone else.

[Flatland]

That's where I think the taxation system could be improved. Obviously somebody has to do those jobs. If there were no people available to fill those positions our way of life would become extinct. People who perform those important but not highly compensated jobs could be given greater tax relief at the expense of those who can afford it (the ultra-wealthy). After all, everybody needs to pay their bills (even those who perform jobs that lots of people can do). Not that I'm in a position of power to do anything about it, but I am in a position to vote for somebody who proposes doing something about it.

Actually, I don't quite think I made my point. The fact is that those positions (bartenders, barbers) would stop existing because people would refuse to pay for them. Many of those jobs do not need to exist. They exist because people want things. There are some needs to be filled obviously, but most jobs would be eliminated.

If the government adjusted it's tax code to redistribute wealth (so that the minimum wage was $50K), then where is my incentive to go through college and get a degree for a job that would normally pay, say $55K? This is a definite way to create a permanent lower class. There will be a glut of workers who would rather be paid the $50K than go through college. As a result, you would loose many educated workers that the US economy needs to compete in the international market.

Actually, the ones who actually did go through college would probably wind up with even higher salaries because of a low supply of educated personnel. This would widen the salary base even more than we have now and would very likely make your problem (a more evenly distributed income) worse. As a continuation, you might say, "Then the government will determine a base salary for any job to prevent this from happening." This will create a shortage and there will be a lack of people to do the job. I would imagine at this point that a significant black market would start to pop up to compensate for government interference similar to the one that operated in the old Soviet Union.

[BringDeanBack]

I think I figured out why visits to the doctor take so long. While I'm in waiting room 3B, my doc is in the other room furiously posting messages on siouxsports.com!

[Oxbow6]

Actually, I don't quite think I made my point. The fact is that those positions (bartenders, barbers) would stop existing because people would refuse to pay for them. Many of those jobs do not need to exist. They exist because people want things. There are some needs to be filled obviously, but most jobs would be eliminated.

If the government adjusted it's tax code to redistribute wealth (so that the minimum wage was $50K), then where is my incentive to go through college and get a degree for a job that would normally pay, say $55K? This is a definite way to create a permanent lower class. There will be a glut of workers who would rather be paid the $50K than go through college. As a result, you would loose many educated workers that the US economy needs to compete in the international market.

Actually, the ones who actually did go through college would probably wind up with even higher salaries because of a low supply of educated personnel. This would widen the salary base even more than we have now and would very likely make your problem (a more evenly distributed income) worse. As a continuation, you might say, "Then the government will determine a base salary for any job to prevent this from happening." This will create a shortage and there will be a lack of people to do the job. I would imagine at this point that a significant black market would start to pop up to compensate for government interference similar to the one that operated in the old Soviet Union.

Very well stated and exactly on point!

[Oxbow6]

I think I figured out why visits to the doctor take so long. While I'm in waiting room 3B, my doc is in the other room furiously posting messages on siouxsports.com!

Haha! Good one. My patient encounters start a 1 pm today and I DON'T run late. My patient's time is as valuable as mine!

[siouxweet]

This thread so far demonstrates why I've always feared politics on the board. People who could otherwise happily sit around debating the Sioux become absolute jerks to each other, and it's likely to taint their impressions and reactions to each other's Sioux-related posts outside this thread, this doing actual long-term harm to the community.

I was leery when I saw a post on taxation, but hoped a discussion on economics could occur without becoming political. Ever the optimist, I'll resist the temptation to just close the thread, but please only continue debating if you can do so without the personal attacks on each other. This is certainly an area in which good people can disagree.

I find this debate thoroughly entertaining.

[STS]

That's just it. When the rich get richer at the expense of the middle and lower class, there's no good reason why they should be given incentive to hog an even bigger portion of the wealth than they're already hogging. The descrepancy between the have's and the have-not's is already way too big for the good of our nation as a whole. Those of us who are not among the 20% who selfishly hog 80% of the wealth can barely afford to pay our bills as it is, while the high rollers live in their mansions and go on exotic vacations every other week as they whine about having to pay more taxes than the rest of us who are not as fortunate as they are.

Freakin' unbelievable. So you want to provide an incentive to make less money? That'll do great things for the country. Worked for the U.S.S.R. right? What exactly is the man doing to keep you down Dave?

[LB#11]

Freakin' unbelievable. So you want to provide an incentive to make less money? That'll do great things for the country. Worked for the U.S.S.R. right? What exactly is the man doing to keep you down Dave?

This country is headed right towards socialism, expect big changes after November 4th. Here's a top 10 list to chew on:

1) Hillary Clinton will be named to the Supreme Court.

2) Very strick gun laws will come into effect.

3) Obama will renege on his pledge to Israel and leave them to the wolves of Islam.

4) TAX RATES will surge to the highest levels in 30 years.

5) Wesley Clark will be named Secretary of Defense.

6) "In God We Trust" will be removed from all currency.

7) Our borders will be open to all comers, especially from the Middle East & South America.

8) CAPITAL GAINS TAX will be at least double current levels.

9) Amnesty will be granted to all illegals in the U.S., regardless of status or even gang membership.

10) Our presence in Iraq will come to an abrupt end-with tragic results to their citizens and devastating consequences to our military.

I know only 2 of these pertain to the subject being discussed...just needed to let everyone know what other wonderful things we have to look forward to.

[GeauxSioux]

This country is headed right towards socialism, expect big changes after November 4th. Here's a top 10 list to chew on:

1) Hillary Clinton will be named to the Supreme Court.

2) Very strick gun laws will come into effect.

3) Obama will renege on his pledge to Israel and leave them to the wolves of Islam.

4) TAX RATES will surge to the highest levels in 30 years.

5) Wesley Clark will be named Secretary of Defense.

6) "In God We Trust" will be removed from all currency.

7) Our borders will be open to all comers, especially from the Middle East & South America.

8) CAPITAL GAINS TAX will be at least double current levels.

9) Amnesty will be granted to all illegals in the U.S., regardless of status or even gang membership.

10) Our presence in Iraq will come to an abrupt end-with tragic results to their citizens and devastating consequences to our military.

I know only 2 of these pertain to the subject being discussed...just needed to let everyone know what other wonderful things we have to look forward to.

This very topic (what would happen if) was discussed at our office today. The scary thing is, I couldn't argue with you on any of these points.

[siouxweet]

This country is headed right towards socialism, expect big changes after November 4th. Here's a top 10 list to chew on:

1) Hillary Clinton will be named to the Supreme Court.

2) Very strick gun laws will come into effect.

3) Obama will renege on his pledge to Israel and leave them to the wolves of Islam.

4) TAX RATES will surge to the highest levels in 30 years.

5) Wesley Clark will be named Secretary of Defense.

6) "In God We Trust" will be removed from all currency.

7) Our borders will be open to all comers, especially from the Middle East & South America.

8) CAPITAL GAINS TAX will be at least double current levels.

9) Amnesty will be granted to all illegals in the U.S., regardless of status or even gang membership.

10) Our presence in Iraq will come to an abrupt end-with tragic results to their citizens and devastating consequences to our military.

I know only 2 of these pertain to the subject being discussed...just needed to let everyone know what other wonderful things we have to look forward to.

I see hillary as sec. of state. but the rest I agree with.