Bison06

Remind me where I said that it used to be better. Are you of the opinion that conferences have exactly the same level of play each year? Or is it possible for a conference to have a down year?

I don't think the winner of the Great West should be automatically ranked no. I think we can look at each conference on a year to year basis and determine if the quality of play within the conference is at a high enough level to warrant a certain ranking. Last year, no, and believe it or not it has nothing to do with my opinion on UND. There were no playoff teams out of the Great West last year, even if UND and USD were eligible they still wouldn't have made the playoffs. So, no, I don't think that last year the Great West was playing football at a high level.

Don't flatter yourself, it's the offseason and there is nothing else to do.

Well I wonder why that would be Darell? Could it be that NDSU fans don't really care about USD and they do care about UND?

You can think whatever you would like to about my motives, but go ahead and check the resumes of the teams ranked 24-18 at the end of last year. UND doesn't match up at all. 24-18 gets you a number of playoff teams or teams that at least beat a playoff team. UND didn't even play a playoff team. USD didn't deserve to be ranked either.

I don't care one way or another and it doesn't bother me. Most people have conversations all of the time about things that don't bother them or things they don't have a say in. I am just having a conversation about football during a reaaaaaaaaally long offseason.

I agree. 5-3 is a fair way to look at your season. But who were those 5 wins against? Drake Southern Utah Northern Colorado Davis South Dakota Scheduling during transition is very tough I understand. And you can only play the teams on the schedule, I get it. That doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day UND still IMO didn't have a schedule and a record that warranted a ranking. I think an unbiased person would not be impressed enough with those 5 wins to put UND in the top 25. Southern Utah at the time seemed like a good win and it is easily the most impressive on that list, but they turned out to be a dog too. Take away the fact that you are a UND fan for a second. Do those 5 wins impress you enough to crack a ranking?

Are you of the opinion that with UND's record and schedule that UND deserved to be in the top 25? If you are admitting that UND most likely cracked the top 25 due to a mistake then the rest of the season is skewed and you know it. Pollsters tend to not move a team very far unless they have a dramatic win or loss. I couldn't care less from NDSU's standpoint I am just saying from my perspective that's how poll voting works at the 15-25 range. Nobody pays a whole lot of attention and will just look at where they were last week and if they didn't do anything earth shattering won't move a team very far either way. http://www.fightingsioux.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=58644&SPID=6399&DB_OEM_ID=13500&Q_SEASON=2011 I am all for giving credit where credit is due, but if you say that after the fresno state game it was likely a mistake to put UND in the top 25, tell me where in the rest of the season UND proved they should be there? Southern Utah is the only impressive win on the schedule.

Great, what do you propose we do about that? More legislation? More laws that will only lead to discrimination against whites? IMO inacting laws/rules like the Rooney rule in the NFL are an insult to black people.

How do these people not realize they are perpetuating the issue they claim they want eradicated? The only way racism will ever go away is to stop talking about race. What possible end-game could these people have in mind that doesn't end in discrimination of the "white people"? So they would advocate trading discrimination of minorities for discrimination of "white people"?

Well from an outsiders perspective, I would be extremely impressed with a 7-4 season with that schedule in UND's first year of eligibility.

Not saying there is anything wrong with having high expectations, but to expect what in reality amounts to 8-3 with that schedule is pretty lofty IMO.

I should have phrased that differently I suppose. I would consider 5-6 pretty darn good, 6-5 is the most likely with that schedule, and everything better than that would be considered a great success.

I am sure this has been talked about in another thread, but what record would UND need to achieve for you guys to feel the season was a success? I just popped over and looked at the schedule and it looks formidable. Looking at that schedule, I would think 5-6 or better would have to be considered a great success. Thoughts?

Haha, you cause trouble everywhere you go and being that I would rather have a rational conversation you think that makes me an ass kisser. That's rich.

It happens. We all look alike.

Another case of lumping all bison fans together. I didn't say anything about classless, that was Bison Dan, who is here to troll. Please point out to me where every single one of my posts is trolling.

Fact is a word that describes something that can be proven. Provide data and I'll believe you. Here's my perspective on the situation. I come here often and see the same NDSU posters talking alot, so it may seem like there are many of us, but it is just the same guys posting over and over again. So I am thinking like 4-5 NDSU fans post here on a regular* basis? There are 3-4 UND posters that post on a regular basis on BV. *Regular meaning at least once a week

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I just don't see it happening that NDSU fans are always trying to turn the conversation to football. If it is happening it is just as bad as UND fans turning it to hockey. I will admit, NDSU seems to have a number of fans who troll message boards just to get a rise out of other people, but I am not one of them. I may disagree with things that are said here and pop in to offer my opinion on it, but rarely do I comment with the deliberate intent of pissing people off. I get involved in some witty banter back and forth from time to time, but usually only when another poster makes a funny/depricating comment towards NDSU first. There are plenty of UND fans who come to BV and do exactly what I do here. They get involved in the conversation and if a false comment is made about UND they are quick to correct it and offer their perspective as a UND fan. Doesn't mean they are obsessed with NDSU, it just means they have an interest in the things that are being said on the message board.

I can get on board with that, but I am of the opinion that the success NDSU is enjoying now is directly related to that success in Division II. I think the success that UND will have at the DI level will also be directly related to the tradition and groundwork that the former players and champions in previous years have laid. Without the D2 days, NDSU doesn't have such a strong alumni base to support the football team and other sports through Teammakers. They don't have a bunch of people who remember the glory days and show up in hoards in Texas to watch it happen again. 1-0 is fine with me, but the history does play a role in future success so I think it is relevant to honor that.

What point are you trying to make? If you are having a conversation about football, ofcourse NDSU fans are going to talk about football. You are missing the point of my post. My point is that here we are in a football forum talking about football and hockey comes up. Why don't I bring up all the track and wrestling titles NDSU has? Or the fact that the softball team has made the NCAA tournament x number of times since the move up to DI? Because they have nothing to do with the conversation. I think it is interesting that the point that there are NDSU fans here is constantly being brought up and IIRC it is usually specifically by you. Now, you personally may not be active on other fanbase's chat boards, but I can assure you it is not an uncommon thing. There are plenty of UND fans that post on BV, so for the sake of your credibility, just let that point go for good.

I honestly don't mean this as trolling, because I have always wondered about this. As a UND football fan, doesn't it get old bringing up another sports' accolades to "win" arguments with NDSU fans. We all know UND hockey is great, it doesn't "hurt" me when a UND fan talks about hockey. I don't happen to be a fan of the team, but I am well aware of their place in NCAA hockey and the Ralph's place in the world in hockey circles. But here we are talking about football and the minute it the conversation turns to championships it seems like someone always says well we have 7 of those. No you don't. That's hockey. I am not trying to be a dick, but it is seriously weird that you can be having a totally normal conversation with someone about one sport and 9/10 times turns to talking about another sport altogether.

I am a member on egriz too, we didn't play them last year.

No redshirt for me big guy. I guess I didn't realize that the environment a game is played in is dependent on who ends up winning the game. Interesting thought though.

I don't mind the comparison at all, I think it makes a lot of sense. A point that I meant to elaborate on in my previous post and then didn't is how most teams' success ebbs and flows, even if it is only slightly in some cases. eg Ohio St, Alabama. In general, good/great programs tend to build up over the course of 4-5 years, it doesn't always show on their record due to outside factors, but in general it is true. Many factors fundamental to how the game of football is played are at play here and I will speak more on this point if anyone is curious on why I think that this is the case. So, a team will get one or two really solid recruiting classes and over the course of the next 3-4 years the team gets better and better. Ultimately this will culminate with one or two season where the expectations are very high and sometimes the program hits a high water mark at this point it time. Ok, specifically why I think this applies to the comparison is I believe NDSU and UND are at different points in this cycle exiting the transition. When NDSU was in the final two years of the transition, they had arguably two of the best teams they had ever had. They were at the end of a cycle and naturally had a low point in the cycle following those two years. Had the natural cycle started two years earlier and ended two years earlier, we may be talking about an '06 or '07 NDSU national championship team. For arguments sake, let's say this cycle is a 5 years cycle, year 1 being expected to be your worst year and year 5 being expected to be your best. NDSU started their eligibility in year 1, I believe UND is starting their eligibility later in this cycle. Maybe year 2 or 3. Please don't think I am making excuses for the NDSU program those first two years of eligibility, because I am not. They did not get the job done, period. But there is a cycle that takes place in college football due to recruiting classes and when a team has success there tends to be a let down the following few years. I am hoping NDSU is able to beat the odds this year and repeat the success they had last year. Let me know what you think.