Bison06

I have never said I don't care about UND, I just don't care to see NDSU play UND at this point. I know the conversation is moving fast here but try to keep up.

Whether or not the PR is paid for is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact remains that NDSU would be using it's resources to help UND more than it helps NDSU.

When the list runs out?

I honestly don't even know how to respond to that Darrell. Are you saying that you think NDSU will be scheduling DII and DIII teams like UND did in the coming years?

Great, so be happy in the Big Sky. We'll be happy in the MVFC and that's it. We don't need each other and you'll see that in the coming years with scheduling.

Again, I understand how PR works. But, using your Coke analogy, do you think coke benefits as much from putting out an Ad where they also mention pepsi in the ad? This used to happen far more often in the PR world, where companies would address their competition by name in their ads. Now they compare themselves in thier ads if they feel the need to, but you'll notice they NEVER mention them by name. The car insurance industry has been the most notable as of late. You'll see Nationwide or Statefarm run an ad comparing themselves to that "other company" (Geicko)and then use a lizard to signify the Gecko. But they will never actually mention the other company because they realize that by mentioning their competitors in an ad they are paying for eyeballs as you put it. Dominos is doing the same thing, they show people delivering pizza and it is obvious they are comparing their product to Papa John's and Pizza Hut. But they will never show their competitors logos or say them by name. Playing UND is the equivalent of Statefarm saying they are better then Geicko in a nationally run ad. Some people just see the Geicko part of it and Statefarm loses some of the advertisements impact. You don't share the spotlight with a direct competitor and expect it to be a 100% PR gain for you, especially when you can just as easily play a different team and get 100% of the PR. I'm sorry if you can't grasp this concept.

Hahahahaha, now I have heard it all. How does playing UND help NDSU build it's brand? I can't wait to hear this one.

I agree with most of this, as I have said, if you want to argue that playing this game is good because of the historical significance I am on board with that.

I understand PR just fine buddy. National title is old news? haha. Come to the home opener at the FargoDome next year and tell me it's old news. You're entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that from a PR perspective playing UND helps UND more than NDSU.

He said replace the FBS game not me. Someone has already done the leg work on the numbers on this board, let's find that post and then we can talk about the specific numbers.

I don't know the specifics about what we charge or make for a home game, but I have seen many posters on this board and others go through the specific numbers and the issue comes in that NDSU loses the revenue from a home game. Fans and administrators have made it quite clear that as long as it is allowed NDSU will strive to play an FBS school every year. So taking that game away isn't an option at this point, like you said who knows where we'll be in five years. But, for now, that's how NDSU chooses to play the scheduling game. Also, if you plan on replacing the FBS game with the UND game how do you account for the missed revenue in that scenario?

From NDSU's perspective we don't need the game to have more awareness brought to the program and the school. NDSU football and NDSU as an institution is far more popular right now than at any other time in NDSU's history. You're telling me that we need to "help" a direct competitor to increase awareness? I'm not buying it. The only reason from NDSU's perspective to play the game is for historical significance. Honoring the tradition of playing the game. Which, by the way, is a pretty good reason, but that's it. Any other reason that has been stated here or anywhere else is just internet fodder to try and win the argument. Financially it's a wash at best. PR, IMO actually would hurt NDSU. You keep saying, "would be good for both schools" .In reality, it would be great for UND for all these things to happen. I for one want the game to happen. For the reason I stated above, but not for financial or PR reasons, those don't hold water IMO.

Every time you play someone you can lose, doesn't mean you are afraid of it to admit that fact.

Two fundamental points that seem to get lost are: 1. Whether it is true or not, NDSU fans and administrators see playing UND as helping UND and elevating UND's status (your welcome to argue the point, but that is the perception on our end) 2. With point #1 in mind, the game would have to be a financial windfall for NDSU fans and administrators to get on board willingly. All that posters on this board and others have shown is that playing the game would be a financial wash at best, and that is with bumping up ticket prices to make it a "premium game". It's not that we don't get it at all, I think you don't understand the situation from our perspective or maybe don't want to. I think we all know that college athletics is a business. In thinking of it as a true business and UND as a direct competitor to NDSU's success, recruiting, funding, students. Why would NDSU want to elevate UND's status by playing them at this point?

I actually agree. I think up until this point NDSU had too much to lose by playing this game, and I think if the situation were reversed UND would be saying pretty much the same thing. As a competitor I say we should have been playing UND all along, but I admit, during the past 4 years, playing a game against scared me a little. Only because NDSU had moved up and SHOULD win the game. But it's a rivalry game and anytime that is the case either team could come out on top. So it makes sense to me that NDSU has waited until UND was on equal footing in terms of scholarships. That way in the event that UND wins the game, which has always been a possibility, it is far less embarrassing. Now before you say "I told you NDSU fans were scared", understand that UND would have thought the exact same way had they made the move up first. I don't want this to come off as condescending, but I'm sure it will. It's similar to when UND played USF. UND gained absolutely nothing from playing that game. USF is considered by the public to be an inferior opponent, a savvy football fan knows that USF is a quality program and actually might have fielded a better squad than UND that year. It is still a point of major embarrassment for UND to lose the game. That's how I have felt the last 4 years. I am confident we would have won, but I know how the game works and once you step on the field with a team you are opening yourself up to a loss, even if it seems like a remote possibility. Long story short, it makes much more sense to get serious about scheduling this game now that UND and NDSU are back on "equal footing".

Dave do you mean to tell me that in 2015 when Back to the Future II comes to fruition, you won't be lined up to get the self drying coat and the power laced shoes? I'll be in line getting my hoverboard with my hydrated pizza hut pizza and you'll be bored at home. Jump on board my man, the future is fun. Assuming we don't all die this December of course.

Whoops, my apologies, missed that. Carry on

You are all neglecting a talking point that should hit near and dear to each and every UND fan that has ever lived. Donations. How many donations are made each and every year to academic programs from wealthy former athletes who went on to thriving business careers or even played professionally. I don't know it for sure, but I have no doubt at least some of Ralph Engelstad's money goes to academic programs, I am sure the same is true with T. Boone Pickens at OKST. Neither of those two would have donated a dime without the athletic programs. Heck, even a guy like Jim Kleinsasser may become fairly sizeable academic donor in the future and he wouldn't have gone to UND if they didn't have athletics. Edit: Sicatoka beat me to it.

So, put aside for a second what you think should be the outcome when the dust settles with all of this. What do you think will be the actual outcome? I think the vote comes back and UND changes the name to avoid sanctions, ultimately losing DaveK as a fan.

Remind me what brought Braden Hanson to UND, Aeronautics?

I think the question they have to ask themselves is: What is our end-game? If your goal is to capture the Sioux Falls market and the alumni who live there, are you hoping Sioux Falls natives get a taste of the product and commit to making the 60 mile drive to Vermillion in a few years? They've already shown they aren't willing to do that now. Will that change in a few year? Who knows. On the other hand, if the end-game has them making this a tradition then I think it is a good idea. If the first of these two is true, I think USD is setting themselves up for failure and setting a dangerous precedent for the alumni and people of Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls natives will be thinking if USD will do it this year why don't we just continue to not drive 60 miles to Vermillion to watch this team, make them come to us. I think the fact remains that if you can't get "loyal" fans to drive 60 miles for a game on a Saturday, they aren't very committed and probably aren't going to be huge donors anyway.

Interesting, I agree, the parity in college hockey seems more prevalent than every other sport. Thanks for your take.

I am sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I have always wanted to ask college hockey fans this question and this year seems to be as good a year to ask it as any. With lesser known teams playing for the national title and some years winning it. eg. MN-Duluth, Ferris, Union. Is that a good thing for the sport in your guys' eyes or does that only fuel the naysayers fire that hockey is a DI sport played by alot of DII and DIII teams? I hope this isn't taken as me trolling, because it is a sincere question.

Just because I have Bison in my name makes me a troll?

Oh that's right, I have to be a Sioux fan to have any sort of interest in a University in my home state. Additionally, anything that I say that might be viewed as negative towards UND will only be because I am a Bison fan, not because it just happens to be my opinion. If the admins at UND were worried, do you think they would make it public knowledge? I am not saying it is a fact, only that it seems to be a possibility with the NCAA's track record with UND.