Bison06

Two fundamental points that seem to get lost are: 1. Whether it is true or not, NDSU fans and administrators see playing UND as helping UND and elevating UND's status (your welcome to argue the point, but that is the perception on our end) 2. With point #1 in mind, the game would have to be a financial windfall for NDSU fans and administrators to get on board willingly. All that posters on this board and others have shown is that playing the game would be a financial wash at best, and that is with bumping up ticket prices to make it a "premium game". It's not that we don't get it at all, I think you don't understand the situation from our perspective or maybe don't want to. I think we all know that college athletics is a business. In thinking of it as a true business and UND as a direct competitor to NDSU's success, recruiting, funding, students. Why would NDSU want to elevate UND's status by playing them at this point?

I actually agree. I think up until this point NDSU had too much to lose by playing this game, and I think if the situation were reversed UND would be saying pretty much the same thing. As a competitor I say we should have been playing UND all along, but I admit, during the past 4 years, playing a game against scared me a little. Only because NDSU had moved up and SHOULD win the game. But it's a rivalry game and anytime that is the case either team could come out on top. So it makes sense to me that NDSU has waited until UND was on equal footing in terms of scholarships. That way in the event that UND wins the game, which has always been a possibility, it is far less embarrassing. Now before you say "I told you NDSU fans were scared", understand that UND would have thought the exact same way had they made the move up first. I don't want this to come off as condescending, but I'm sure it will. It's similar to when UND played USF. UND gained absolutely nothing from playing that game. USF is considered by the public to be an inferior opponent, a savvy football fan knows that USF is a quality program and actually might have fielded a better squad than UND that year. It is still a point of major embarrassment for UND to lose the game. That's how I have felt the last 4 years. I am confident we would have won, but I know how the game works and once you step on the field with a team you are opening yourself up to a loss, even if it seems like a remote possibility. Long story short, it makes much more sense to get serious about scheduling this game now that UND and NDSU are back on "equal footing".

Dave do you mean to tell me that in 2015 when Back to the Future II comes to fruition, you won't be lined up to get the self drying coat and the power laced shoes? I'll be in line getting my hoverboard with my hydrated pizza hut pizza and you'll be bored at home. Jump on board my man, the future is fun. Assuming we don't all die this December of course.

Whoops, my apologies, missed that. Carry on

You are all neglecting a talking point that should hit near and dear to each and every UND fan that has ever lived. Donations. How many donations are made each and every year to academic programs from wealthy former athletes who went on to thriving business careers or even played professionally. I don't know it for sure, but I have no doubt at least some of Ralph Engelstad's money goes to academic programs, I am sure the same is true with T. Boone Pickens at OKST. Neither of those two would have donated a dime without the athletic programs. Heck, even a guy like Jim Kleinsasser may become fairly sizeable academic donor in the future and he wouldn't have gone to UND if they didn't have athletics. Edit: Sicatoka beat me to it.

So, put aside for a second what you think should be the outcome when the dust settles with all of this. What do you think will be the actual outcome? I think the vote comes back and UND changes the name to avoid sanctions, ultimately losing DaveK as a fan.

Remind me what brought Braden Hanson to UND, Aeronautics?

I think the question they have to ask themselves is: What is our end-game? If your goal is to capture the Sioux Falls market and the alumni who live there, are you hoping Sioux Falls natives get a taste of the product and commit to making the 60 mile drive to Vermillion in a few years? They've already shown they aren't willing to do that now. Will that change in a few year? Who knows. On the other hand, if the end-game has them making this a tradition then I think it is a good idea. If the first of these two is true, I think USD is setting themselves up for failure and setting a dangerous precedent for the alumni and people of Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls natives will be thinking if USD will do it this year why don't we just continue to not drive 60 miles to Vermillion to watch this team, make them come to us. I think the fact remains that if you can't get "loyal" fans to drive 60 miles for a game on a Saturday, they aren't very committed and probably aren't going to be huge donors anyway.

Interesting, I agree, the parity in college hockey seems more prevalent than every other sport. Thanks for your take.

I am sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I have always wanted to ask college hockey fans this question and this year seems to be as good a year to ask it as any. With lesser known teams playing for the national title and some years winning it. eg. MN-Duluth, Ferris, Union. Is that a good thing for the sport in your guys' eyes or does that only fuel the naysayers fire that hockey is a DI sport played by alot of DII and DIII teams? I hope this isn't taken as me trolling, because it is a sincere question.

Just because I have Bison in my name makes me a troll?

Oh that's right, I have to be a Sioux fan to have any sort of interest in a University in my home state. Additionally, anything that I say that might be viewed as negative towards UND will only be because I am a Bison fan, not because it just happens to be my opinion. If the admins at UND were worried, do you think they would make it public knowledge? I am not saying it is a fact, only that it seems to be a possibility with the NCAA's track record with UND.

What's funny is I actually read that here. So maybe what's thrown out on Siouxsports isn't always reality, believe it or not. With UND's history with the NCAA, do you really not think it is a possibility? They do what they want as history has shown. Keeping a team in transition because you won't abide by their rules would seem like business as usual for the NCAA.

I may be wrong, but isn't it possible that the NCAA wouldn't allow a team that is currently on the sanctions list to transition until they are off the list. Again, that has been thrown around a bit, but not sure if it has any truth in it.

How far is your drive to GF darell?

I disagree, the only reason this rivalry isn't considered similar to all the other "Big" rivalries, is because people in our part of the country have more respect for each than to turn it into a violent life-altering rivalry. ie. Texas fans cutting the testicles off an Oklahoma fan. The other reason would be the size of the fanbases.

For those of you who are actually willing to change the name, what are the criteria you will use to determine your front runner. Originality, connection to the state heritage, connection to the University's history? Just curious.

Let's just say it would be the biggest event in the state of North Dakota from the perspective of the people of North Dakota.

Who is Alexander Ovechkin?

I don't think the stats in this case tell the entire story. Simply comparing run yards vs. pass yards/game to determine if the league is "finesse" can be misleading. It is a style of play that earns the Big Sky the label of "finesse" and the MVFC "smashmouth". For example, West Virginia with Slaten and White, was the epitome of finesse, but they gained a large majority of thier yards on the ground. This years SHSU team is another great example of this. I actually think that UND being built as more of a smashmouth team will benefit you guys in your early years in the Big Sky, the styles tend to clash and you can have an advantage if you can not turn the ball over and play decent defense.

That was my understanding as well. The game will be played within the next 3 years I believe.

What is the word on the Nickel if/when the Sioux name goes away? Never to be played for again I would assume. New trophy?

The only argument I believe makes sense is to play the game just to continue the rivalry, which IMO is enough reason to get it done. But, UND fans seem to be trying to come up with some sort of logical reason to continue the game, IMO there isn't one. It will be an emotional decision to continue the rivalry because it is fun for the fans.

I gotcha, it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like from the UND side of the financial equation. Big gain for UND in playing NDSU is my guess. Also, your equation is predicated on NDSU only getting 18,000 for the game against the other team. I believe within 5 years it simply won't matter who we are playing it will be a capacity game. Not necessarily butts in seats, but from a tickets sold perspective, which is all that matters when talking money.

What does that argument have to do with NDSU v. UND? Every situation is different, I can't speak intelligently about the non-conference scheduling strategies of those schools. What I do know is UND fans on this board seem to be throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. First we talk about financially why NDSU is making a bad decision by not playing UND, then when that is disproved we talk about the state deserves the game, then it's we are rivals we have to play each other. I am in the camp that would like to see the game played, but UND has far more to gain than NDSU does financially. When it is a rival institution, you think twice about helping them out. If the situation were reversed UND would be doing the exact same thing.