Teeder11

Those stories usually appear later in the day. Or if they don't it's a computer glitch that is not intended, according to Tom Dutcher, the Herald Web guy. He said every morning at about 7 a.m he does an inventory to make sure all of the loca and regional and state and national stories got online. If he finds any that aren't there that are supposed to be, he gets it up. The Herald web site is a template used by all Knight Ridder papers, and sometimes that makes things difficult. The Herald is at the mercy of a central Knight Ridder computer network office in Witchita or St. Paul, I cant remember which. So, yes, they are all supposed to be there, and they usually are. Sometimes they are not, but that is not intended. Your turn.

The editorial content that is the topic at hand is all there, that is the stuff that reporters get paid to write -- is all there.

Boy, you write a lot, but you never say anything! Oh, I get it now. God! I am so slow, you were going after GK the whole time. My bad. Just had to decode you encryption first. Thanks.

Like I said, you can get the Herald for the same price online that it takes to access this Web site. In my opinion, and though people don't want to admit it because it's more fun to bash the quality of the paper, the reason people cancel has more to do with the fact they can read it for basically free online now. Good. I was hoping you would say that the paper was held to a higher standard. That's a first on this message board. Just a query, but I wonder if DAZ would have led off its news cast, had they known about the UNDIA meeting, would they receive the same criticism. Or do their shiny smiling airhead faces make them a nonfactor. You'd think some of them get paid to work on this board, the way they are alway on here day and night 24/7. But I can see why they do it, today is my day off, and I am having a blast.

Wow. Where do I start. This is great, I must say. Let's take Patrick on first, Ok, just talked to Tran, the reporter who was at the meeting. He said UNDIA did not contact the Herald. Someone in the advertising department who must look at this message board notified the newsroom. So, that shatters that whole thing about UNDIA seeking pub, even though they probably weren't dissappointed in it. GK, was the one seeking pub, and he did that on here, as I understand it, not with the Herald. Tran had no idea what he was getting into and he had no preconceived notions. He's basically the city hall reporter. Talked to Monique Vondall, too, the faculty adviser for UNDIA.. She said that the Herald called her and asked about the meetingm, when it was to be held and whether it was open to the public. Sounds like just plain old fashioned proactive journalism got this in Herald, and not some media blitz by the UNDIA officers. Point number 2, for Patrick: I never went to J-school. I am not a journalist. But that is probably plainly obvious to you and other media professionals. Hockey Mom: I must say I love your posts, and they are always perfect. I tend to be in a bit of a hurry when I am writing posts, as I am doing half dozen other things at the same time. Didn't take time to fact check and spell check, sorry. I probably have a bunch of typos in here too, but I think you get the point. Sorry about your fam's connection to journalism... wouldn't wish that on anyone for all the guff one takes. It takes thick skin, I guess. Fred

Listen, every twist and turn of the nickname issue is important to all of us, or esle we wouldn't chat about it ad nauseum on here. What the hell is the difference where it's presented -- in the paper or on some sports message board. Is the paper held to some higher mythical standard than other media, message boards included, and that that is the reason it gets blasted for telling people about the university and their nickname, which they pay for? I've seen some pretty petty nickname subjects discussed on here, but, oh, I guess that's ok, on here. Maybe cause it's relatively free, other than what we pay for an Internet subscription. But the info in the paper is online for free, too, so I don't know what gives. Probably, becuase the paper is just an easy faceless target to criticize without needing to back it up with articulate reasoning. I totally agree that the editorial board has picked a controversial stance on the nickname in order to get people to keep coming back to see what they say next.... but the Herald as a whole is committed to Sioux sports and the nickname. They have a suite at the Ralph for Chrissake! Oh and Hockey Mom, your easy slams of the Herald editing could be assigned to any daily paper in the country that deals in a million words a day. You would do no better if you were in some of those people's shoes. That's not a shot at you, just the reality of working in the business. I used criticize my hometown paper, too, until I worked in one, and found out what they face day in and day out just to get information out. I could say whatever you do is so easy, but I bet if I actually sat down and did it, I would have a different perspective. That is unless it involves a slurpee machine. I could probably do that. Fred

I don't know, I am not going to assume here, again. So I will ask -- are you saying there is something wrong with trying to generate headlines? Yout got some PR background don't you? You've done a little of that, haven't you? I guess it has to do with the subject (oops that's an assumption). You'r not wrong. But there's nothing wrong with what they're doing, either. (That's an opinion.) Oh crap, I forgot -- Journalism 100: Never offer an opinion. Pro-nickname people pine about it being on the front page; anti-nickname people cry because it was presented below the fold. The paper can't win no matter where its put for all the arm-chair editors that are out there. I must admit, you got great opinions though. And you are fun to debate. Fred W.

PCM: It made the front page of the Heraldo becuase it was new news that no other media in the region had. In case you didn't notice, DAZ, DAY, KNOX, KVLY and the "Borum" were tripping over themselves to get the news in on Thursday after the Grand Forks paper had it. It also was bigger news for the paper because -- Holy Cow-- here you actually have a UND group, of students no less, that claim they were neutral on the issue. The relative exclusivity and the unique aspect drove it to the front page, I would guess. You didn't say this, but your post was dripping with this whole pervasive assumption that the current news writers at the Herald hate the nickname and want to get rid of it. The editorial staff maybe, but not the news room. And contrary to popular belief the news room leaders call the shots on how the things are going to be played. Jacobs and his crew rarely make it to the news planning meetings where the issues are discussed. I know you know the Herald better than your giving off. Shocking? Harldly. Other than that ... PCM... keep up the great work. I really enjoy your posts. -- From a former Herald employee

Per Sioux-cia's questions: DeMers voted for the resolution to get rid of the nickname and logo. She offered her anecdote about the American Indian student not coming to UND all on her own. The usual anti-name and logo suspects were there sitting in the peanut gallery: Liegh Jeanotte, Lucy Ganje, Jim Grijalva, Doug McDonald, Donna Brown etc. There were other American Indians there, not many though, and I don't know what their affiliation to UND was. Other than Doug McDonald, who may be at least part Indian, no American Indians spoke on the issue, for or against. There was at least one minority student who spoke up in opposition to the resolution. He was not American Indian, though. I can't remember if I got all your questions, or not, but I hope this helps. IF you want to know anything else just ask, and I'll see if I can recall.

No, I think you guys do a pretty good job of that on your own. Keep up the good work.

Goon: I was at the meeting (one of the students in the crowd, but not a member of the senate), and DeMers did say that the student was "invited to attend" the medical school. Whether that was on a scholarship of some kind or some other means, she did not say at the meeting--but the stupid people at the Herald got it right. Just FYI. Have a great day!

Clayton: You might be right. Different people can read it different ways. I thought it was just straight forward with no frills. Just the facts, man. Oh well, to each their own.

I think you are right, PCM. Good post. Take care.

From what I am told, It's a bit looser at the Herald than many might think. The Herald top editors are pretty handsoff as far the newspages, and that's where the bias is (the top editors that is). I'm told that the copy editors have a lot of freedom as far as how they lay out their own pages at the Herald. And all the copy editors I know at the Herald, and that's five or six, are all Sioux fans. The sports section also are Sioux fans, except for Kevin Fee, who is much more neutral. The newroom is led by the managing editor, Kevin Grinde, in the Herald's case, and I can tell you for certain that he is not anti-nickname at all. He's a graduate of Bemidji State and cheers hard for the Beavers and the Fighting Sioux. Mike Jacobs, as editor and publisher, has his hands on all divsions of the paper, and tends to spend more time worrrying about the bottomline and the money making ends of the paper -- advertising and circulation.

My bad.... sorry PCM. I just know a lot of the newsroom guys (reporters, photogs, copy editors) at the Herald. They come over for a drink after their shifts and we chat. Yes, I would say that the top managers of the Heraldo have an agenda, but I wouldn't paint with a broad brush. The reporters that I visit with me are all fervent Fighting Sioux fans, including the guy that wrote both stories for today's paper. I'm told that the editors don't pressure reporters to write a certain way, and if they did, the reporters would quit. I guess they're unionized. And many of the anti-Sioux crowd as far as reporters have moved on. So yes, the editorials may be slanted, but that's what they're supposed to be. But I wouldn't say the news pages are.

PCM: What do you mean by whiney headline? Are you reading something into it. Just curious. And are you suggesting that the guys at the Herald who work the night shift and who lay out the stories on front page placed the stories above the fold and below the fold due to some kind of agenda? Again just curious.

Im not a big Phil Harmeson fan all the time. But, the guy knows the NCAA, NCC and WCHA inside and out. He could run any consulting firm in the country on NCAA and reclassification issues. And he's got a law degree to boot. There's one. Paul LeBel, also on the UND task force, is dean of the Law School and a national export on tort law and reform. I'm sure he's done a bit of consulting in his day. So there's an able-body lieutenant to Harmeson for ya. I could probably go down the list and find others on the Task Force who know a thing or two about what they're studying. Just my two pennies. Bye

Must be a glass-half-full mentality.... which is fine. UND has tended to be a bit more pragmatic in its approach.

I talked to the Herald reporter. He said that the newspaper did an open records request from UND recently and discovered a letter from the NCAA staff review committee dated Dec. 9 that recommended the NCAA uphold the restrictions on UND. Then, the Heraldo found the 35-page rebuttal from UND dated Dec. 23. All of these actions and letters were completed after UND submitted its second appeal to the NCAA. It's all info that had never been reported before. The rebuttal from UND is the new information Harmeson and Franklin are referring to, I guess.

Seriously... you guys think about this stuff way too much. Lace up some skates, hit the pond, if they're frozen yet down in the Forks. Just do something. Concerned in Canada