WYOBISONMAN Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 OK....I give up. Who in the Heck were Bohl and Taylor paired with (at the Maris golf tourney)? Being so far from the valley I miss a few of these interesting little items. What is the story here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 The Sicatoka, I can't decide which word describes your writing style better, mincing or simpering. Can you help me out on this? Phrases like, "how shall we say it" suggest simpering, as does the frequent use of quotation marks and emoticons to suggest irony. On the other hand, "Don't blame me for the title of this thread" and [NDSU's actions] "could be spun as arrogant and pretentious" indicate mincing. I have gotten after you for this before but, ever hopeful, I'll try again. If you have an opinion, why noy express it forthrightly rather than resorting to foppish sideways talking? You are intelligent, now try being forthright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 I too believe that the NCAA moves will push UND toward DI. Current FargoDome revenues really aren't working in favor of a new arena right now. ... now is not the time. What'd I mince there oh great literary sage? And that's not simpering. That's a summary of the current state of affairs. I'm thinking you need more jocularity in your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 The Sicatoka, with any written communication the reader can have trouble discerning the writer's actual tone. True, I criticize your way of expressing yourself, but I'm not angry. In fact, I'm practically bursting with jocularity. In response to your post, I never claimed that you minced and simpered in every sentence of every post. On the other hand, from my experience with your writing, I assume that there's some sort of passive-aggressive subtext in all of your posts touching on NDSU. Obviously, you don't recognize this pattern yourself. What else could explain why you'd address me as "oh great literary sage" while trying to defend your writing style? I'm not even sure what to call that phrase because it's half-mincing and half-simpering (mimpering?). Expressing yourself directly should not be a burden for a North Dakotan like yourself. For example, if you think I write badly or that I'm showing off, what's wrong with expressing the thought directly? To tie this back to the main thread a bit, this passive-aggressive BS that goes on between NDSU and UND should stop. More honest dialog, less mimpering - that's what I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 OK....I give up. Who in the Heck were Bohl and Taylor paired with (at the Maris golf tourney)? Being so far from the valley I miss a few of these interesting little items. What is the story here? If you go to Roger Maris Golf and click on "pairings" you can see. They were in the second grouping. Hint 1: He owns hotels Hint 2: He likes softball and baseball Looky Here: Taylor lays out plans for Dome, BSA Looks like NDSU is working on facilities as well . Here's a thought: If NDSU and the Fargodome could raise the funds for the FargoArena, it wouldn't have to go to a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 So why is my writing style so important? Sure, I'm passive-aggressive and I know it. But why focus on that and not the points brought out? Plus you're pretty good at the return volley when you choose to. (And sometimes you have to ask yourself if I'm not doing it just to grind your gears. ) So, let me express my observations clearly: Carr Report said: Strategic Plan, Improve the Athletic Support Systems, Secure Acceptable Conference Membership, then (and only then) Begin to Reclassify. UND appears to be better following the steps of NDSU's consultant's report than NDSU is. However, I do not know if that is course or coincidence. I, as previously stated, hope it is course but do not know this. Regarding the Forum article on facilities: I find that to be a very rational approach in method and timeline. Where is the $8-10 million for the expansion coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 UND appears to be better following the steps of NDSU's consultant's report than NDSU is. * - if UND were to reclassify, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Regarding the Forum article on facilities: I find that to be a very rational approach in method and timeline. Where is the $8-10 million for the expansion coming from? From The Forum: A Kansas City-based architecture firm is finalizing NDSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Sicatoka, I'd rather talk to a person who states their own views than somebody else's. I can never tell what you're trying to say. UND is not in the process of going DI. UND is not following the Carr Report better than NDSU because UND has no Carr Report. NDSU doesn't have a conference affiliation yet, but they will get one. NDSU has not handled the public relations angle of the conference hunt well. They should have made it more clear that finding a conference could be a long process. NDSU will get a conference. DII is not getting any better. I believe that NDSU made the right decision. It is true that UND, by waiting, could have an easier time of going DI. Brag about that when the time comes but know this: NDSU's hard work will have paved the way for UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 UND is not following the Carr Report better than NDSU because UND has no Carr Report.Nice try. One only has to scroll up to see what Sicatoka actually said: UND appears to be better following the steps of NDSU's consultant's report than NDSU is. Sicatoka said that UND is following NDSU's consultant's own report better than NDSU is. In that same post, he even allowed as to how he wasn't claiming it was an intentional path to a transition, but rather could just be coincidence. It has nothing do with UND having announced a formal reclassification study or not, nor has anyone claimed that NDSU will never again belong to a conference. It seems like you were just trying to throw out as many non-connected tautologies as you could to dispute arguments that no one is making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Jim, UND has no Carr Report because they have done nothing. That's my point. NDSU is looking for a DI conference. UND is not. If NDSU starts the 2004 season with no conference, then you will win this argument. Of course, Sicatoka didn't say that UND is planning on going DI, he never says anything directly. That's my problem with him. How can you have a dialogue with somebody who never says anything directly? I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean by "non-connected tautologies" even with the help of a dictionary I stated some facts as well as some opinions, not arguments. If you are going to use the language of logic, view my opinions as propositions and if you believe one of them is false, disagree directly (pretty please). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 jimdahl: Thank you. I was begining to wonder what argument was happening that I was missing. tony: I believe you are looking for a fight that does not exist. You are parsing every possible statement for any possible hint of impropriety towards NDSU and believe you have succeeded, even when there is none to be found. You state "I stated some facts as well as some opinions, not arguments." What have we done that is any different? Both jimdahl and I have both clearly stated that we believe UND should look at Division I(AA). What more clear statement do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I'm not looking for a fight, Sicatoka, although it would be a refreshing change from just BEGGING and BROWBEATING you in the vain hope that you will tell me what you think. Let's start over. I've made some propositions and asked whether anybody agrees or disagrees with them. So? Do you agree or disagree with them? Here they are again: Proposition 1: UND is not in the process of going DI. Proposition 2: NDSU will get a conference. Proposition 3: NDSU's administration did not make it clear enough that getting a conference could be difficult. At least they didn't get their point across to some people. Proposition 4: DII is not getting any better. Proposition 5: NDSU made the right decision. Proposition 6: If UND goes DI, the way will have been cleared for them in large part by the current efforts of NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 ... tell me what you think. ... (I) believe UND should look at Division I(AA). How much more clear can one be? I'll only comment on propositions 5 and 6: 5. The Carr Report to NDSU directly, objectively refutes this opinion that you hold. 6. Nearly 50 years of national championship caliber play and reputation in Division I ice hockey will be equally useful to UND if they were to choose the Division I path. I'll let jimdahl take on the rest of your propositions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Sicatoka, is that by any chance Lakota for "Guy who talks like a snake crawls?" You could be much clearer. Do you agree with propositions 1-4? Proposition 5 - I know what the Carr Report contained. I want to know what, if anything, you think. Don't hide behind other people's opinions. Proposition 6 - excellent, you made direct point. I could argue it but I'm so happy to know that you have exhibited the ability to have a thought and express it that I won't. We won't know who is right until UND goes DI anyway. It might not even happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 3, 2003 Author Share Posted July 3, 2003 It is Lakota, but you need a much better dictionary. UND has not begun the process. Based on my observations, that would require faxing a letter to the NCAA and the NCC and holding a press conference. NDSU will find a home eventually. They left a good one before making reservations on a new place to call home. Carr Sport Associates defines that as a wrong path. NDSU's administration should have been more clear, you bet. Division II has not reached a point beyond repair. Let me be very direct here: You pointing out passive aggressive behavior in others is quite ironic. Why? Because the scrolling marquee at your site has been known to include the phrase "hockey sucks." Explain why that particular phrase on a site to discuss NDSU athletics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 The point, Tony, is that you're listing random propositions that have absolutely nothing to do with Sicatoka's point: UND is following NDSU's consultants' recommendations better than NDSU is. Again, he even allowed as to how he didn't mean to imply that it's evidence that UND is secretly plotting a D-IAA move, he just found it interesting. You didn't like what Sicatoka said so listed a bunch of "propositions" that you wanted to talk about. No problem, many of them may be fine discussion points; however, it's confusing because you're claiming your propositions are a response to Sicatoka's original point (in bold above for handy reference), though for the most part they seem entirely unrelated. Yes, we all know UND has not hired any consultants, he said UND is doing better at following NDSU's consultants' report. Yes, we all know UND has not announced any reclassification, but that's not relevant to his point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSU grad Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Since Tony seems to be getting double-teamed here, I thought I would join the fray. I find it odd that Carr said a conference affiliation was needed before reclassification. Do you guys think that is possible? It's looking to me like no DI conference will offer membership to a DII school. You're probably going to throw UC-Davis invitation to the Big West in my face, but that looks like the exception rather than the rule. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 I agree, the requirement to find a conference before moving is particularly onerous and Davis is definitely in a unique situation. The bottom line, though, is that NDSU hired a consultant who was an expert in reclassification and that's what the expert consultant recommended. It takes incredible hubris to tout the consultants' opinion that reclassification will succeed, as NDSU did, but then to simultaneously ignore the steps that the consultant indicated were key to the validity of the analysis. Keep in mind that SDSU had the same consultants and got the same recommendation. However, the SD government followed the report and forbade SDSU from reclassifying without first securing a conference. Even with that onerous barrier, the SDSU administration still seems to think SDSU will reclassify next year. I guess that will be the real test of how realistic such a restriction is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Proposition 6: If UND goes DI, the way will have been cleared for them in large part by the current efforts of NDSU. We certainly appreciate the efforts of the red-headed stepchild of North Dakota higher education in "leading the way" to exalted DI status. It's nice that Chaps and the rest of the Stream Yellow crowd feel that a DI "conference" involves schools with no geographic or historic connection to 'SU. Moreover, I think that the Sioux fanbase will appreciate the efforts of SU in satisfying Chaps' Viagra-deficient ego, as we trod on your bloody, bloated carcass on our eventual march to D1. BTW: We're hosting a few "real" D1 schools in hockey in 2003-04 if you really want to see one up close, or can even grasp the concept of hockey ... empty promises of an 'SU hockey program playing in the FloodDome notwithstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 A few UND fans have spent too much time at the UM hockey board, PrideOnIce. Come on "Red headed step child and Jan brady U" you surely can do better. Also remember that hockey means nothing to the rest of the country. Even in Minnesota the vast majority of people could care less. The majority of High Schools don't even have a hockey program. It will always be basketball and football! (Probably not 1AA football) The UofM did not even sell out their allotment of tickets for the frozen four. PS. THE SEATING IN THIRD REICH ARENA IS HORRIBLE. YOU FEEL LIKE ONE IS ESCAPING FROM THE NAZI DEATH CAMP AT THE END OF THE GAME. NO LEG ROOM AND BUTT ROOM. IT LOOKS GOOD THOUGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmduf Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 PS. THE SEATING IN THIRD REICH ARENA IS HORRIBLE. YOU FEEL LIKE ONE IS ESCAPING FROM THE NAZI DEATH CAMP AT THE END OF THE GAME. NO LEG ROOM AND BUTT ROOM. What are you complaining about? There are plenty of handicapped seats for our "challenged" NDSU friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I assume you are talking about being challenged mantally. Why would I need a special seat for that? And I AM NOT a NDSU fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 PS. THE SEATING IN THIRD REICH ARENA IS HORRIBLE. YOU FEEL LIKE ONE IS ESCAPING FROM THE NAZI DEATH CAMP AT THE END OF THE GAME. NO LEG ROOM AND BUTT ROOM. IT LOOKS GOOD THOUGH Mind your manners on another team's board, junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 OK Daddy (senior). UNDer achiever fans can dish it but they can't take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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