Lennon's return to ND

[westsidebison]

Hey Sioux fans! I was just curious to know if any of you are planning on going to the NDSU/SIU game on 10-4. I just read on Bisonville that the game (which happens to also be homecoming) is already just about sold out. I'm wondering if this is due to a bunch of Sioux fans pre-ordering tickets to come cheer for Lennon or against us? Also is there any truth to the rumor of bitterness against Lennon for the way he handled his departure?? He seemed to be a first class guy, and flat out great coach and that would be sad!!

P.S. I don't intend for this to devolve into a Bison/Sioux smackfest!!!!

GOOD LUCK IN 2008!!!

[sultan]

I personally would rather go to Southern Illinois and watch the Sioux play Dale's team rather than go watch the Bison play Dale's team in Fargo. It is definitely worth the price of gas.

[iramurphy]

Hey Sioux fans! I was just curious to know if any of you are planning on going to the NDSU/SIU game on 10-4. I just read on Bisonville that the game (which happens to also be homecoming) is already just about sold out. I'm wondering if this is due to a bunch of Sioux fans pre-ordering tickets to come cheer for Lennon or against us? Also is there any truth to the rumor of bitterness against Lennon for the way he handled his departure?? He seemed to be a first class guy, and flat out great coach and that would be sad!!

P.S. I don't intend for this to devolve into a Bison/Sioux smackfest!!!!

GOOD LUCK IN 2008!!!

Therre is no bitterness towards Dale from anyone with an IQ above 60. Dale was a class guy and won a titile and was the runner-up once. No one else has done that. He didn't pursue SIU they pursued him. If you want to move up in the coaching world you go when you get the opportunity. The five year hiatus from the playoffs would have hurt his chances. This was a good move for him. When Bohl goes, you will say the same. They are both good coaches and if you can make >$1million in the business at the D1 level you have to go where the money is. If someone still thinks what UND and NDSU are doing is D1 FB, read Sports Illustrated this week. The college FB preview doesn't seem to include the Class B (BCS) teams.

[sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS]

My best case scenario - no smack intended:

1. Drive to Fargo to watch and cheer for Dale & SIU to win (already have my tickets).

2. Drive to Carbondale to watch UND beat Dale & SIU.

May be wishful thinking on my part, but that is what I would like to see.

[iramurphy]

Thank you for that. I get sick and tired of people trying to create the illusion that this I-AA division is bigger than it really is. For the record, BCS is actually the label given to the big-time teams. The fact that you got it wrong shows just how confusing it is, which is why I like to stick with the tried and true D1 and I-AA labels. I have yet to see anybody get those two mixed up.

On the other hand maybe it shows there is no botterness toward Dale from those of us with an IQ below 60 either. I know better, but have to admit I didnt' give the label much thought. Thanks for the correction.

[NDSUguy]

Thank you for that. I get sick and tired of people trying to create the illusion that this I-AA division is bigger than it really is. For the record, BCS is actually the label given to the big-time teams. The fact that you got it wrong shows just how confusing it is, which is why I like to stick with the tried and true D1 and I-AA labels. I have yet to see anybody get those two mixed up.

Just to set the record straight... BCS has nothing to do with D1A. The BCS is a group of conferences. Secondly there are 119 FBS (football bowl subdivision) schools in the country.

You can see how they are ranked here.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...ex.html?eref=T1

I would take ANY of the Top 25 FCS teams against the bottom 60 teams. You can call label the FCS however you want but in an age of college football parity, saying that the FBS is better really isn't true. It is true that the BCS conferences are better but the rest of D1A, is no different than FCS.

[Stromer]

Just to set the record straight... BCS has nothing to do with D1A. The BCS is a group of conferences. Secondly there are 119 FBS (football bowl subdivision) schools in the country.

You can see how they are ranked here.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...ex.html?eref=T1

I would take ANY of the Top 25 FCS teams against the bottom 60 teams. You can call label the FCS however you want but in an age of college football parity, saying that the FBS is better really isn't true. It is true that the BCS conferences are better but the rest of D1A, is no different than FCS.

I would agree with that. I am tired of people worrying that others are thinking that UND and NDSU going to FCS means they compete with Oklahoma, Texas, and the like for a title. If people are really that stupid and believe that, they really aren't fans. Nobody is trying to make the move seem any bigger than what it really is.

[Oxbow6]

Just to set the record straight... BCS has nothing to do with D1A. The BCS is a group of conferences. Secondly there are 119 FBS (football bowl subdivision) schools in the country.

You can see how they are ranked here.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/foot...ex.html?eref=T1

I would take ANY of the Top 25 FCS teams against the bottom 60 teams. You can call label the FCS however you want but in an age of college football parity, saying that the FBS is better really isn't true. It is true that the BCS conferences are better but the rest of D1A, is no different than FCS.

Really? So (hypothetically) if NDSU has all these teams, UCLA, Wahsington, Arkansas, Navy and Ole Miss, at HOME this year, they would win how many of these games? I say zero with the exception of possibly Washington? These are all teams in the bottom 60 of the FBS.

[The Walrus]

I would agree with that. I am tired of people worrying that others are thinking that UND and NDSU going to FCS means they compete with Oklahoma, Texas, and the like for a title. If people are really that stupid and believe that, they really aren't fans. Nobody is trying to make the move seem any bigger than what it really is.

This is TRUE for only football....

All other sports Basketball, Volleyball, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Field, basically whatever we (UND) decides to compete in, we will be recruiting, competing for wins, post season play and National Championships against those schools (Oklahoma, Texas ect..)

[Stromer]

This is TRUE for only football....

All other sports Basketball, Volleyball, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Field, basically whatever we (UND) decides to compete in, we will be recruiting, competing for wins, post season play and National Championships against those schools (Oklahoma, Texas ect..)

That is true. There is no subdivisions in these sports. What people need to recognize is we will be playing for conference titles, not national titles. UND likely will never win a national title in any of these sports. However, I would argue that a conference title means more than a D2 national champ. You may not face teams from all over the country in your conference, but the quality of play likely is better. Just making the postseason in each of the sports should be the goal of all teams except football and hockey. In those we expect or will be expecting national titles.

[The Walrus]

That is true. There is no subdivisions in these sports. What people need to recognize is we will be playing for conference titles, not national titles. UND likely will never win a national title in any of these sports. However, I would argue that a conference title means more than a D2 national champ. You may not face teams from all over the country in your conference, but the quality of play likely is better. Just making the postseason in each of the sports should be the goal of all teams except football and hockey. In those we expect or will be expecting national titles.

We just agree to disagree on this, I do not think Gene Roebuck would consider a Great West Basketball title (or whatever) on equal footings with a Division 2 National Title (Conference may10-12 Teams vs National D-2 Maybe 200+ teams)

As far as Football, again I would say that wining a 1-AA National Championship (again 100 schools) gives your school and program about the same amount of reconigition as a D-2 National Championship (over 200 Schools). To the average College football fan there is not alot of difference.

The one thing that 1-AA will give us is a Chance once or twice a year to play the "Big Boys" for a payday, and some possible reconigition, depending upon how we do....?

[GeauxSioux]

Not to beat the Crookston thing to death, but I can see a lot more fan interest in playing Montana or Montana State vs playing Crookston. A Great West title may not mean a whole lot to Gene Roebuck vs. a national championship, but the Great West is just one step in the move to DI. If the Sioux can one step at a time transition from playing Crookston, Jamestown, etc to Montana State, Vermont, Arkansas I think the coaches would love it and I know the fans would.

Additionally, one day those conference championships (not the Great West) will equate to post season play.

[NDSUguy]

Really? So (hypothetically) if NDSU has all these teams, UCLA, Wahsington, Arkansas, Navy and Ole Miss, at HOME this year, they would win how many of these games? I say zero with the exception of possibly Washington? These are all teams in the bottom 60 of the FBS.

I'm not going to say that NDSU would or would not beat any of these teams. I will however say that I don't believe that the quality of football in the ranks of 60-119 in D1A is that much different than that of the quality FCS teams. Just like FBS, there not all FCS teams are created equal. If you want to make the arguement that FBS as a whole is better than FCS, I won't disagree with you. However, to downplay FCS as something similar to D2 is really a stupid statement. This is evident by the number of FCS victories (NDSU has 3) over marginal FBS teams over the past 5 years. You don't have to be a great college football mind to figure that out.

[SiouxMD]

Hey Sioux fans! I was just curious to know if any of you are planning on going to the NDSU/SIU game on 10-4. I just read on Bisonville that the game (which happens to also be homecoming) is already just about sold out. I'm wondering if this is due to a bunch of Sioux fans pre-ordering tickets to come cheer for Lennon or against us? Also is there any truth to the rumor of bitterness against Lennon for the way he handled his departure?? He seemed to be a first class guy, and flat out great coach and that would be sad!!

P.S. I don't intend for this to devolve into a Bison/Sioux smackfest!!!!

GOOD LUCK IN 2008!!!

Boy...I'd love to go and watch Lennon beat NDSU again but UND plays OPEN that weekend.

GO SIOUX

[Oxbow6]

I'm not going to say that NDSU would or would not beat any of these teams. I will however say that I don't believe that the quality of football in the ranks of 60-119 in D1A is that much different than that of the quality FCS teams. Just like FBS, there not all FCS teams are created equal. If you want to make the arguement that FBS as a whole is better than FCS, I won't disagree with you. However, to downplay FCS as something similar to D2 is really a stupid statement. This is evident by the number of FCS victories (NDSU has 3) over marginal FBS teams over the past 5 years. You don't have to be a great college football mind to figure that out.

I guess "marginal" is the key term. The teams I stated are in that bottom 60, but you are dealing with decent SEC & PAC-10 teams. They are marginal for their conference but the type of athlete that UCLA and Ole Miss put out is highly superior to what NDSU puts out. I think the W vs. the Gophs last year was great for NDSU as was the win over Central Michigan, but I do think you are giving the FCS a little too much credit even though I do see your point.

[Stromer]

We just agree to disagree on this, I do not think Gene Roebuck would consider a Great West Basketball title (or whatever) on equal footings with a Division 2 National Title (Conference may10-12 Teams vs National D-2 Maybe 200+ teams)

As far as Football, again I would say that wining a 1-AA National Championship (again 100 schools) gives your school and program about the same amount of reconigition as a D-2 National Championship (over 200 Schools). To the average College football fan there is not alot of difference.

The one thing that 1-AA will give us is a Chance once or twice a year to play the "Big Boys" for a payday, and some possible reconigition, depending upon how we do....?

I just wanted to point out that I was talking down the road when we are in an established basketball conference. One that is known for decent bball teams and an auto-bid in the tourney. The Great West is a patchwork designed to hold us over until we get into a real conference. I can see your point with the number of teams in D2 but when Winona State is the champion, I don't know how impressive that title is. Exciting for the players, no doubt, but fan interest just isn't at the level that it should be for winning a title. But thats just my opinion.

[NDSUguy]

I just wanted to point out that I was talking down the road when we are in an established basketball conference. One that is known for decent bball teams and an auto-bid in the tourney. The Great West is a patchwork designed to hold us over until we get into a real conference. I can see your point with the number of teams in D2 but when Winona State is the champion, I don't know how impressive that title is. Exciting for the players, no doubt, but fan interest just isn't at the level that it should be for winning a title. But thats just my opinion.

winning a d2 national championship in basketball pales in comparison to making it to the ncaa tournament.

[The Walrus]

I just wanted to point out that I was talking down the road when we are in an established basketball conference. One that is known for decent bball teams and an auto-bid in the tourney. The Great West is a patchwork designed to hold us over until we get into a real conference. I can see your point with the number of teams in D2 but when Winona State is the champion, I don't know how impressive that title is. Exciting for the players, no doubt, but fan interest just isn't at the level that it should be for winning a title. But thats just my opinion.

I agree with almost all of your post, I just hope that the Fan Interest is there....? I have been to more D-1 Basketball in the last 2-3 years because of friends and some of those Games UNI vs Creighton last year drew less fans then UND vs South Dakota back in the early 90's at UND....

Now Football.....

I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I know you need to WIN for Fan Support. That will be the toughest because we can not get anyone to play us when we do win.....Case in point do you think UNI will ever Travel to Grand Forks in the next 5-10 years unless they have too....? No Way, we beat them at there place they are not coming here until we have a conference affilation with them. So we will play pasties at home and Exciting Fun to watch Games on the Road...

[GeauxSioux]

I agree with almost all of your post, I just hope that the Fan Interest is there....? I have been to more D-1 Basketball in the last 2-3 years because of friends and some of those Games UNI vs Creighton last year drew less fans then UND vs South Dakota back in the early 90's at UND....

Now Football.....

I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I know you need to WIN for Fan Support. That will be the toughest because we can not get anyone to play us when we do win.....Case in point do you think UNI will ever Travel to Grand Forks in the next 5-10 years unless they have too....? No Way, we beat them at there place they are not coming here until we have a conference affilation with them. So we will play pasties at home and Exciting Fun to watch Games on the Road...

I believe that UNI is to come to GF as part of the agreement with UND going to UNI. I don't know what year that is to happen. I know you meant to be more encompassing than just UNI, but that is all I have to offer.

[mksioux]

We just agree to disagree on this, I do not think Gene Roebuck would consider a Great West Basketball title (or whatever) on equal footings with a Division 2 National Title (Conference may10-12 Teams vs National D-2 Maybe 200+ teams)

Think long term. The Great West Conference is an important first step in the transition, but it's not UND's ultimate goal. The long-term goal is to gradually establish regular competition with its peers, get into an established conference with an automatic bid, and regularly compete for conference titles. In my opinion, to get UND to that point would be much more meaningful than to stay in DII and compete for national championships.

[mksioux]

Now Football.....

I do not pretend to have all the answers, but I know you need to WIN for Fan Support. That will be the toughest because we can not get anyone to play us when we do win.....Case in point do you think UNI will ever Travel to Grand Forks in the next 5-10 years unless they have too....? No Way, we beat them at there place they are not coming here until we have a conference affilation with them. So we will play pasties at home and Exciting Fun to watch Games on the Road...

While they are not UNI, I believe Idaho State is making the return trip to Grand Forks in 09. A rematch of the original Potato Bowl for the 2009 Potato Bowl will certainly bring excitement. Throw in UC-Davis and South Dakota and you have three great home games already scheduled for 09. Until UND can get into an established football conference, scheduling will always be an issue, but there will be some exciting home games.

[westsidebison]

Therre is no bitterness towards Dale from anyone with an IQ above 60. Dale was a class guy and won a titile and was the runner-up once. No one else has done that. He didn't pursue SIU they pursued him. If you want to move up in the coaching world you go when you get the opportunity. The five year hiatus from the playoffs would have hurt his chances. This was a good move for him. When Bohl goes, you will say the same. They are both good coaches and if you can make >$1million in the business at the D1 level you have to go where the money is. If someone still thinks what UND and NDSU are doing is D1 FB, read Sports Illustrated this week. The college FB preview doesn't seem to include the Class B (BCS) teams.

You're absolutely correct. I'm not exactly sure where I had heard that but I could hardly believe it after how successful he was at UND. The coaching carousel is gonna be more of a problem at this level, but atleast it's a product of success. I would be very suprised if Bohl is still at NDSU at the end of his seven year contract. Life will go on.

[Herd]

Thank you for that. I get sick and tired of people trying to create the illusion that this I-AA division is bigger than it really is. For the record, BCS is actually the label given to the big-time teams. The fact that you got it wrong shows just how confusing it is, which is why I like to stick with the tried and true D1 and I-AA labels. I have yet to see anybody get those two mixed up.

There are 11 DI FBS football conferences that play for the DI FBS championship called the "BCS Championship". There are 6 FBS conferences that have auto-bids to BCS Bowls. BCS is a Championship, not a conference. The conferences are FBS, but the top 6 have elite status with their BCS auto-bids.

Using the incorrect nomenclature (IA/IAA) to incorrectly label schools big and small is so technically wrong and misleading that I don't know where to start. To assume that DI is all about football is crazy talk. Thankfully the ncaa is wiser than U.

[SiouxMeNow]

There are 11 DI FBS football conferences that play for the DI FBS championship called the "BCS Championship". There are 6 FBS conferences that have auto-bids to BCS Bowls. BCS is a Championship, not a conference. The conferences are FBS, but the top 6 have elite status with their BCS auto-bids.

Using the incorrect nomenclature (IA/IAA) to incorrectly label schools big and small is so technically wrong and misleading that I don't know where to start. To assume that DI is all about football is crazy talk. Thankfully the ncaa is wiser than U.

WHAT are you talking about? Congrats on using a big word like "nomenclature" though! It really added a lot of credibility to your non-sensical post...and YES I-A and I-AA is actually CORRECT nomenclature - but you guys can stand thinking you're in a lesser division of DI-Football - just STOP IT!

[Bison06]

GREAT POST!!! I would especially like to thank you for pointing out the naueseatingly annoying use of the word "nomenclature". I swear that's the one word used more often than any other on AGS, and I have yet to ever see that word used anywhere else in my entire lifetime... but I digress.

We can split hairs for the rest of our lives, but what it all boils down to is this...

If you're in Division I football your goal is to play in a bowl game. If you're in Division I-AA football your goal is to make the playoffs. That's the way it is and all the "yeah but there are no subdivisions in sports other than football" comments are never ever going to change that. I'm not referring to other sports, I'm referring to football.

Some people who follow I-AA teams like to play the "D1 in all other sports" card to create the illusion that their team is competing at the highest level of NCAA football when that just isn't the case. It's the 2nd highest level of NCAA football, get over it. It's great and I'm looking forward to it, but let's not blow it out of proportion by calling it D1 and intentionally leaving out the AA.

I realize we have been through this numerous times, but here we go again. I will use an example to make my point. If the University of Southern Illinois and the University of Illinois were recruiting the same player to come to their school and play BASKETBALL, what was happening before they made the change from I and I-AA to FBS and FCS was the University of Illinois coaches would sit down in this player's home and lie to them. They would say why would you go to The University of Southern Illinois when they are a I-AA school. Which we all know is only correct when referring to the football team. The kid, most likely 16-18 years old and uninformed, believes these coaches and opts to go to the University of Illinois based only on the fact that they were told that the University of Southern Illinois was inferior in some way. To guard against this behavior, the NCAA enacted the new naming system. It's purpose was to add the word football into the new name so recruits would know that the names only applied to football. Football Championship Subdivision and Football Bowl subdivision. So you see, the purpose of this new naming system is not some sort of inferiority complex that the smaller division I schools have. They were being screwed out of recruits by the big schools lying to teenagers. You can see how this would affect a school like NDSU, UND, UNI, SIU when trying to recruit athletes in other sports. UND has a strong hockey program. What if the University of Minnesota began telling unsuspecting recruits that you guys were somehow inferior to them and was winning recruiting battles solely on that. You would be pissed. This is what happened, and this is why they changed the names. SIU is just as strong if not stronger in basketball than some of the teams that would win recruiting battles over them, because teenagers were being lied to. Some might say "well the kids should be smarter than that and do research on the school on their own". I agree with that, but big schools shouldn't have a HUGE advantage over smaller schools because teenagers are too lazy to do research on which college to go to.

For those of you who understood this before my rant, I apologize. Dave just seems to make it about an inferiority complex that FCS schools have and it just plain isn't true.