NDSU: Status Low

[The Sicatoka]

Don't blame me for the title of this thread. I'm just repeating the headline in the Fargo Forum.

"Status low: Scheduling hassles among obstacles NDSU faces as an independent in

[Bison_Kent]

Going to DI was very thought of being easy. If it was everyone would move up. The first years are going to be tough. No one ever thought otherwise. It is the long term that we are looking at.

There was some good news though in the article. Although an automatic bid can't happen for 13 years in the NCAA tournament, an at-large bid is attainable after the 4 year probationary period. I know the men's team probably won't compete for this (at least at first) but the women's team possibly could or at least an NIT bid.

Also, football and wrestling won't be effected as heavily. These two sports are the top 2 men's sports at NDSU anyway. Wrestling might not have any probationary period. Also, four years is probably what we need to see how to compete at the I-AA level.

I am all in favor of this even though we have yet to secure a current conference in any sport. NDSU is a division I school. I also think UND is for all sports as well. It will be just be a matter of time until the push is there at UND to do the same thing NDSU is doing.

[ScottM]

"Status low: Scheduling hassles among obstacles NDSU faces as an independent in

[BisonMav]

Bison_Kent Posted on Jun 29 2003, 10:50 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am all in favor of this even though we have yet to secure a current conference in any sport. NDSU is a division I school. I also think UND is for all sports as well. It will be just be a matter of time until the push is there at UND to do the same thing NDSU is doing. 

Kent,

I just do not think UND will make the move even though they do have the facilities and budget. Most Universities have a primary sport, and at UND it is hockey. Football, basketball etc, are secondary. If the NCAA rule that considers hockey a minor sport, making it possible to have Division I hockey and other sports at a lower division changes, then UND will make the move to keep hockey at the level it is. Hockey is the center of the universe at UND

[The Sicatoka]

Of course hockey is the center of the athletics universe at UND.

Seven NCAA titles at the highest level of NCAA play and drawing 250,000 people per season at $16 per ticket it has to be. It is the fuel that makes it all go. You don't hurt the goose laying golden eggs.

Now regarding rules with exceptions and "minor sports" and the like: Couldn't the IAA/IAAA rule be regarded as an exception allowing teams to "play down" to where they might be able to compete? Wasn't that why IAA was created in the first place, for the minor football programs?

[jimdahl]

No doubt hockey is king at UND. I have a bit different take than BisonMav on how that affects UND's willingness to consider D-IAA:

• UND's marquee sport being revenue positive helps athletics as a whole. We've already seen a willingness by the UND athletic department to use the success and revenue of the hockey program to benefit other sports (REA sports center announcement was quite timely for this point). UND hockey is currently at its peak with tremendous new facilities, high attendance, and recent national success. While that means the gap between attention toward hockey and other sports is at its widest, in absolute terms the other sports will actually benefit from the increased revenues.
  
• UND's marquee sport already being D-I eliminates worries about reduced competitiveness following a move. A school like UND can be more competitive in D-IAA football than in other sports which aren't tiered. However, moving to D-I/D-IAA doesn't actually hurt hockey since UND already plays hockey at the D-I level. This is a sharp contrast from if basketball were king at UND, where there would be a legitimate concern about our ability to compete nationally at the D-I level. With hockey as the driving sport at UND, there's no concern about whether we'd rather compete for D-II championships or D-I conference championships; hockey would be completely unaffected by a move.
  

It's no secret that I'm proponent of NDSU & UND moving, so wishful thinking certainly colors my interpretation. UND has definitely shown extreme caution in this area, and I suspect at this point will wait until NDSU's situation stabilizes so it can fully integrate NDSU's successes/difficulties into its own analysis.

[BisonMav]

jimdahl Posted on Jun 30 2003, 01:26 PM

With hockey as the driving sport at UND, there's no concern about whether we'd rather compete for D-II championships or D-I conference championships; hockey would be completely unaffected by a move.

You may have said it better, but this is the point of why I do not think UND will move the other sports to Division I. There is no urgency or desire. If the NCAA passed a rule that all sports had to be in the same division, then UND would move everything else up. Then there would be urgency and desire.

The Sicatoka Posted: Jun 30 2003, 12:43 PM 

Now regarding rules with exceptions and "minor sports" and the like: Couldn't the IAA/IAAA rule be regarded as an exception allowing teams to "play down" to where they might be able to compete? Wasn't that why IAA was created in the first place, for the minor football programs?

Probably

[WYOBISONMAN]

I don't think any of the Bison faithful or the administration at NDSU thought the move to D1 was going to be a cake walk. I think things are going about as well as one could expect. the move to D1 is really a vision for the future. We see a bright future for athletics at NDSU. A future that will put us much more in the national spotlight and clearly heightens the visibility of the school. A few bumps along the way are to be expected. I am looking 7 to 10 years out. I think that Kolpack is not at all accurate by saying "Status Low". I think it should be "Business as Expected".

[The Sicatoka]

While NDSU continues to search for a Division I conference, UND continues to build Division I caliber facilities, like the new REA - Sports Center.

Facilities in place and paid for is money that won't have to be raised later.

Quality facilities generate cash flow for the athletics program.

What a horrible situation to be in come whatever may.

[tony]

The hard work that NDSU is doing now should make a future move to DI by UND much easier. I guess The Sicatoka's point must be, "Thank you NDSU for doing this. Good luck. is there anything I can do to help?"

One thing I've always liked about NDSU is that from top to bottom, they seem to have a "can do" attitude about things. If there's something they don't like, they try to change it, rather than carping about it. Of course, I'm talking about the administration here as NDSU fans have been complaining about DII for a long time.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Glad to here you are building D1 facilities. I am not sure why you need them for a D2 team. Maybe UND is finally figuring out that NDSU is moving in the right direction.

[jimdahl]

I don't think anyone is disputing that UND is being particularly cautious, to the point of not even formally studying a move yet; a sharp contrast from NDSU, which decided to jump in head first and work out the details on the way.

Those styles reflect the current administrations, but not necessarily the fans. I know a lot of UND fans who wish that UND was being more aggressive, just as I know a lot of NDSU fans wish NDSU was being a little more cautious.

That said, I can't imagine why any Sioux fans would demand that a division reclassification precede using the profits from our highly-attended and profitable athletics programs to replace aging facilities.

[ScottM]

I would bet that the NC$$'s continued squeezing of the DII rules will create more of an impetus for UND to go DI, rather than the vanity and caprice of administrators and others. I'm *quite* certain that SU's moves, missteps and progress are being monitored closely so that we don't have the same issues, as I believe a move is ultimately inevitable. That said, I'd rather 'SU expend its own money, political capital and the reputations of its leadership now if it benefits us in the future. It never hurts to step over the body of your enemies if you can gain something from it.

[tony]

Uh, yeah, Scott. NDSU is your enemy and "stepping over their bodies" would please you? At least you're honest about it.

[The Sicatoka]

One is taking the charge right in approach and will have a lot of issues to work out down the road (the primary being facilities).

One is taking a measured approach, cautious if you will. They are laying in infrastructure (facilities and revenue streams) that will benefit them no matter which road may rise up to meet them.

As easily as one approach could be spun as retentive and overly reserved the other could be spun as arrogant and pretentious.

I too believe that the NCAA moves will push UND toward DI. But when everyone is DI what good will that be? It's almost like things are reverting back to the pre-1973 model (two levels).

Watching someone else and using them as experience by proxy isn't a bad thing in my opinion. (As a matter of fact it follows directly with the rest of the approach being taken: reserved.)

[BisonMav]

The Sicatoka Posted on Jul 1 2003, 06:54 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One is taking the charge right in approach and will have a lot of issues to work out down the road (the primary being facilities).

One is taking a measured approach, cautious if you will. They are laying in infrastructure (facilities and revenue streams) that will benefit them no matter which road may rise up to meet them.

As easily as one approach could be spun as retentive and overly reserved the other could be spun as arrogant and pretentious.

I too believe that the NCAA moves will push UND toward DI. But when everyone is DI what good will that be? It's almost like things are reverting back to the pre-1973 model (two levels).

Watching someone else and using them as experience by proxy isn't a bad thing in my opinion. (As a matter of fact it follows directly with the rest of the approach being taken: reserved.)

[The Sicatoka]

They are definitely improving the facilities for their programs, and the improvements are, how shall we say it, "top level" caliber.

UND is putting themselves into a position where if they decide to move the pieces of the facilities puzzle are already firmly in place (and generating revenue) and this opens options.

Did I mention that Rob Bollinger and Jeff Bowen are now working nearly exclusively on efforts to endow all of UND's athletic scholarships? (That would mean no more annual big drive as the interest off the endowment money nest egg would fund the scholarships annually.) As a reference point, Northern Colorado completed a similar drive just before they announced their move to Division I. This again looks like a move that just opens up options.

[bisonguy]

One is taking the charge right in approach and will have a lot of issues to work out down the road (the primary being facilities).

One is taking a measured approach, cautious if you will. They are laying in infrastructure (facilities and revenue streams) that will benefit them no matter which road may rise up to meet them.

As easily as one approach could be spun as retentive and overly reserved the other could be spun as arrogant and pretentious.

I too believe that the NCAA moves will push UND toward DI. But when everyone is DI what good will that be? It's almost like things are reverting back to the pre-1973 model (two levels).

Watching someone else and using them as experience by proxy isn't a bad thing in my opinion. (As a matter of fact it follows directly with the rest of the approach being taken: reserved.)

Sicatoka,

What facility issues does NDSU need to work on? The BSA is the only one I know of, but a major renovation is planned. The Fargodome feature in The forum stated that a joint Basketball/Hockey expansion could still be in the works if a primary tenant (NDSU) wants it.

[jimdahl]

I look at it as UND improving facilities for the current programs.  Is there a Division I push going on behind the scenes?  Is UND really waiting to see how the NDSU move goes?  ...  I do not think they are waiting, but will make the move if and when and if they want to.

While there are people in the administration who want to see a move studied, I'm not sure any of us (certainly not me) meant to imply that UND has secretly decided to reclassify as D-IAA and is just waiting to see what happens. I'm just applying the filter of "how would this affect a division reclassification" to most of the sports news coming out of UND because I'm personally interested in UND reclassifying.

UND's improvements will give them among the best facilities and funding in D-II. Many D-II fans have observed that every couple years, the top schools remaining in D-II leave for D-IAA. While UND's improvements don't demand that UND reclassify, they certainly put UND in a better position for a future reclassification than if these improvements were not made. That's of keen interest to those of us hoping for reclassification.

[ScottM]

I agree Jim. If the facilities are improved now, and endowed funding is in place, it makes a move to DI at some point less of an economic burden on the school, and it lessens the political mess from those who are concerned about costs. As well, better facilities and full scholarships are nice recruiting tools too. I think it is inevitable that UND goes to DI, but I'm glad they're laying a nice foundation before they do. Unlike some places ...

[The Sicatoka]

Yes, the BSA is the primary concern (but, yes, there are plans for that). However, that doesn't solve the "total space available" issue, training spaces if you will. (Both Taylor and Thomas have expressed concerns in that area in the past.)

As of fall 2004, with REA-SC, the only UND Athletics tenants of Hyslop (main arena area) will be baseball, softball, and indoor track. I'm sure a no-cost extra 50000 square feet of training space for basketball and volleyball didn't hurt Roger Thomas' feelings at all because total facilities conjestion is going to drop.

Regarding "FargoArena": That 63% no vote is only two or three years back. It would be wise to let that dog nap for a while longer.

[UND Fan]

I found it very interesting who Bohl and Taylor were paired with at the recent Maris Charity Golf Tourney. I am sure it wasn't a fluke that they happened to be with someone who has a lot of $ in his pocket. He isn't an SU grad but may be swayed to do something big for SU sports. He doesn't have Englestad type of $ but he has a bunch of it!

I would guess that SU sports facilities were a topic of discussion during the round!

[bisonguy]

Sicatoka,

The "FargoArena" only needs a vote if taxpayer $$'s are used. The fact that the 1/2 percent FargoDome sales tax is no longer collected may help a vote now (or a couple years down the road). Here's a little about the status of the possible hockey/basketball arena:

Projects on hold

One project previously discussed for the future but now on the back-burner: a new hockey arena that would be built next to the Fargodome.

This idea is on hold because of North Dakota State University

[BisonMav]

DMB Posted on Jul 1 2003, 05:32 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found it very interesting who Bohl and Taylor were paired with at the recent Maris Charity Golf Tourney. 

Nausea hit when I saw the grouping. I would guess it was set up by a sly fox, the biggest brown noser in Fargo.

[The Sicatoka]

Current FargoDome revenues really aren't working in favor of a new arena right now. Like I said, they'd be wise to let that dog sleep for a few more days. Don't get me wrong, its day may come, but now is not the time. It's too fresh in too many minds.