skateshattrick

I was wondering the same thing. Did anyone see the game that has some perspective on this?

If you believe that point totals tell you who is a better player, than you really don't know much about hockey. Point totals don't tell you the style of play of the team, the talent surrounding that player, the caliber of competition played against, whether that player is good defensively, how good that player is along the boards or on faceoffs, if the team rolls 4 lines, if that player gets most of his goals on the power play, etc. A case in point is Jon Toews for the Sioux. There are many players in the league that have more points this year, and virtually anyone with any hockey knowledge would not say that those players are better because they have more points. Look at his performance in the World Juniors. He simply doesn't have enough help around him at UND. I am not ripping Eric Meland, who is a very talented player, but point totals tell only a small part of the story. It is clearly a matter of opinion, but I would take Zach Miller over him any day. If Klein was on South or RR, he would probably put up similar numbers. With all due respect to his teammates, Tyler Klein doesn't have enough help and it is easier for a good team to key on and shut down 1 or 2 players. Wurden is a defenseman, so its a little like comparing apples and oranges, but he appears to have a very bright future beyond high school. I'm really not sure that Eric Meland is as good or any better than Powers or McDougall from South or Tanner Hills and Tanner Anderson from Grafton.

I disagree. Galbreath and LaDoucer are probably top 5, and I really like Meland, but you are overstating his talent. Danny Wurden of South, Zach Miller of Grafton and Tyler Klein of North deserve consideration before Meland. You could also make a case for Tanner Hills, Zach Welding, Ian Powers, Sean Deichert, Tyler Swanson and a few players from the west.

Great post by one of the most reasonable posters! I agree completely.

You can't hang that on Jon Toews. Maybe the coaching staff, the other players, etc., but not him. This kid is special and you will miss him when he's not here. In my opinion, he's the most talented player in the WCHA. He just doesn't have enough players around him this year. That will be apparent next year when you see what he does in the NHL.

It's funny how selective your memory is. In 2004-2005, the Rodents were SWEPT at home by Michigan Tech, SWEPT at home by CC, and lost and tied AAU at home. They still made the tournament, only to get embarassed by the Sioux in Columbus. OH YEAH, I FORGOT ABOUT THAT!!

I'm not sure that I understand your post. The reality is that the Sioux don't really have an identity. They are not like the Blais teams of the late 90's and earlier this decade which were built upon speed, passing, quick transition and an up tempo type of game. The Sioux have a few of those guys (very few), but too many role players that are big and slow and are not suited to an up tempo game like UM plays. The defense is neither physical nor very talented offensively. Honestly, I'm worried about this team. Other than Toews, Oshie, Duncan, Chorney and maybe Lee, I don't see a lot out of the younger guys. I see a lot of 3rd and 4th line guys from this year's class and even last year's class. I would like to see even more faster skaters like Panzer, Blake, Hoogsteen, etc. On defense, if we are not going to have guys with offensive skills like Goligoski and Ballard, why not get the bigger, punishing defense like Greene, Commodore, Matt Jones, etc.? Finley is big, but doesn't use his size and doesn't have quick enough feet to keep up with faster forwards. Jones and Bina try to be physical at times, but get walked way too often. I like Chorney, but he has no physical compliment on D. Lee has talent, but does play physical enough. It's as if he can't decide whether he's a finesse player or a physical player. Radke has speed and plays physical, but gets himself out of position too much.

The paper said it was 4-2 and that North scored the 4th goal with 21 seconds to go in the game. The shots were also even.

First, no, you can never be too fast. The best Sioux teams were built on speed. See Blake, Hoogsteen, Parise, Smail, etc. Second, that is particularly true with Olympic sized ice and the stricter enforcement of the rules. Finally, this team is not very fast. Fabian, Forney, Lee, Vandevelde and many others do not have good speed. Kozek has good speed, but poor hands and no instincts. Porter is fast. Toews is smooth and above average speed. The lack of speed is one of the problems. Jordy Christian would have been an excellent fit.

Good post. I agree, especially with 2 and 3. I really do think Toews and Oshie are doing their part, but they have been playing through injuries and are carrying too much of the load.

Great post! I agree 100%. However, as Hakstol said also, occasionally we need a goalie to make a great save, not just the routine ones that he is supposed to make. I only saw one of those on Saturday and none on Friday. I saw Elliot make 3 in the first period on Friday alone. In the current funk the Sioux are in, they really need that. Plus, the tying goal on Friday was absolutely deflating. The game winner on Saturday can be looked at two ways: If Finley ties up his man, there is never a shot. On the other hand, there was no reason to kick out that big rebound, so the converse is also true. I really do believe that the Sioux will turn it around, but it is critical that the goaltending be better AND that the defense starts playing better. The Sioux have to start winning some 2-1 games or 3-2 games if they expect to be a legitimate contender in the WCHA.

I think that I understand what he/she is saying. The Sioux (much like the Gophers and Wisconsin) recruit 2 types of players. First, they recruit top line players (blue chip players) that are very likely only to stay 1-2 years (Parise, Toews, Oshie) or if they are lucky, 3 years (Smaby, Stafford, Bochenski). The Gophers have done the same (Kessel, Ballard, Eric Johnson, Okposo). However, you also need players expected to play 4 years. That may be because they are perceived to be too small (Duncan, Hoogsteen) or they are not expected to play in the NHL. If I follow the reasoning of Stickboy, it is that this year's class did not include any bluechip players like Toews, Oshie or Parise in contrast to past years or in comparison to UM's class which seemingly has many. That means that if we lose Toews and Oshie, there is pressure to bring in more blue chip players that will make an immediate impact. Otherwise, the Sioux become like MSUM, MTU and AAU and finish in the bottom 1/2 of the league. That is not UND's goal, nor should it be. With UND's tradition and facilities, there is an expectation that we will get our share of the top recruits and compete with Minnesota, Michigan, BC and others at the top. If we are only recruiting role players that stay 4 years, and you are not getting the blue chip recruits, you will soon find that the Sioux will not be able to compete for a national title, which is the goal and expectation of this program. With all due respect to UMD, MTU, AAU, and even SCSU in the recent past, we do not want to be in that position. That is precisely why Ralph gifted the REA, to make sure that the Sioux were always a top flight program. We want to be like Michigan and Ohio State in football, not Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, etc.

I agree with you about Oshie, but in fairness, he's been playing with a hand injury all year. Toews has also been banged up but, in my opinion, has been great all year. Zajac unfairly took criticism last year for not scoring. Stats are only part of the equation. One of my pet peeves is people who get hung up on stats. Look at all the little things that Toews does--he's great defensively, great in the corners and makes everyone around him better. Unfortunately, he's been keyed on all year, and deserves many more assists. He has set up so many opportunities that did not find the back of the net that it's almost unfair. If I have one criticism of Toews, it is that he does not shoot enough. He's a great player. There is not a better forward in the WCHA. Much like Zach Parise, enjoy him while you can because he is most likely gone after this year.

I have read a number of posts, and want to offer my two cents. I agree with HockeyMom that it is ridiculous to call for Hakstol's job and that we should support our team. However, I am concerned about this team this year for the following reasons: 1. The goaltending has been atrocious. The 2nd goal on Friday night would have been a weak goal in a Squirt or PeeWee game. It was also a back breaker. The 3rd goal was not all his fault because Genoway got caught up ice, it was a poor line change, and it was a 3 on 1. However, if Lamoureux stays on his feet, that goal cannot go in from that angle. More disturbing is that our goalies seldom make a huge save. Even when they stop most or all of the ones that they should stop, they seldom make a very difficult save. I did see Lamoureux make one save like that in the 3rd, but they are too few and far between. Brian Elliot made at least 3 in the first period and many throughout the weekend. The goaltenders really need to step up or this will be a very long season. 2. The defense has not been much better. Finley made a critical mistake at a critical point of the game last night. Taylor Chorney (who is the best and most reliable defenseman) made a critical mistake on the 3rd goal. Lee made a number of bad plays throughout the weekend, the worst of which was when he skated by the crease on the 4th goal on Friday. Genoway similarly did not tie up his man on that goal. Jones got walked all weekend, resulting in penalties. Even worse, the defense has troubling getting the puck out of the zone, meaning that the forwards have to come back and help. That means no transition game, and it means the forwards are worn out. 3. The Sioux have not been scoring goals, but they scored plenty this weekend to sweep against a top end goaltender. They also generated many chances (at least the top 2 lines). The forwards also have to spend too much time in their own defensive zone helping out the defense, and Toews, Oshie and Duncan are getting worn out from killing penalties. The top 2 lines are playing well, but the the 3rd and 4th line are not contributing much. Fabian, Kaip and Kozek need to start contributing. The freshmen class has not had much of an impact as of yet. 4. Worst of all, I really do not want to travel from Fargo anymore to go to these games because of the frustration, primarily with the goaltending. I have been a season ticket holder for over 20 years, and a Sioux fan all of my life. I have gone to games over the years no matter how the team was doing. During Gino's last years, there were very few fans in the seats and you could throw a grenade into the stands and probably not risk hurting anyone. We always made the trip regardless. This year is different. The frustration level with this year's team is so high because (1) expectations were high with Toews, Oshie and all but one defenseman returning and (2) times have changed. With the new arena, it is expected that the Sioux will at least be a contender, not ever get swept by AAU anywhere, and not get swept at home. I am concerned about the fact that there is no sense of urgency with many of the players (obviously Toews, Oshie, Duncan, Watkins and Porter are excluded), there is no atmosphere in the REA for most of the game, and the goaltending is simply the worst I have seen since Andy Kohler. If they don't turn this around soon, the Sioux are going to be playing in front of some much smaller than expected crowds. I for one am getting tired of this year's product. The ONLY reason that I go anymore is to see Toews, Oshie and Duncan.

South and RR look to be a step ahead of the others. It's hard to say who is better, but South had impressive victories over Grafton and White Bear Lake. Sean Deichert may be the difference. I was at the Grafton game, and although North won, I still think Grafton is the better team. They need to stay out of the box and straighten out their goaltending, but they should be okay. I would put it in this order: 1. South and Red River 3. Grafton 4. Devils Lake and North Central will be in the thick of it before the year is out, and may grab the No. 4 spot.

Holy Cross! You are right. It's amazing that Gopher fans like you so desperately need Sioux fans to reinforce your belief that the Gophers are the greatest thing since sliced bread that you troll around Sioux message boards telling everyone just that, and jumping on anyone who dares disagree. What's the problem? Not enough hugs as a kid? Holy Cross Syndrome?

Great post! You actually beat me to it. Contrary to some people on this board, I view dissenting opinions as what a message board is all about. If this board is just going to be a lovefest, what differentiates it from GPL? I don't think that there is anything wrong with being critical about the team or players at times, as long as it is done tactfully. I don't agree with a lot of Lives-to's posts, and some opinions are worded a little too strongly for my tastes, but I think that he is entitled to his opinions as long as he does it respectfully and keeping in mind that players and their parents sometimes read these boards.

I personally like and appreciate your information. Please don't let a few surly posters discourage you--most people are very receptive to the information that you provide.

If you go to http://westerncollegehockey.blogspot.com, there is a recent poll of Minnesota AA hockey. Moorhead is No. 3 and and Roseau is No. 7.

I don't disagree that the offense is also not performing at a high level, but AAU has traditionally been difficult to score on because they play a trap and force their opponent to play dump and chase hockey (it hurts to even say that phrase). Additionally, good offense is generated by solid defense, particularly a transition game that the Sioux do not have right now. I also believe that this team can and will turn it around, but there is no way that they can win consistently if they are in shootouts. Ask Minnesota last year down the stretch (remember St. Cloud? )

Why can't we expect to win 2-1 games against AAU?? They traditionally have been one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, and that is typically how you beat them. This year, they scored only 2 or 3 against MSUM, Wisconsin and Tech. Plus, the Sioux have traditionally been a team that wins with defense. If we continue to give up goals against weak competition like MSUM (4 and 5) and AAU (6 and 4), we will be in serious trouble when we play teams with more offense like UM and DU. Whether it is goaltending, the defense, or the forwards not taking care of the defensive zone, UND needs to right that ship soon.

In all likelihood, it would be a supervisory writ or a writ of mandamus. The ND Supreme Court would have to accept the writ first.

I really do not want to get into a spitting contest with you either, and acknowledge that you are entitled to your opinions. I also do not disagree that the USHL is a superior league. However, my point is that the USHL is getting to be a younger league for prospects, and that the NAHL is much closer than it was a few years ago. I think that is evident by the number of D1 scholarships which increase every year. What I do have problems with, however, is that you made a statement that is not true--that Phil Fox left the USHL because of the speed of the game. He never said that, and the fact that he received a D1 scholarship to Northern Michigan demonstrates the fallacy of that contention. Finally, I don't have any problems with your opinions, but you always manage to take gratuitous and unnecessary jabs at the NAHL, such as saying it is the level of a decent high school team. If that comment was intended solely to be mean-spirited, it accomplished that objective. However, it is untrue. If you attend any NAHL games (which I gather you do not) you will see that the level is far above high school. It may be below the USHL, but it is still Junior A hockey and very good hockey.

I would ask that you cite or produce that article in which Fox allegedly said that the speed of the game is greater. I don't believe that you can because it simply is not true. The USHL being faster is a myth. Ask Brooks Dezellar from the Jets who just returned from Sioux Falls. He had no trouble with the speed of the game, he was just told that he was too old. By the way, he was a standout with Holy Angels. As far as comparing the NAHL to a decent high school team, that is just untrue and demonstrates that you do not know what you are talking about. Many of the players in the NAHL have USHL experience, and most were among the top players from their teams in high school. If you look at the Jets, Grant Larson and Marc Mihulka have not exactly been lighting it up, and they were among the best players in ND. Several other top players from ND who played the Elite Leagues and did well did not make their roster or the roster of any NAHL team. If you look the rosters of the teams around the country, you will see that there are quite a few players who came from the NAHL and it is increasing.