zonadub
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Posts posted by zonadub
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I guess you could say softball might be funded at a different level but I don't see a real funding difference by NDSU to rationalize a completely different approach for meeting Title IX.
Here are the number for all womens sports shared by the Dakota schools.
Total NDSU 3,869,847 SDSU 2,980,155 UND 3,452,455 USD 3,197,921
Basketball NDSU 1,060,291 SDSU 962,049 UND 1,088,751 USD 926,778
Golf NDSU 212,801 SDSU 185,196 UND 164,263 USD 171,786
Soccer NDSU 566,590 SDSU 489,120 UND 500,194 USD 399,835
Volleyball NDSU 676,828 SDSU 407,265 UND 646,287 USD 542,269
Softball NDSU 677,989 SDSU 455,473 UND 468,635 USD 429,907
All Track Combined NDSU 675,348 SDSU 481,052 UND 584,325 USD 727,346
So, where does the increased cost of travel due to being Big Sky conference members show up?
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I admit to being totally uninformed on this subject and have questions...
Big Sky schools are planning to offer 18 Full Cost of Attendance stipends to each gender men and women?
UND will offer the same - 18 stipends?
If UND allocates all these stipends on the men's side to hockey, it seems that UND will be behind not only the other Dakota schools, but also the Big Sky schools in the other men's sports -football and mbb, who will be able to offer the stipends to athletes in the other sports that UND will be ignoring with these stipends?
Am I missing something here?
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OK, here's another perspective...
Sine there has been NO NICKNAME there have been NO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. Maybe change is needed.
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Let's put all the legal arguments behind. My question for you "no nickname" people is why do you want UND to have no nickname? Is it because you don't want UND to be known by anything other than the Fighting Sioux? Is it because no other name will even come close to being as good as Fighting Sioux? Is it because with no nickname, UND will still be unofficially the Fighting Sioux and you can yell "Go Sioux" at a game and it doensn't contradict with any other name? Is it because you want to wear your Fighting Sioux Jersey/hat/jacket/etc around town and to games still? That is what I want the "no namer" to please explain to me.
Another question for the no nickname proponents... how do current, and especially prospective, student athletes feel about this? Other than preferring to stay Fighting Sioux, do current student athletes prefer to not have a nickname? Do prospective recruits prefer no nickname?
Or is it old fans who are afraid of/resistant to change?
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Yes. A contract. Which means that if one party fails to live up to its end, the other party has a legal remedy. The aggrieved party cannot unilaterally impose arbitrary punishment upon the party in breach. This includes declaring that the party is in violation of a rule that is not actually being violated and trying to impose a sanction that would do more harm than good. That would be anarchy, and would turn the rule of law on its head. No, the remedy for breach of contract is a lawsuit. In order to prevail on said lawsuit, the plaintiff must establish (1) the existence of a contract, (2) a breach, and (3) resulting harm. I will go so far as to concede (1) and (2) for the sake of discussion. Which leaves (3).
I submit to you that the NCAA is not harmed by UND not having a nickname. In fact, the NCAA has no rule requiring nicknames of any of its members. There is no economic loss to the NCAA. Keep in mind that the NCAA got what it wanted…UND dropped its hostile and abusive nickname and the NCAA has one more member walking in step with its Native American nickname policy. What more could it possibly ask?
Let's assume for the moment that the NCAA really was steamed about this. Ignore the fact that the NCAA is already engaged in a fight on countless fronts for its own survival, over such trivial things as:
1. Amateurism and compensation
2. Unionization
3. Player likenesses in video games
4. Player likenesses in broadcasts and DVDs
5. Long-term health effects and medical coverage
6. Having its HQ in the bigoted state of Indiana
Let's also assume that the NCAA is willing to spend the time, money and effort necessary to sue UND for breach of contract. It somehow articulates a theory of 'harm' caused by UND's non-adoption of a nickname, and the judge buys it. The judge will be asked to do two things: award damages (i.e., money), and/or order specific performance (i.e., compel UND to follow through on its contractual promise to adopt a new nickname). As a baseline proposition, courts generally prefer not to compel action, especially when such action is not necessary to avoid a greater loss to someone's life, limb, or property. It's messy, and it's hardly the job of the judiciary to tell folks how to conduct their business. That's why lawsuits usually result in an award of money damages.
Now, money damages must bear some relation to the actual harm suffered by the plaintiff. Courts are known to award nominal damages in a case that lacks any real economic harm. Where and how is the NCAA harmed here? I just don't see it. The NCAA won. It's nickname policy was vindicated. "Butt-hurt" and injured pride are not compensable.
You ask, "What part of [the contract] do people not understand?" I am telling you that this has less to do with the contract and far more to do with the realities - both economic and legal - in which the parties to the contract find themselves. This is not unusual. Very few legal "wrongs" are ever righted. Costs versus benefits. Risks versus rewards. Battles are picked.
There are reasons to pick a new name, and not to pick a new name. My point all along has been that fear of the NCAA should not be a driver.
So, by your scenario, why drop Fighting Sioux in the first place? How can the NCAA prove harm if the Sioux name is retained?
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Don't be bullied by the anti- no-nickname folks. No nickname would win in a landslide if it is allowed to be voted on. I think the right minds could market the hell out of being a state flagship university that doesn't have a nickname. We are North Dakota! Sounds a lot better than "here comes the University of North Dakota Aviators" or some other lame ass nickname! It's also a reminder that the PC police took our nickname if we choose to go without one. We can play by their silly rules, but it doesn't mean we don't have the right to be bitter about it.
So, not picking a new nickname, staying just "North Dakota" is a way of giving the NCAA the finger? Taking your ball and going home?
Student athletes like to have an identity, whether it's Sioux, Bison, Gophers, whatever. Part of what was so great about the Sioux name was that it inspired all of us with a unique and powerful identity that will likely not be regained.
My guess, and it is only a guess, is that no nickname is not really the preference of most of the people, just most of the more vocal people on this board. My other guess, and again only a guess, is that people are more concerned that the new nickname will not inspire and rally people - athletes, fans, etc.
The committee is in a tough position, no matter what they choose, the majority will not like it, because there will not be a clear majority in favor of any name other than Sioux. Best of luck to them.
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Retractable windows on the north and south sides to get a breeze and save on HVAC.
And open them when UND has a long kick going with that 'breeze'.
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I haven't commented much on this topic, but I submitted my idea today as well as many others will. I have enjoyed all of the ideas I've seen on this board, but mine was different than any on here. I suggested Green Machine. My rationale was that it ties in our engineering program with the history of railroads in ND. Could be a cool Soo Liner logo associated with the name as well, similar to the Purdue Boilermakers, which would integrate the memory of the old nickname a little bit as well. May be dumb to some people, but I thought I would share.
Reminds me of the Burt Reynolds movie "The Longest Yard" back in the '70s ... Mean Machine. ?
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Even though I submitted Roughriders and Nokotas, I am surprised that Cavalry and Wolves got no traction, and that Pony Express got no support when suggested several months ago.
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Only one with any real brand presence is the team in the CFL and they are in Canada. Also, their most recognizable player is none other than Weston Dressler and even Greg Hardin also nows plays for them. I bet UND could do some cool things with Weston and the Roughrider name. No one knows about some USHL team or minor league baseball teams. Therefore to me, Roughriders is unique. I don't get the Rid River argument, and I sure as heck don't care if some USHL team or Minor League Baseball team uses it. That is just as insignifcant as the Red River HS argument.
Also take a look at the list of college nicknames and see how many Bison there are. When I hear Bison I think NDSU and there are like 6 other schools that use that name. Your brand is only as strong as you make it and UNDs will be greater than any HS or Minor league organizations.
I like your Nokota name and logo potential, but I agree with what someone else said. It doesn't quite roll off the tongue that well.
#1. Roughriders. Feels strong and is a name that would be a unique D-I moniker.
#2. Nokotas. For the North Dakota only/Nodaks crowd. Also a combination of the state name that is unique and would actually lend itsel to a good logo.
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So-o-o-o. Maybe Jones will get the job at Wisconsin Green Bay. ;-)
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Well, not to dismiss it but there's always going to be plane crashes periodically. To be honest though, I've always preferred Flyers to Pilots or Aviators anyhow if that's the route the new name went.
Hatton Flyers - a tribute to Carl Ben Eielson. UND grad and Alaskan aviation pioneer. First to fly over the North Pole.
Flyers would also be a nod to the small town schools that are being swallowed up in consolidations like North Prairie.
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Invite the Montana's... ;-)
Sure... They would want to leave the solid, stable conference they were founding members of to join the revolving door now known as the Summit. ;-)
If UND were to replace someone like Youngstown, that would put 5 Summit Teams in the MVFC. The MVC schools do not want to share control of the football conference with their "weak sister", the Summit League. On the other hand, if there were 5 Summit teams in one conference, it would only take one more (UNC?) to form a Summit Football League. Can you say NCC 2.0?. Again, something the MVC members of the MVFC do not want, since it would leave only of half their teams. So, despite Herd's assertion that UND would be able to get an invite to the MVFC, there are indeed obstacles to overcome.
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Ditto -- I hate Rough Riders, too. That's Red River HS mascot. It's too long (too many syllables to say in a cheer without shortening it). And a Rough Rider never set foot in any part of the state except the Badlands.
How many syllables in Fighting Sioux? Same as Rough Riders?
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I must have missed it... When did UND get an invite to the MVFC/Summit league?
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You folks are way way too wound up over some fish wrap column filler's mindless musings.
All this person did is take the statements from the "expert" (that schools to tend to use a color and a bird) and come up with something they thought to be cute.
The writer could have just as easily come up with something just as < gag > original like "Black Hawks" or "White Owls" or "Green Falcons".
Y'all need to grasp that this is a story in the FARGO Forum using someone from Northern Arizona University as the consulting expert. Cannot believe it has ANY traction anywhere outside this fan forum.
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Living in southeast Arizona, my insight to what the committee is thinking comes mostly from this forum. That said, I think I remember reading a few years ago that Roughriders was getting support from several different directions. It is, after all, one of the state nicknames and makes sense in the Jayhawks, Sooners, Tar Heels type of reference. If it is an animal, would expect Nokotas to be a front runner.Not what you want it to be, but what you think will be a consensus type pick.
In all deference to the variety of names proposed in other threads, I do not expect a name with ethnic ties to be selected (i.e. Norse), nor, in this politically correct world for it to be 'Fighting' anything, and especially not the Big Cocks. If it is not the Roughriders, which despite SiouxPhan27 and Fetch's complaints is one of the best names to rally around, then a guess would be for it to be a color or weather phenomena (Blizzard, Storm, etc).
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This is where it gets frustrating. Try to lay down some objective facts/information or assemblance of supporting logic and the obvious happens. So then I try to just go with innuendo like everyone else and i get ripped for no supporting evidence.
Bet Sac State wanted to whack their coach a few years back.
Oh come on! Where are your facts that support Jones? Maybe that he is such a good coach that he has had to turn down offers from other schools so he could stay at UND for 9 years? You are just playing the Devils advocate here and haven't backed up your arguments with anything concrete that Jones has done. Meanwhile, there have been multiple posters that have given facts of Jones' records, tenure, player attitudes, on court selfishness...
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Are you sure that it isn't referring to Bizun fans being the biggest dicks in the country?
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So there's a chance?
Yep! We need a Hail Mary Home Run Hole in One 24 point Shoot Out conversion!
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So, y'all are sarin' that Jones is so bad he will not be picked up by another program (reducing UND's cost in buying out his contract).
That should be the first clue that he shouldn't be coaching a D-I program with aspirations to become a relevant/winning program.
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Eielson was from Hatton ... They used to be the Flyers. I know Dayton uses Flyers, but it would be a tip of the cap to the aviation program, a distinguished pool of alumni and the history of Class B schools that have been absorbed into co-ops.Eielson was an Ice Pilot, but I think we can do better than that. Pick an animal or a plane nickname.
Another thought -not Brave, The Brave.
I understand that some posters on this board are really pushing for no name, but really do not think that is a realistic possibility.
"We can't continue to be a 'fighting question mark' or designated as something else," Kelley told the House Education Committee. "We have to move on."
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Kelly's position on no nickname:And the Herald's version of the sa
And the Herald's version of the same story...
"We can't continue to be a 'fighting question mark' or designated as something else," Kelley told the House Education Committee. "We have to move on."
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If I'm meeting a MBB coach at the Moorhead Starbucks to talk job, it's not the one from Concordia. But I'm pretty sure there's another around there worth talking to.
Taking over a team that was 10-17 prior to his arrival, Walthall, in his second season at MSUM, took the Dragons to the NCAA tournament, recording a first-round winOK, MSUM is D II.
So here is a pretty impressive statistic from the article...
Walthall has never had a losing record in conference play in 11 years as a collegiate head coach.
Big Sky Athlete Stipends
in NCAA News
Posted
Thanks Sica