Bisonfan1234

GSC North Alabama Valdosta State Southern Arkansas Delta State that's an easy one.

Seems perfectly logical to me. Why should a school get to call themselves D1 when they only have 1 sport D1? NDSU is a D1 team however since every sport including football is in D1.

On the contrary: http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/sponssummary . Go to this site and scroll down to Men's Ice Hockey. You'll see 7 D2 hockey teams. Crookston is actually one of them although they're independent. The rest are apart of the ECAC. But that is still besides the point because the NCAA could really make D2 hockey for real by making all the teams that have D1 with the rest of sports in D2 be D2 in hockey. Also all the D1 hockey teams that are D3 in all sports should be made to play D3 hockey.I think this makes perfect sense and i would definately support this logical change by the NCAA.

Read the quote from sioux7. This part especially: "...or should I stay home and watch the bisssssson men play Mayville State in Basketball. ..." (notice his lack of correct punctuation). I'm first to admit that NDSU bball isn't the greatest, but like you said, that's not the topic. The only reason i brought up UND's hugely embarrasing loss to UMary was in responce to this point. Diggler, i guess you got me. By my own opinion a school should have to play all of its sports in the same classification as it plays its footbal team. So, in other words, NDSU should have to play all sports in D1AA. Oh yeah, whoops, D1AA only exists for football. D1AA is a subset of the D1 set. D2, however, is a different set alltogether, a *lower* set. UND (and other D2 schools who are allowed to play D1 hockey) should have to play all of its sports in D2 just like it's football.

-No, they lost to them in Basketball by alot. - We arn't trying to be a D1 hockey school - Being better than UND is a very realistic goal -I think you misunderstood what i was saying. I wasn't saying that UND hockey wasn't good enough to be in D1, obviously they are. What i was saying is that since all your other sports are D2...then your hockey should be D2. You shouldn't get to play D1 hockey unless you're a "real" D1 school (meaning that all your sports are D1). Also, in case you didn't know, a D1 school can have football in D1AA. - UND does routinely beat real D1 schools. But UND isn't a D1 school! THey're a D2 school and they should be forced to play hockey at the D2 level with the rest of the D2 schools that have D1 hockey.

What was the score of UND vs. University of Mary? We don't aspire to be like UND, we aspire to be better than them. It's not like they're better than us now, though. I'd say we're even. But now we're D1 and they're D2. The fact that UND has D1 hockey is a fluke of the NCAA. They let a D2 school have D1 hockey because there are very few schools that play Hockey. But IMO the NCAA shouldn't let schools have one sport be D1 and the rest of the sports be D2. So UND, UMD, Bemidji, etc would be D2 hockey while the true D1 schools like Minnesota, Maine, Wisconsin would be D1 hockey.

Are you saying that Montana isn't a better program than any D2 team?

I think NDSU could definately beat any of the teams in the play-off field. We beat Montana, remember? They're better than any of those teams.

LOL! You guys beat Pittsburgh and Winona. WINONA!!!! LOL LOL LOL!! Not that the south is the only place that plays good football....but UNA is going to put on a clinic in the hilarious on Sat. UNA 42 UND 7 GVSU 14 TAMUK 7

The opening scene could have been filmed anywhere that had snow and a road. The "king of hearts" bar is in Minneapolis, not Fargo.

Perhaps we'll add women's tennis and women's swimming/diving.

You are exactly right. However, wouldn't you at least partially agree that in the next 2 years the "playing field" will only be skewed a fraction in NDSU's favor? Certainly not enough to make it the impossibility for a UND victory that you make it out to be. The main thing i don't understand with your argument is how you can be so against playing schools with more scholorships than you and be for playing schools with less scholorships than you. It suggest contradiction IMO. *** As far as the play-off format goes. I think it's best to say that this season we would have benifitted from a national format vs. a regional format. Now, with that being said, is it possible to have a season in which we would have benefitted from a regional format vs. a national format? Yes there could be. Say, for example, there are many stacked teams in the south and east regions. They would push NDSU out of the top 16 nationally but we might still get in if we are the best team in our region. So there is clearly a case where each format is better. THIS IS NOT WHY NDSU IS LEAVING D2 !! The state of North Dakota is a small (in terms of population) state. But we're not an unimportant state! Nonetheless, other, more populated states look down on us as stupid farmers. NDSU and president champman have been and continue trying to change this image! Moving to D1 is all about image. We are upgrading; we are moving up; and we're taking the rest of the state, kicking and screaming in some cases, up with us. Hear me now when i say that if UND should decide to stay in D2 for much longer, they will be playing second fiddle to NDSU in the state of North Dakota for the rest of time. NDSU will have built up such an advantage over UND that it will look more like Minnesota-Duluth vs. Minnesota-Twin Cities. And nothing short of a small fortune will allow UND to overcome this. I know it, NDSU knows it, and , most importantly, UND knows it. UND alums especially know it and i claim that they will not allow UND to fall to the side. They will, sooner/later, force UND to move up to D1 so that they can stay competitive with NDSU. When this time comes, prepare for a new generation of NDSU vs. UND. A D1 generation.

I fully understand your point and view on the rivalry ending. Placing guilt is not an exact science, however. IMO you can't simply say that NDSU's point of you not signing the contract has no merit whatsoever. You claim that NDSU will be playing with an advantage. I do no dispute that. However, the question is "how much advantage will it be". To justify not playing them because of their advantage seems to suggest that no team should ever play a team that has a scholorship difference because it would be unfair. But UND played played both UM Crookston and Newbury who were both at less than 36 scholorships! Ah ha! Contradiction! But of course, is it as big a difference as a team with 63 playing a team with 36? IMO, no it's not. Nonetheless, i think this proves that NDSU's argument has merit. How much merit? Well...in my opinion as much as UND's argument for NDSU leaving. But UND fans will inexorably say that it has less merit and NDSU fans will say it has more merit.

I would also just like to say that when a company's revenues go down, it doesn't necessarily mean that that company is losing profit! It could simply be that they've downsized on the number of events they host as well as downsizing the operating costs.

That is a very good analogy, and you made a lot of valid points as to why NDSU is at fault for ending the rivalry. However, their are some things that you left out. I'm not sure if you want me to explain NDSU's side of the story in terms of your analogy or not...so i'll do it in both. Analogy first. *** Husband: That's great, honey. I knew you'd understand. And after the divorce, we can still have sex, right? Wife: Huh? Are you crazy? Of course not! Husband: Why not? Just because we aren't married doesn't mean we can't have sex. And when we do have sex it brings us both a great deal of pleasure as well as other people who like to watch us have sex (sorry...this analogy is going to get a lot more risque from here on out ). Wife: I don't think that it's fair that you should still get to have sex with me and be with the beautiful new women. Also, now that you're with the new women you'll have gained a lot more skill in sex and so you'll be able to have your way with me more than i'll be able to have my way with you (they're very competitive during sex, no?). Husband: You're right, it wouldn't be fair and thus i don't want to have sex with you until you decide that you should marry a handsome, rich man and also gain more skill in sex. However, do think that during the first 2 years of my new marrage, i won't have gained a significant amount of new skill in sex as to where our sex will become one-sided. So i say, lets have sex for 2 more years, and after that we can call it quits until you decide to marry up. Ok? In fact, here is a contract that guarantees we can have sex at both your house and at mine so it will be a fair arrangement for the 2 years. Wife: No. I'm too scared that you'll have your way with me for me to comply. I don't ever want to see you again, reguardless of how much pleasure we give to ourselves and others. *** So you can see, in your original analogy you had dual definitions for the word "relationship". You first used it to define marrage (which represents both the schools being in devision 2) and then you used it to define sex (which means the games that UND-NDSU play independent of anything else). You can't logically do this. It is a fallacy. In other words, just because we aren't in the same division doesn't mean we can't play each other! We can still play and in fact we have offered to play you for 2 more years. But you have rejected that offer claiming that you refuse to play us when we have more scholorships. NDSU comes back with the fact that just because a school has more scholorships doesn't mean it will automatically win. Especially in the first 2 years. And then UND comes back with.... and then NDSU comes back with.... so on and so forth, forever and ever. As you can see, each side just keeps coming back with points that would put the other at fault. It never stops!! BUT, In general...the 2 biggest things which would place fault ( [1] it's NDSU's fault because they un-leveled the playing field by moving up to D1AA, and [2] it's UND's fault because they won't sign the contract that has been offered) cancel each other out and thus the only positions you can logically argue is that it is everyone's fault or than it is no one's fault.

Indeed. And UND's point was that NDSU's point of "leaving because of a crooked system" was wrong. Then you'll notice that in one of my posts i said that we like the format better than D2's format, we're not leaving because we think the D1AA's format has less flaws. As for this current discussion. PCM has just proved my point. On the topic of "who is at fault for ending the rivalry" UND will argue till the death that NDSU is at fault while NDSU will do the same only vice versa. It's stupid. No one is to blame for the rivalry ending because both sides have valid points...and everyone is to blame for the rivalry ending because both sides have valid points. In other words, to place blame on this topic is to say that one side's points are more/less valid than the other sides points which is simply not true (IMO). I refuse to pick a side simply because one side has no more truth to it than the other.

Everyone is at fault and no one is at fault. My point was, it doesn't matter what the subject is... if Bison fans say the answer is Blue then UND will immediately conclude the answer is Red.

#5 - Nothern Colorado Hmm....yeah i don't think this guy is all that great at making polls. Polls are a waste of time anyway.

You can keep our nickel warm for us until you move up to D1. I don't, however, think that we should play when UND is D2 and NDSU is D1AA. The deck would be stacked in our favor (in other words, we'd be too good for you). Yeah you're right...it is funny! HAHAHAHA!

The *real* issue here is simply the rivalry between NDSU and UND. It's gotten to a point where it's sickening to me!! Enough already!! When NDSU says that something is A UND says it's B! The 2 schools will litterally argue the opposite point of each other out of spite! Example: who is at fault for the rivalry ending. I'm glad the rivalry is taken a few years off before UND comes up to D1. There isn't a lot of difference in the amount of flaws the the D2 and D1AA systems have. They just ahve different kinds of flaws. It's like arguing apples vs. oranges.

So what you're saying is that UND could compete easily with NDSU even when UND is D2 and NDSU is D1AA....interesting. How come you won't play us again?

I think the main thing we're hoping to get away from is that the top 16 teams in the nation get in... versus the top 4 from each reigon. If we had this system in D2, no doubt NDSU would be in.

Not our league anymore...and we could get any recruit we want over you because we're D1 and we can over them a lot more money than you can.

They'll televize it...they make too much money with advertisements to not.