dagies

From this Herald story.

I think you get credit for the Final Five run too.

Unfortunately there are people on both sides of the issue who make this statement. It is incorrect. While you are fighting an uphill battle because, let's face it, 90+% of the posters support the name, it's the arguments one makes that generally affect the responses you get. That doesn't mean some people don't have unreasonable responses. That happens. But you can't make a blanket statement like that without looking at your own conduct and how it might have contributed.

You're wrong on that. It's nothing to do with "lost to the Indians". It has to do with being told what to do by a group that claims the moral high ground (NCAA) but really doesn't own it. It has to do with being told that you are wrong without proof that you are wrong. These are reasons to fight.

This has always been the way I've looked at it except I wouldn't say that UND has "adopted the identity" so much as it has tried to associate with the identity. Let's face it, no one, including UND and those associated with the institution, is going to mistake UND sports teams as actual "Fighting Sioux". But like you said, to use the name in the context of sports is certainly meant to be flattering.

Nope. We don't even know who's leaving yet.

He ended up with 18 goals, second on the team to Schroeder who had 19 according to USA Hockey's stats page. Not too shabby. I believe the only reason he's not at UND next fall is he didn't want to accelerate.

I'd like to see me, in the seats, for every home game.

This is clearly not a UND problem alone, as the Herald piece points out. Any attempt to link the respectful use of the logo to these repulsive actions is loose at best and irresponsible IMO. UND officials should never have lagged in investigating things like swastikas showing up in dorms, or any accusations of harassment. That's the disappointing part. Kupchella is right, and I think 98% of the campus, alumni and the community would condemn this behavior. Hopefully this is a wakeup for UND to be a little more active the next time a complaint is made.

I agree with you, Siouxman. There's a chance to do a lot more good with a little cooperation between the parties, than there is by winning a spite battle, which will only end up with more negative emotions.

Anybody who quotes Steve Buscemi is ok in my book.

I'm sure he's more relieved than I am, but I'm relieved for him.

Even the Fool Bears in the letters they've written to newspapers have said the name was given to UND to use. Take it up with them. I didn't use the words "big ceremony" anywhere.

I can see the side of the argument that says "Sioux" is the name of their people and so others don't have the right to use. I don't necessarily agree completely with the statement, but I can understand that side of the argument. That said, hermit, you are wrong. UND was given permission to use the name long ago. UND has used that name for a very long time, and now it has become UND's identity, at least from an athletic and nickname perspective. UND has every right to use that. A somewhat reasonable compromise has been reached on the public opinion impass, and that is to allow the Tribes to decide if they will allow UND to continue to use the nickname or not. The largest difference of opinion now is whether that decision should be left up to a few in the Tribal Councils who may have their own personal agendas, or whether that opinion should be decided by a vote of the Tribes at large. I think any other argument about the meaning of the word Sioux being derogatory is moot considering the Tribes have used that name for so long themselves. Any argument that says UND doesn't have the right to use the name is also moot, being it was given to UND to use. The only argument is whether or not it is acceptable for that name to be removed by forces outside of UND decades after UND began to use it and received permission to do so.

It's still a relevant argument. Regardless of where the name originated from, in the 20th century it took on new meaning and was used by the Tribes themselves. Heck, "Yankees" is very possibly of the same situation. Shall we consider that name derogatory as well? The issue here isn't that the name is derogatory. The issue is whether it is acceptable in our society for non-native americans to use that name as a nickname or an identifier. For that reason hermit's "dago" argument doesn't wash. And yes, being the Tribes gave UND permission to use the name I would say we CAN use the name how we want. At issue is whether it's reasonable for anyone to request that UND give up using the name, and at this point UND has agreed to do so unless they can gain that permission again.

Your logic doesn't flow. That's my exact point. You will get your butt kicked by using those names. However "Sioux" has been a name these people have used to identify themselves for a very long time now. That's why your "dagos" example doesn't work. Keep trying.

Why don't you explain it to me then. I made the point that the names "dagos", "wops", etc are not the same as the name "Sioux". Why don't you offer an explanation that shows that they are the same, then?

Hmmm. I remember a dominant Blais team getting whacked by an underwhelming Denver club with ugly uniforms back in the Target Center in the Final Five. Then there are a couple depressing regional losses by those dominant teams. Teams that rolled through the regular season with impunity. Blais was a great coach, but his teams weren't flawless nor should he be considered that way.

If Wheeler signs with Phoenix there would be no reason for Joe to stay in college next year.

That dog doesn't hunt because Sioux is the name they've used for a very long time. It's a little different than the examples you offer.

I think we'll be looking up at MN in the standings next year. We've had a nice run at their expense for the most part. Might pay the piper next year.

My memory is often faulty but I believe that the failure of those small skilled teams when facing large BU/MI? teams was a factor in Blais changing the mix of players he recruited. Seems like that's when he started getting bigger more physical players. I seem to recall he made comments to that effect, but I can't say for sure either.

I agree. One of the best lines on this site in a months.

"He's so lucky to be with us." That's freaking scary to hear a coach say that.