darell1976 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I would rather play an FBS on the road and take the chance of getting beat than play a DII (non counter) and win. At least with an FBS we get a paycheck. In the eyes of a playoff selection committee the DII game never happened. Our goal every year is to make the playoffs and how our schedule is set up now we are asking our team to win 7 out of 10 games in a new conference vs. schools much more established with their depth. Not easy for any team. All we have to do is win all our home games plus 2 road games and we are golden!!! Of course it sounds a lot easier than it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Problem is that the game is in Week 1. SD Mines would have no problem finding a D-II or NAIA school to play in the first two weeks of the season because that is when everyone is looking for non-conference games. They probably chose to play UND because they got a bigger guarantee than if they were to play a lower division school. I very much doubt that that they would still have a week one opening in March, however. If the schedule opening was in October or November... completely different story. Yes, I probably should have addressed that in my post. Chances are that date would have been filled by SD Mines, but on the other hand, whether it's SD Mines or some other low-level NAIA or dII school, you'd think UND could buy out an existing contract and bring in this kind of opponent on relatively short notice if all else fell through. If Mines were playing Mayville State in week one, for example, how much would it cost to buy out that contract? Probably not much. Ultimately, my criticism is that it seems like this game was scheduled too far in advance, as it was announced in March of 2011. In the scheme of things for dI scheduling, maybe that's not really that far in advance...until you consider how quickly Portland State was found after Central Arkansas dropped us. It sounds like that whole thing occurred in a matter of weeks. It would just be interesting to know whether the SD Mines game was just a contingency plan, or whether it was always contemplated that a non-dI was going to be on the schedule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Yes, I probably should have addressed that in my post. Chances are that date would have been filled by SD Mines, but on the other hand, whether it's SD Mines or some other low-level NAIA or dII school, you'd think UND could buy out an existing contract and bring in this kind of opponent on relatively short notice if all else fell through. If Mines were playing Mayville State in week one, for example, how much would it cost to buy out that contract? Probably not much. Ultimately, my criticism is that it seems like this game was scheduled too far in advance, as it was announced in March of 2011. In the scheme of things for dI scheduling, maybe that's not really that far in advance...until you consider how quickly Portland State was found after Central Arkansas dropped us. It sounds like that whole thing occurred in a matter of weeks. It would just be interesting to know whether the SD Mines game was just a contingency plan, or whether it was always contemplated that a non-dI was going to be on the schedule. That is the problem with our athletic department. We are eligible for the playoffs from 2012 and on. There is no reason that there should ever be a non D1 team on our football schedule from now on. Other schools can schedule 4 D1 OAC games every year. Why should UND be any different. While the Mines game is unfortunate to have on our schedule, there is no reason to be playing any D2 or NAIA school from here on out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 That is the problem with our athletic department. We are eligible for the playoffs from 2012 and on. There is no reason that there should ever be a non D1 team on our football schedule from now on. Other schools can schedule 4 D1 OAC games every year. Why should UND be any different. While the Mines game is unfortunate to have on our schedule, there is no reason to be playing any D2 or NAIA school from here on out. I think we've been through this before, but many prominent FCS schools schedule D2 or lower opponents. Georgia Southern, Montana and Montana State are all still standing in the playoffs after scheduling a D2 game this year. Eastern Washington and Delaware played for the championship last year and both scheduled D2 teams. I think this is a case of people viewing this practice as unacceptable because of what the program 75 miles to the south is doing with its scheduling. The Portland State game became possible because of the $150K UND received from the Central Arkansas buyout. In affect it became UCA writing a check to PSU to come to GF in their place. If it costs $100K plus to bring in another FCS team to replace SD Mines on the schedule, it doesn't work out very well when only 8-9K are going to show up regardless of who the opponent is. Now that the transition is over, the UND fans need to step up and start buying season tickets and putting a consistent 11-12K in the Alerus Center each Saturday so that the administration has the confidence to go start buying more home games. UND averaged over 10,800 in the first year of the transition so I know it's possible. When you really think about it, it's pretty lame that a flagship state university with over 14K students has to be this concerned with keeping football attendance above 10K. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think we've been through this before, but many prominent FCS schools schedule D2 or lower opponents. Georgia Southern, Montana and Montana State are all still standing in the playoffs after scheduling a D2 game this year. Eastern Washington and Delaware played for the championship last year and both scheduled D2 teams. I think this is a case of people viewing this practice as unacceptable because of what the program 75 miles to the south is doing with its scheduling. The Portland State game became possible because of the $150K UND received from the Central Arkansas buyout. In affect it became UCA writing a check to PSU to come to GF in their place. Great post. It makes sense now when you say it. If it costs $100K plus to bring in another FCS team to replace SD Mines on the schedule, it doesn't work out very well when only 8-9K are going to show up regardless of who the opponent is. Now that the transition is over, the UND fans need to step up and start buying season tickets and putting a consistent 11-12K in the Alerus Center each Saturday so that the administration has the confidence to go start buying more home games. UND averaged over 10,800 in the first year of the transition so I know it's possible. When you really think about it, it's pretty lame that a flagship state university with over 14K students has to be this concerned with keeping football attendance above 10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think we've been through this before, but many prominent FCS schools schedule D2 or lower opponents. Georgia Southern, Montana and Montana State are all still standing in the playoffs after scheduling a D2 game this year. Eastern Washington and Delaware played for the championship last year and both scheduled D2 teams. I think this is a case of people viewing this practice as unacceptable because of what the program 75 miles to the south is doing with its scheduling. The Portland State game became possible because of the $150K UND received from the Central Arkansas buyout. In affect it became UCA writing a check to PSU to come to GF in their place. Great post Makes sense to me. If it costs $100K plus to bring in another FCS team to replace SD Mines on the schedule, it doesn't work out very well when only 8-9K are going to show up regardless of who the opponent is. Now that the transition is over, the UND fans need to step up and start buying season tickets and putting a consistent 11-12K in the Alerus Center each Saturday so that the administration has the confidence to go start buying more home games. UND averaged over 10,800 in the first year of the transition so I know it's possible. When you really think about it, it's pretty lame that a flagship state university with over 14K students has to be this concerned with keeping football attendance above 10K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risky Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Great post. Makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Lets just say I won't be at the Mines game...I am saving my money for the PSU game. A game that COUNTS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Lets just say I won't be at the Mines game...I am saving my money for the PSU game. A game that COUNTS!!! And an attitude like that is why there will continue to be non-DI games on the schedule going forward.......................... Attendance of 7,000-8,000 will not often afford North Dakota the luxury of being in a financial position to pay the dollars required to bring in a Pioneer or NEC or similar FCS team for early season non-conference games..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself Bin? You have always stated UND fans show up to the home games no matter "who the opponent is". Well if people and Darrell start saying well look at us now!!!! UND might just see that bigger opponents draw bigger crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 For what it's worth, SDSU hasn't scheduled a non-dI since 2006. I like the model they've been using--one FBS, and generally two home-and-home's with quality FCS opponents. It would seem the other possibility is to use part of the guarantee derived from the FBS game to bring in a Pioneer League team, instead of scheduling the second home-and-home. Of course, the problem since the dI move is that home-and-home's that actually work out have been few and far between, for a variety of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 And an attitude like that is why there will continue to be non-DI games on the schedule going forward.......................... Attendance of 7,000-8,000 will not often afford North Dakota the luxury of being in a financial position to pay the dollars required to bring in a Pioneer or NEC or similar FCS team for early season non-conference games..................... I am not going to drive an hour to GF...pay 5 bucks for parking and roughly 10 bucks at the food stand on top of the 15 dollar ticket to watch UND play a DII team...I did enough of that prior to 2008 and a few games during transition. If I am at the Alerus I am there to see UND play a team that helps us get to the playoffs. Watching SD Mines is like paying full price to see a NFL Exhibition game. Nobody cares!!! I will listen on the radio but will not attend ANY DII/NAIA games. If I want non-DI games I will go across the river and watch Moorhead State or Concordia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 For what it's worth, SDSU hasn't scheduled a non-dI since 2006. I like the model they've been using--one FBS, and generally two home-and-home's with quality FCS opponents. It would seem the other possibility is to use part of the guarantee derived from the FBS game to bring in a Pioneer League team, instead of scheduling the second home-and-home. Of course, the problem since the dI move is that home-and-home's that actually work out have been few and far between, for a variety of reasons. I don't like what SDSU is doing because it's too hard to build any momentum to start the season. If you schedule an FBS team plus two non-con games (one home and one away) against quality FCS teams, you are likely going to start the season 1-2 most years and be up against it going into conference play. You are also relegating yourself to just five home games every year, which makes it even more difficult to qualify for the postseason. Plus, scheduling all these home and homes with FCS schools is a bad idea unless you can get teams to come to your place first. Otherwise, you're just facing problems with buyouts like every one of the Dakota FCS schools have experienced over the past few years. NDSU definitely has the scheduling down: Buy two FCS non-conference wins and then schedule a winnable FBS game against a school in the region (ISU, UM, KU, Wyoming, etc.). Good for recruiting and fans to travel and perfect for making the playoffs. You don't see them scheduling Wisconsin or Nebraska like the SD schools are doing because they know the chances of getting smacked are pretty good and then the illusion of being big time is ruined. In both 2013 and 2014, UND has already "bought" wins against Valpo and Robert Morris, so clearly Faison understands what needs to be done to put the program in the best spot to reach the playoffs every year. SDSU is returning in 2013 which is a good game, but what happens after that is probably up to the UND fan base. If UND can double its season ticket sales and get to the point where 11-12K each week is a virtual guarantee, then I think you'll see UND go to buying a second guarantee game like our friends in Fargo. If attendance continues to lag, then you're going to see home and homes with FCS opponents and/or a D2 opponent on the schedule every year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I am not going to drive an hour to GF...pay 5 bucks for parking and roughly 10 bucks at the food stand on top of the 15 dollar ticket to watch UND play a DII team...I did enough of that prior to 2008 and a few games during transition. If I am at the Alerus I am there to see UND play a team that helps us get to the playoffs. Watching SD Mines is like paying full price to see a NFL Exhibition game. Nobody cares!!! I will listen on the radio but will not attend ANY DII/NAIA games. If I want non-DI games I will go across the river and watch Moorhead State or Concordia. If people can afford it, some fans love Sioux football (and hockey) so much they will go to any of the games no matter the opponent. I still will go watch the hockey team play exhibition games against Regina and the Russian Red Starts even though those games are way more expensive than football games and not to mention you only got so few home football games....not so much with hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 If people can afford it, some fans love Sioux football (and hockey) so much they will go to any of the games no matter the opponent. I still will go watch the hockey team play exhibition games against Regina and the Russian Red Starts even though those games are way more expensive than football games and not to mention you only got so few home football games....not so much with hockey. I just think its a slap in the face to fans who have waited since 2007 for a chance to play for a national title and your first game is against...a flippin DII team?? If it was a 12 game schedule fine but when 7 DI wins (which UND has never achieved in a season) is what we need for the playoffs SD Mines is not going to get the crowd or the Sioux players excited. What if our best player goes down with an injury and is gone for the year. It would be understandable if it was against a DI team but DII?? All Mines is, is an exhibition game. 6-7K at best for attendance. For PSU you can expect 10-11K for 2 reasons: 1. DI team, and 2. Potato Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself Bin? You have always stated UND fans show up to the home games no matter "who the opponent is". Well if people and Darrell start saying well look at us now!!!! UND might just see that bigger opponents draw bigger crowds. I've said that fans DON'T seem to show up no matter who the opponent is. My guess is the SD Mines game will probably be the first or second best attended game on next season's schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I just think its a slap in the face to fans who have waited since 2007 for a chance to play for a national title and your first game is against...a flippin DII team?? First it was money. Now its your feelings of being unappreciated. What makes you think you or UND are so much better than a lot of FCS schools. Montana fans have been getting slapped in the face for years. Including this year when they played DII Western Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I've said that fans DON'T seem to show up no matter who the opponent is. My guess is the SD Mines game will probably be the first or second best attended game on next season's schedule. Which is in large part due to it being the first home game. Can you imagine if Montana was the first home game, or SDSU, or USD. We might actually get 10-11,000 to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I don't like what SDSU is doing because it's too hard to build any momentum to start the season. If you schedule an FBS team plus two non-con games (one home and one away) against quality FCS teams, you are likely going to start the season 1-2 most years and be up against it going into conference play. You are also relegating yourself to just five home games every year, which makes it even more difficult to qualify for the postseason. Plus, scheduling all these home and homes with FCS schools is a bad idea unless you can get teams to come to your place first. Otherwise, you're just facing problems with buyouts like every one of the Dakota FCS schools have experienced over the past few years. NDSU definitely has the scheduling down: Buy two FCS non-conference wins and then schedule a winnable FBS game against a school in the region (ISU, UM, KU, Wyoming, etc.). Good for recruiting and fans to travel and perfect for making the playoffs. You don't see them scheduling Wisconsin or Nebraska like the SD schools are doing because they know the chances of getting smacked are pretty good and then the illusion of being big time is ruined. In both 2013 and 2014, UND has already "bought" wins against Valpo and Robert Morris, so clearly Faison understands what needs to be done to put the program in the best spot to reach the playoffs every year. SDSU is returning in 2013 which is a good game, but what happens after that is probably up to the UND fan base. If UND can double its season ticket sales and get to the point where 11-12K each week is a virtual guarantee, then I think you'll see UND go to buying a second guarantee game like our friends in Fargo. If attendance continues to lag, then you're going to see home and homes with FCS opponents and/or a D2 opponent on the schedule every year. There are valid arguments on both sides of the "to schedule or not to schedule a dII/NAIA" question. In the end, it only really makes any practical difference if UND finishes 7-4 and does not get into the playoffs due to a non-dI win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Which is in large part due to it being the first home game. Can you imagine if Montana was the first home game, or SDSU, or USD. We might actually get 10-11,000 to show up. We opened the home season with USD in 2009 and it sold out. Coming off a 8-3 season and a conference championship, I believe the SD Mines game will approach 11,000. If we have a good season, the Montana game has the chance to sell out.................or if it is on the same day as a hockey game it might not draw 9,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 First it was money. Now its your feelings of being unappreciated. What makes you think you or UND are so much better than a lot of FCS schools. Montana fans have been getting slapped in the face for years. Including this year when they played DII Western Oregon. Then you have the argument NDSU hasn't had a Non DI opponent since 2006. Why can't we do that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Then you have the argument NDSU hasn't had a Non DI opponent since 2006. Why can't we do that?? Easy answer - $ As was stated earlier, having a few thousand fans in the stands (even for very good competition) does not provide the revenue needed to do what SU can do when they average 16-17,000+ over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Easy answer - $ As was stated earlier, having a few thousand fans in the stands (even for very good competition) does not provide the revenue needed to do what SU can do when they average 16-17,000+ over the last few years. You don't create any $$$ with non DI teams. At least now we have more to play for than just a conference title and that alone should get fans in the seats but when they see a Non DI team as their opponent that excitement is gone for that week. NDSU can draw 16-17k because football is #1 in Fargo just like hockey is #1 in Grand Forks but at least schedule the teams necessary to make the playoffs and the crowds will show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole in MSP Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I've said that fans DON'T seem to show up no matter who the opponent is. My guess is the SD Mines game will probably be the first or second best attended game on next season's schedule. You surely cannot be serious! SD Mines won one game this year. They lost to Sioux Falls 71-7, a team UND beat solidly while playing poorly. They lost to Missouri Mines 60-6, a team that USD hammered. This game should not happen. It will be another Crookston debacle and anyone with any sense will find something else to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 You don't create any $$$ with non DI teams. At least now we have more to play for than just a conference title and that alone should get fans in the seats but when they see a Non DI team as their opponent that excitement is gone for that week. NDSU can draw 16-17k because football is #1 in Fargo just like hockey is #1 in Grand Forks but at least schedule the teams necessary to make the playoffs and the crowds will show up. No. 1: I, like everyone else, wishes that SDM was not on the schedule. This opponent serves no purpose other than to give this still-young team some action before getting into a very difficult schedule. No. 2: Your quote "Why can't we do that?" was in comparson to SU. You address part of answer above - football is No. 1 down there. They sell a ton of season tickets and their dome is normallly very near, if not, full. Averaging twice as many in attendance results in a huge difference in revenue. No. 3: I also hope your statement that "crowds will show up" with better opponents is true but it may take awhile (and some success) before that happens. We had less than 10,000 for Cal Poly at Homecoming and an embarrassing 7,400 for a game with our only current rival for a conference championship. No. 4: There have been no excess funds laying around to "invest" in a better schedule - especially when we are still trying to get our arms around all the additional scholarship, recruiting and travel costs of moving to DI. No. 5: It is very easy for us (including me) to second-guess many things within UND's athletic department but we are naive if we think Faison and others wouldn't like a better schedule, that the men's BB team hasn't tried to recruit more size, that the FB coaching staff didn't wish they had more talent at QB, etc. Just because we want something to happen doesn't mean it will. No. 6: I realize that am being a bit hypocritical because, if you look back at many of my posts, they have often been critical of various things within the athletic department (mostly coaching). But most of our concerns ultimately revolve around money (even our recruiting successes - or lack of). If our pockets were deeper, I think we would all see some things happening quite differently. No. 7. End of rant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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