Bison06

A couple of weeks into camp and only a couple weeks away from the Wyoming game, how is the UND fanbase feeling about the outcome of this first game with the Cowboys? Given UND is an NDSU opponent only 2 weeks later, I'll be very interested to see how UND matches up against an "NDSU style" of gameplan.

I agree, it's been great to see how far both programs have come. Living in the Minneapolis area, it's great to be able to see games on ESPN 3 and other streaming modes that have become more available.

Which only further shows how far NDSU has come in terms of exposure. Many FBS programs would kill for the exposure NDSU has in the region. Wyoming is no exception.

http://www.cowboyaltitude.com/2013/12/11/5199382/a-look-at-craig-bohls-contract-with-wyoming Coaches aren't paid by getting the first game of the year against an FCS opponent on TV.

It's the forward lean and lack of prancing. Find a hole and hits it, not a lot of shiftiness to either of their running styles.

I disagree, because that was said after the fact. The original point surrounded Woden's comment about NDSU being above hockey, nothing to do with anything that you and others have tried to spin it into. Just trying to point out a double standard that exists at times among people taking shots that aren't associated with the topic at hand. No need to hash it any further though. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

We both know it was an unneeded pot-shot. Calling it anything else is ignoring the facts.

That's a reach to connect those two points and you know it. He was trolling.

One has to wonder why it was brought up in a discussion on this topic then. Trolling goes both ways it appears.

Each athletic department chooses which sports to participate in, NDSU has chosen, for a variety of reasons, to not sponsor hockey at this point. Choosing to not sponsor a sport does not make it beneath an athletic department, just as NCAA wrestling isn't below the UND athletic department. They just choose not to participate.

Very balanced view of what actually has gone down in the last 12 years between the two schools. Nice to see it on paper without all the bias that goes along with these types of conversations usually. This is going to be an exciting couple of months leading into the game in September. I'm hoping to get tickets to a game against our real rival. SDSU has been a solid fill in and UNI definitely has the fanbase's hatred, but it's not the same.

Well let's talk about UND football then, after all, NDSU will be matching up with them in September so I'm curious to know more about what you think. As an outsider, I feel like UND's front seven will be a strength, but may be able to be attacked through the air if the QB can get enough time against that attacking, confusion creating defense UND is famous for. What do you think?

How do you feel the UND offense will be by the time the NDSU game rolls around? Do you expect them to be working hard to establish the running game or will they be looking to get the QB in a rhythm and get down the field?

I'm a little nervous about the safety position. Less worried about the D-line and linebacker positions. I saw enough in mop up time last year from these guys to know they will be serviceable and with experience have the potential to be great. The athleticism of the guys replacing the two safeties is great, but that doesn't always translate to a player understanding the system. Hopefully it doesn't take them too long to figure it out.

I agree with this. This offensive line, on paper, could be one of the best in recent memory. We'll see if that translates to success on the field. I think Morlock is solid, but doesn't have that intangible quality that makes a running back great, or at least hasn't shown it yet IMO. Frazier hasn't been given consistent carries to be able to show what he truly has. Running backs in my experience need a little bit of a rhythm to really show what they have and to be able to make the right decisions. This was a problem for Crockett early on. He would only get carries sporadically and felt like he needed to hit a home run with every carry. That lead to him not hitting the hole where the play was designed to hit. I think this logic applies to both Morlock and Frazier, we really haven't seen what they really have yet. I don't know much about Dunn, but the people who have seen him play seem to think he is going to get the starting job. Which is surprising to me given what we have coming back. As with all things, we'll see I guess.

Finally some real football talk from NDSU fans in a thread about UND and NDSU, and you think it should be taken elsewhere?

Honestly, the best team NDSU has played in the most recent championship run was Illlinois state in the championship last year. The only thing Georgia southern proved in that game against NDSU in the semifinals was Jerrick McKinnon was the best player on the field that day. If the system was what gave NDSU fits, what happened the year before when NDSU completwly shut them down?

If you want to piss into the wind and waste your time pointing the few exceptions that prove the rule, have at it.

Football teams' offense, defense and special teams are not played in a vacuum, they affect each other. So to say Georgia Tech doesn't win championships, but it's not the offenses fault is flawed logic IMO. It's because of the offense that they will never be a serious contender for the national championship. Sure you can put up points, but it takes time and you have in most cases no passing game. If a veer team is trying to come from behind, the game is essentially over in most cases. Having the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type of offense has it's advantages. Keeps your defense fresh, controls the TOP, but it's fatal flaw is it's lack of consistently being able to pick up explosive type plays(over 20 yards). When a veer team is getting consistently tackled for losses, which can happen a lot if they run up against an assignment sound team, they are constantly "off schedule". Veer teams don't have a lot of high percentage plays for converting a 3rd and long. None of this mentions the ultimate fatal flaw of this offense, especially in today's game, recruiting. Players want to play in a pro style, multiple type offense. They want to be able to showcase their talents in a way that has NFL scouts taking notice. Good luck trying to recruit quality receivers who will spend 90% of their career as glorified full backs.(Megatron was an anomoly) Everyone who has had criticisms of the veer/option offense is absolutely correct IMO.

Not to split hairs, because you make a valid point, but 18 points is nearly double 10 points. This is why matchups are so important in this game. Who knows why UND played better than their season average against a good Montana team. Maybe the coaches had a great gameplan, maybe UND players just played better that day, maybe UM had an off day. How many examples of comparative scoring/stats having no correlation when comparing two teams do we need before everyone just stops bringing this up in a discussion. There is absolutely no correlation to how teams played against common opponents and how they match up against each other. NONE.

Couldn't agree more. At NDSU we had nutrition counseling from our strength and conditioning coach as well as a summer menu and grocery shopping list. My guess is the S&C coach at UND has something similar in place. The summer requirements for workouts are not THAT demanding. 1.5 lift daily and 1 hour 7 on 7 drills a few nights a week. Players should be able to make due with no problems. Get a job and buy some eggs. Couldn't have said it better myself.

It is intentional. I agree that the scholarship reduction was part of the decline. Where we differ is what the scholarship reduction did. It didn't show NDSU had poor coaching or ONLY won because they had the best players. When you play a game with certain rules for a long time, you get used to winning a certain way. When the rules change, any rule, teams have to adapt to the new rules and find a new way to win. NDSU it seems, was slow to get back to an elite team. Maybe NDSU coaches were used to having a certain amount of depth at certain positions due to the extra scholarships, maybe having those extra scholarship players in practice everyday pushed the starters to be better. Who knows. Also, as others have noted, you can't stay on top forever. It isn't as if they went from winning championships to being the worst team. Looking back at the records from the "dark years" NDSU still beat UND 5 out of 10 times in the 90's. And as I said, if NDSU wins that god awful game in 2000 at Delta State(I know, big if) we are possibly talking about going 10 years in between NC's, instead of 21.

I agree, different levels, different conversation. But the point is still there. The great teams have both. Great coaches and great players. A third more intangible thing is also necessary for a great team to come together toward a common goal. Maybe NDSU got fat and happy with having the best players, who knows. But what I do know, is when the scholarships were lowered, NDSU wasn't as dominant. It can't be a coincidence.

No, it's both. If you give Phil Jackson UND's squad and you give Brian Jones the '93 Chicago Bulls, the Bulls win 100 out of 100 times. Also, it isn't always as if you are lining up against your third choice. Recruiting is an inexact science. You think Billy Turner was better than the guy who played LT for the Gophers during Billy's time at NDSU? Probably. But at the time they were being recruited maybe the other guy seemed like less of a risk. Who knows, if the Gophers had one more scholarship, maybe it was earmarked for Billy. He then gets into camp and beats out this other guy. Who knows.

It is a very interesting question. But in all honesty, when looking at the "dark years" for NDSU, there were still some very good teams in there. They just never won it all. If NDSU wins the championship in 2000, we're having a very different discussion about these "dark years".