Bison06

You know you'd be bored without us.

Why did you change your post? And my view of law enforcement has nothing to do with me being an NDSU fan or former player and everything to do with my personal experience with law enforcement abusing their power. Again, there has to be at least one defense attorney on this board who knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not getting mad at people for jumping to conclusions, just presenting the other possibilities. Which just so happens to be what the defendant is claiming in this case(what else would he say).

Law enforcement is infallible in your world? You must not know many defense attorneys.

Yes, sorry I was thinking the 2010 season. Which year was Mussman's first year as head coach?

I'm not proud to say I have been in and seen many, many fights over the years. Unconsciousness has very little to do with the ferocity of the attack and much more to do with hitting someone in the correct spot, or incorrect spot depending on how you see it. If you land a solid shot to someone's jaw, they're going to sleep. Now, again, I have no idea if that is the case with Beck. I'm just saying the man ending up unconscious doesn't preclude the scenario from being reasonable self defense. http://www.keepbusy.net/play.php?id=bully-receives-one-punch-knockout fast forward to 40 seconds.

Not sure, I'm not a lawyer. If the video doesn't show the alteration clearly, it seems to me that the only people who are talking are parties directly involved. He said, he said type of deal. I'm sure someone on this board can shed some light on what might happen if this video is inconclusive.

Though it looks like this second resisting arrest charge is warranted. I have seen that charge given out for some pretty "ticky tack" things. Especially if it associated with an MIP. Seems to have a pretty low threshold to be charged with resisting arrest.

I agree, but at least they'll get it right.

What are you angry about? That NDSU fans would prefer the facts come out before passing judgement? Past history? He got a minor. Alert homeland security.

What is this "true believers" reference. I am not familiar with that term. The only reason I brought up Sandy hook was to say that the media runs with the early story and sometimes the official account is different. Obviously the details are different.

http://www.gobison.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=45&path=football http://www.gobison.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=46&path=football UNI is our biggest rival now, they weren't at the time. So the fans didn't have an emotional attachment to winning that game. All that aside. I watched every game from that season and we played well in every single game apart from Iowa State and UNI. Those were winnable games that were lost IMO because of lack of talent at the QB position. Anyway that's off topic. Just saying, there is a difference between getting blown out by the best 2 teams in the conference and playing competitive games and coming out on the losing end. I think if Mussman was in Fargo he would have been gone after this past season if not the one before.

Nobody is saying law enforcement has it wrong. Just that the facts haven't come out yet. He was arrested on the spot, you think they viewed the tape of the fight before they arrested him at 3 am? Did the cops have it wrong at Sandy hook when it was reported that there were 2-3 shooters? No, the media just ran with an early report. No different than what is going on here. Sometimes those early reports are right, other times they are wrong. Nothing more.

"Out card" meaning not removed from the team forever, which is what I expect and will be calling for if no new information surfaces. Even if it was completely self defense, I would like to see him suspended for at least 2-3 games.

Well then for the love of all that is holy, what in the sam hell are you arguing with me about if you agree with that?

What world are you living in, are you even reading what I am writing? Did you miss the part where I said he would return to the team after a suspension for "being in that situation". Never once did I say the words "throw the first punch".

For the record, I am not defending him. If what is being reported in the media is correct, I expect him to be kicked off the team. A few posters are claiming to know something the rest of us don't, could be BS, it's all conjecture until the videos are viewed. But, that is what these posters and myself are responding to.

Good Lord man, take off your blinders. I am talking about self defense. If it turns out the other guy came at him and ended up getting cold cocked it is a bit different than what is being reported right now. If Travis was backed into a corner and attacked and the other guy winds up the hospital, then damn straight he should be back on the team at some point. AFTER a suspension for being in this situation.

Haha, good effort. But, I've read that thread too and let me shed a bit of light on those out of context quotes that you are using as 'proof' NDSU fans want him to play this fall regardless of what he did. 1st quote is a fair point by that poster. If it turns out the facts are different than what is being reported and he wasn't the aggressor he shouldn't be completely kicked off the team. 2nd quote has absolutely nothing to do with getting him on the field. Only that he will be supported. Nothing wrong with that. 3rd quote responding to someone who is saying Beck wasn't the aggressor. If that is found to be true, I would be in favor of him returning to the team after a suspension. As would most people. 4th quote completely tongue in cheek, context my friend, it would serve you well to read between the lines. 5th quote if the video indeed does show him to be the victim in all this, why wouldn't the charges be dropped? 6th quote he was responding to someone saying he should be kicked out of SCHOOL. Again, it helps to read what people are responding to. Any more brain busters?

As usual, SiouxVolley doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

This is exactly what I was getting at. The criticism of the team from my perspective has been lack of fundamentals, which falls directly under coaching. Yet, many in this thread are saying "wait until Muss gets his guys". I don't get it. It doesn't matter if you have Ray Lewis playing middle linebacker, if you don't get him in the right defensive set and give him the proper keys, he looks like a pop warner guy. I hope we can agree that NDSU has been well coached the entire time under Coach Bohl. Yes they've had some down seasons, but even in the down years, we were in every game(I don't subscribe to moral victories. Different than acknowledging NDSU playing well and still losing) due to NDSU's great discipline and fundamentals. I am of the opinion that a well coached team will appear well coached even if they have less talent. SIU is a great example under Lennon. They have been poor in the win loss column, but if you watch them play you KNOW they are a well-coached hard nosed team. Upgrading talent doesn't put you in the right defense, it doesn't make game day decisions and/or halftime adjustments. I am just curious why UND fans seem to be so understanding of the lack of great football in Grand Forks recently by saying "wait til we have better talent". To answer your question, I believe that Mussman would have been gone after last season if he were at NDSU. It makes sense to ride someone out through the transition, but to get blown out by the class of the Big Sky like that, would not have been acceptable. IMO.

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

Yeah, that's a common place for fights to happen in my experience. Hopefully for all parties the incident was caught on tape. A lot of people congregate there as they walk out of those 3 bars. Couple that with some end of the night "beer muscle" and it's a perfect storm for a male appendage length dispute.

Sports bar, Fort Knox, Ob sportszone.

Feigning concern on this board over those two measures has run it's course and fallen out of favor IMO. Old news. If it turns out he is guilty of these allegations, I would be in favor of removing him from the team. A bar fight can happen to a lot of people, but self control is needed. These young men are highly trained and very strong, they need to understand the potential they have to SERIOUSLY hurt or kill someone when they get into brawls. Hope they guy turns out to be fine.