skateshattrick

That is a tired argument. Most of these guys have had success at every level. Zach Parise and Brandon Bochenski in particular were used to success at every level. Bochenski was on the state champion Blaine Bengals and the USHL champion Lincoln Stars. Parise won at every level, at SSM and in the World Juniors where he won gold. However, money talks and if they are ready, they should go. If they are not, they should stay. If the Sioux players all return, they will have scary talent, at least on par with UM. They will also have Darcy Zajac, Chay Genoway, Michael Forney, Chris Vandevelde and Jake Marto. I'm sure that the Sioux will be just fine next year and really will not be in awe of the Gophers.

The more you post, the more foolish you appear. You incessantly want to talk about Bison football on a Sioux hockey message board because of your obsession with the big brother being more successful. I never have and never will visit a Bison football message board. Why? Because I really, sincerely do not care about Bison football nor the high school with ashtrays known as NDSU-- probably less than I care about George Mason basketball (at least they are in the big dance and have national exposure). You, however, spend a lot of time here trying to convince us that the sky is green and gold. PLEASE go away.

Pretty much equals?? What color is the sky in your world? Keep telling yourself that Alice and you and Toto will be home from Wonderland and back in Kansas soon!! The Bison are irrelevant to every Sioux fan and to every D1 program outside of Fargo. The Sioux are discussed by every team on every message board from Maine to Boston College to Michigan to Wisconsin to Minnesota etc. Do us a favor and PLEASE go away and stop trying to convince us that any of us care about the Bison.

Exactly! I have never seen a bigger case of penis envy than Bison fans!

Anyone can manipulate statistics to support their argument. The fallacy of this analysis is that the comparison is made of all 1AA football programs and all DI hockey teams (and hockey is for 03-04, not current). Why not a comparison between UND, UW or UM hockey with the Bison football team? The Sioux average over 11,000 per game, the Gophers over 10,000, and Wisconsin is even higher. The Bison probably do not average that much for a home football game. However, just assume that the Bison drew 20,000 per game, which is "pie in the sky." They play 5-6 home games per year for an unrealistic total of 20k x 6=120,000. The Sioux play on average 20 games per year with an average of 11,000. That is 20 x 11k=220,000. The numbers are not even close. Plus, realistically, the Bison probably average 10-15k per game, even with its skewed attendance figures. Add it TV viewership and its not close---MANY more people will watch the Sioux v. Gophers or Sioux v. Wisconsin than the Bison v. anyone. Common sense tells you that---unless you are a Bison tool with rose-colored glasses.

The awards are up on the WCHA website. 3 Sioux made the 3rd team, Drew Stafford, Matt Smaby and Jordan Parise. Brian Lee and TJ Oshie made the all-rookie team. Toews and Chorney got screwed, IMHO. Toews is WAY better than Raymond. Chorney is better than Butler or Lee if you look at his +/-, but apparently, the people that vote just look at points.

I have seen Raymond 4 times against UND and twice against UM. He's a good player, but in my opinion, is not close to Jon Toews. His numbers on the score sheet may not show it, but I believe Toews is the most consistent and most talented freshman on the Sioux. He is excellent defensively, great away from the puck, strong on faceoffs, strong in the corners, and very smart. I would not trade him for any freshman in the WCHA. He is very underrated.

1. Karl Goehring 2. Ed Belfour 3. Jon Casey 4. Aaron Schweitzer 5. Darren Jensen/Jordan Parise I never saw Lefty Curran in college (I saw him in the pros with the Minnesota Saints), but understand that he was pretty special as well.

I happen to agree with you. In fact, if Minot had not lost Jordan Willert to the USHL and a few other players, they probably would have competed for a state title. That same group won Bantam A's just 3 years ago. I agree that the West is weaker because of lack of competition, but there are good players from the west. As far as Tyrel McBain is concerned, however, I think some people get preoccupied with points. He is a good player, but I'm not convinced he is even the best player on Hazen-Beulah---Jerad Borlaug probably is, but gets less attention because he plays defense and does not get as many points. Points is a function of who you have around you, who you are playing, and the style that you playing.

In reviewing the Pairwise rankings, the Sioux are given credit for only 1 quality road win and 1 neutral ice win. I'm not sure that I understand, and I would appreciate it if the Pairwise gurus could help. I assume that the neutral ice win is Miami. However, the Sioux beat CC, UM, New Hamphire, Denver and St. Cloud on the road. I would think that at least the UM and CC wins would be quality wins, if not Denver and UNH. What is the criteria?

Minot 3 Central 2 South 8 Devils Lake 1 Grafton 4 Williston 1 Red River 5 Bismarck 1 South 6 Minot 2 GFRR 4 Grafton 2 South 4 Red River 2 (with an empty net goal) Good luck to all the teams, especially South!

I agree Wilbur. Minot lost close games to RR, Grafton and Central. I would not be surprised to see them win. Devils Lake has a nice team, but they will be no match for South. DL lost at home to North and Jamestown. Williston may give Grafton a game, but Grafton has too much overall talent if they stay out of the box. RR will have no trouble with Bismarck. RR is too strong in the defensive zone and has way more depth. My predictions: Minot 3 Central 2 South 8 Devils Lake 1 Grafton 4 Williston 1 Red River 5 Bismarck 1

I have the same questions. The CCHA has not done that well against the WCHA or others. Here is a sampling: 1. Miami 18-6-2 and 21-7-4. Lost to UND 3-0. [0-1 v. WCHA] 2. Michigan State 13-7-6 and 19-10-7. W v. UND 3-0. L v. Wisconsin. T v. Minnesota. L to CC 6-3. [1-2-1 v. WCHA] 3. Michigan 13-9-4 and 18-12-4. L v. Minn. L v. Wis. L v. CC [0-3 v. WCHA] 4. UNO 12-9-4 and 18-11-5. L twice to MSUM [0-2 v. WCHA] 5. Lake Superior St. 1-11-4 and 15-11-6. No games against WCHA. 5. Northern Mich. 12-12-2 and 18-14-2. Split with SCSu, Swept MTU, L v. Wis. [3-2 v. WCHA] 7. Ohio St. 11-12-3 and 15-15-5. Split with CC. L to Wis. L and T with Alabama-Huntsville [1-2 v. WCHA] 8. Ferris State 9-11-6 and 14-13-7. L v. NH, Split with BSU, T v. BC, W v. Denver [1-0 v. WCHA] 8. Alaska-Fairbanks 10-12-4 and 12-16-4. W and T v. UM. 3 of 4 v. AAU. [4-0-1 v. WCHA] 8. Notre Dame 10-12-4 and 12-16-4. L v. CC. L v. Denver. Split with MSUM. [1-3 v. WHCA] 11. Bowling Green 8-16-2 and 13-19-2. L v. Merrimack, L v. BC, L v. Clarkson [0-0 v. WCHA] 12. Western Mich 6-16-4 and 7-22-5. L v. Wis. Losses to Wayne St, Robert Morris, Niagra. [0-1 v. WCHA] It appears that other than UM's early hiccup against AFU, and Denver's loss to Ferris St (while missing players to World Juniors), the WCHA's "top" teams have handled the CCHA. Minn, Wis and CC have owned the top teams from the WCHA. MSUM beat UNO twice handily, and they are 7th in the WCHA. The top team from the CCHA, Miami, lost to UND. I don't get it. The CCHA appears to be the most overrated conference. Do they have dirty pictures of the Pairwise Rankings committtee??

Thanks for the information. Where did you get this from? Was it in any newspapers or posted?

Yes, RR/South is the EDC championship game. South and Red River will be the No. 1 and 2 seeds from the east, depending upon the outcome of the game. The winner of Grafton/West Fargo will be No. 3 and the winner of North/Central will be No. 4. At State, the pairings should be: No. 1 east v. No. 4 west No. 3 east v. No. 2 west No. 2 east v. no. 3 west No. 4 east v. no. 1 west Red River and South will be in opposite brackets. Assuming Minot wins the west, they will be in the bracket of No. 2 east. Whoever wins the east will likely end up with Grafton in their bracket.

I agree with you DaveK. I am not cynical enough to believe that Grafton would throw a game and then take the chance of winning the next 2 in the loser bracket. They obviously screwed up some teams by their recent losses--- first by losing to Central, and now to North. If Grafton had beaten Central, North would have played West Fargo, Shanley would have played Grafton, and Central would have played South. If they had beaten North, North and Shanley would have played today. For whatever reason, Grafton is finding a way to lose games that they should not. Yes, West Fargo is the better team. They proved it by beating Central 3 times. Central is well-coached and everyone wants to believe that they are good because they are Central, but the fact of the matter is, they are not that good this year. Because of Grafton's recent loss to North, however, I suspect that they will make state because I think that they will beat North unless Welk stands on his head again. I suspect Grafton will also make state, which is too bad for West Fargo.

The points for defensemen are not accurate. Marc Harrie from Shanley has 21 points (11 goals and 10 assists). The cite has not been updated because the last 2 score sheets were not readable.

As usual, good post Jason. There are a number of kids who will try to play on, whether it be at Junior A, Junior B, or even small college. ND Pride listed some of them. There really is some talent in ND, it is just spread out. The Elite 1 and 2 teams did very well against Minnesota competition. It is really a question of opportunity. If some of these kids get a chance, I think they will surprise you. They may not play D1, but they will at least play junior hockey. Some will play college, either at D3 or D1. How is your cousin Corey doing? Is he still playing Junior hockey?

Shanley has no more conference games remaining. North has only South this afternoon at 4:30. Difficult time to play South with the emotional loss of Tony Deichert. Thus, the pairings look like this: South v. Jamestown or Wahpeton (probably Jamestown, although Nick Spenningsby is injured) Red River v. Shanley Grafton v. North West Fargo v. Central. The last match-up is very interesting. Central is playing very well based upon recent wins over Grafton and Warroad. They have also beaten East Grand Forks and Minot this year. However, West Fargo beat them twice this year. West Fargo plays a very sound defensive game and are very physical, so I would not count them out, particularly with Tim Capouch on the bench (West Fargo assistant coach), who is one of the better coaches in the state. It is also interesting that some of our posters who have constantly stated how "terrible" ND hockey is this year, particularly in the east other than South, Red River and Grafton, may not be entirely accurate. That is based upon the fact that South and Red River have had some lopsided scores against the other teams in the state. The other teams, although not great, have some good players and are capable of beating some good teams. A case in point: West Fargo beat Central twice and Fergus Falls North beat Devils Lake on its own rink. They were not embarassed by Blake and Breck Shanley beat Central and Hazen Central beat Minot, EGF, Warroad and Grafton Jamestown beat Grafton and Lake of the Woods The fact of the matter is, South and Red River are just very good. South beat Moorhead (which was no fluke), and Moorhead continues to beat some of the top teams in Minnesota (Centennial, White Bear Lake, Roseau, etc.). South also beat Hastings, Rochester and Stillwater, and pummeled Crookston (the score was only 4-1, but it was very one-sided). South could play with any team in Minnesota this year. The senior group has been beating the top teams from Minnesota since squirts, so the success this year is not at all surprising. South has the two best players in the state, who would excel anywhere--Weisgarber and Galt. If anyone does not believe that, look at the Elite 1 stats for this year. Weisgarber was the leading scorer on a team that was loaded with the best players from Section 8 in Minnesota, including Jordy Christian, McMillan from Roseau, Aaron Marvin from Warroad, etc. Red River is also capable of beating anyone with a strong defense (Delisle, Galbraeth, LaDoucer) and goaltender and a few very good senior forwards (Mihulka, Spies, Brown). Grafton has several elite players with the Campbell cousins, Peterson, Zach Miller, Tanner Anderson and Tanner Hills. There are elite players from North (Klenow, Klein, Fischer), Shanley (Harrie), Jamestown (Welding, Spenningsby), Central (Slominski, Simonson). The problem that the other teams have is lack of depth, but they have good players. Minot lost Willert and a few other players, or they would be competing for a state title. I don't think that ND hockey is "down", it is just that a few programs are way up this year. Best of luck to all of the teams and their players.

Favorite players: Zach Parise, Tony Hrkac, Karl Goehring, Russ Romaniuk, Curtis Murphy, David Hoogsteen, Earl Anderson Best player in any given year Tony Hrkac Most talented player Zach Parise, Troy Murray Favorite defenseman Curtis Murphy Favorite goalie Karl Goehring Best team 1986-87 Favorite team 1996-97 Best Moment Very difficult choice because there are many, but it has to be the championship game in 1997 in Milwaukee. The atmosphere was electric. Favorite Current Player Jonathan Toews Favorite tough guy Scott Dub

No. His response shows he has class. I am telling you that both Tyler Klein and Nick Klenow are good hockey players. Ask any high school coach in the State of North Dakota.

I think that it is sad that this message board has sunk to this level because some people need to rip on players that are still kids. I had previously requested that people be civil, and reminded posters that players and their parents and coaches may be reading this message board. The message from the Fargo North player confirms my concerns and I think it took a great deal of courage for him to not only reply, but to take the high road. His response shows that he has class and he is a very good hockey player. No, he does not play for Fargo South or Red River, but that does not make him or Nick Klenow bad hockey players. In fact, they are very good hockey players that could play for any team in the state--Yes, even South or Red River. Please try to take the high road when posting on this message board. It really is informative at times and I would hate to see it shut down because some posters refuse to be civil.

[ ] I don't see all four of the West Region teams getting beat out in the 1st round this year. There's just too big of a drop-off after South, Red River, and Grafton. Whoever ends up getting the 4th seed in the East (probably Central or West Fargo) is likely to go down on the opening day of the State Tournament.

Yes. However, I am not sure it is more of a function of the style that Hakstol and Berry want to play or if it because the Sioux are not recruiting defensemen with offensive abilities. I tend to think that it is the former since both Hakstol and Berry were "stay at home" defensemen and Chorney and Radke (and even Lee) were touted as defensemen with good offensive abilities. Historically, the Sioux have always had at least one defenseman with offensive abilities--Hangslaben, Kidd, Murphy, Naumenko, Williamson, Roche. It seems that Denver and UM have had a lot of these type of defensemen in recent years (Denver with Caldwell, Skinner and Carle. UM with Ballard, Goligoski and others). I hope that the lack of offensive production is youth, but I doubt it. I agree that it is good to have physical, stay at home defenseman, but it is important to have at least one defenseman with offensive abilities for the powerplay and to carry the puck out of the defensive zone.