Irish

We seriously need to figure out how to seal the deal with top talent. This is more than a one off - it is a trend lately. Not sure what is happening but we need to out-recruit our rivals and get off the darn portal.

Very few Grand Forks fans have converted to Bison fans. However, go out a bit to the small towns and it is stunning. What used to be a great rivalry for many towns with about a 50-50 split of fans is now about 90-10 Bison. The main factor in my opinion is the lack of demand for excellence from the administration and AD department. We are 85-79 for the last 15 years and have extended the current coach after a 5-6 year. Bubba was 22-21 at Duluth and coming off a 4-6 season when we hired him. In addition, the one shot we had at beating the Bison was pissed away by the most bizarre coaching call I have seen. We seem content to just do more of the same. Expect the same results.

Some good points made here and some ideas for thought - Ira suggested more involvement and I think that is important. I also think that the people at UND are working hard although there are some areas for improvement. Would more funding help? Absolutely. But here's the bottom line - as long as we have a Football program where a 5-6 season gets the coach a contract extension in a non-contract year those at the very top are setting the bar pretty low. Six years of Muss at 31-34 and 9 years of Bubba at 54-45 doesn't exactly scream success. That's a long time wandering in the wilderness. The turnaround needs to start at the top. Muss had 4 more years after the Sioux Falls debacle. Change here is glacial.

I think if Bubba and Co. could have held on and beaten the Bison when they had a chance our trajectory would be different. And the current Bison run started when they let go Bob Babich who had a 46-22 record after one bad season (he had other seasons of 12-2, 9-2, and 9-3). Other criticisms of Babich was a poor playoff record and the fact we dominated him.

Gee - What do you think I should do about it - I am giving my max with Club membership and season tickets. I have been a fan for many years and am in regular attendance. I'm sure if I doubled my contribution I still would not get a seat at the table - let alone get a chance to express my views and then get "excused". I certainly would have no input in decisions like extending a 6-5 Bubba before his contract is up and likely to get no insight or explanation. As to gaining better insight into the challenges I am anxious to listen but the information from the Athletic Department is zip. Other than our need for Phase Two I have no idea what our expectations and plans are for our programs - We are now at a point where since 2016 our combined playoff win total from Football and Hockey is 2 - and one of the schools we beat is American International. The fact is that almost all of us except those with connections or a big checkbook are outside looking in. The demand for excellence needs to come from the Administration and Athletic Department. And I stand by my comments about indifferent Presidents and weak AD's - the jury is still out on Chaves but things need to improve.

I hear what you are saying but in my opinion the main problem is that there is not a demand for excellence in Football and now apparently in Hockey due to a succession of weak AD's and indifferent Presidents. We hope for excellence and try to achieve but programs are allowed to be mediocre to good but not great forever without significant changes. We have won a total of two playoff games collectively in Football and Hockey since 2016. This is far from where we need to be yet here we are doing the same things again this year.

This whole defensive disaster last year to retooling totally this year seems to be a player development issue. What's going on that we missed on so many players that other good teams want? Looking at the roster for next year we seem to have some real blanks where previous recruiting classes should be. If it wasn't for the portal we would be in deep doo doo. Are we identifying the talent we want and coaching them up in an orderly fashion. Doesn't look like it. We have a veteran staff and I am surprised that here we are. However, I am surprised that we can't recruit and develop good young goalies anymore too. Hopefully we are back on track.

I still can't quite understand how with the crapshow our defense was last year that the 3 players we lost in the portal went to National Champion Quinnipiac, Minnesota Duluth, and Ohio State. What am I missing?

So - Quinnipiac gets one of our former defensemen and we get one of theirs - opinions on how we came out in this swap?

It feels like we are slowly losing touch with some of the things that made us great. I loved the "speed kills" era.

Point taken - it also requires playing a full 60 minutes and working your system - including being responsible for where you are supposed to be (not just chasing the puck into the corner) - See Quinnipiac. However if you look at our returning roster this next year it tells you a lot about how recruiting has been going the last several seasons - Compare that to our two biggest rivals - Denver and Minny. When we are successful we have had a nice blend of high end talent and role players (and good goaltending). It is sad to see other teams have much more success with top talent. We need to get back in the mix. I'm not sure if our playing style hurts us but their is that theory.

This really emphasizes our need to get back in the mix for high-end young recruits - like our rivals BU, BC, Minny, and Michigan. We need to take this seriously and get off the portal for all of our needs. And right soon too.

Throw in the often predictable but very untimely penalties and you can see that the mental component of our game was a major weakness last year.

This is one of the most frustrating parts of the last season. So many "what the hell are you doing" moments. If we are going to emphasize culture then being hard to play against and being in the game mentally needs to be front and center. I think that's why "culture" is getting dragged so much on this board because a big part of it is being ready to play. We had a defense last year that so many times "just didn't get it". Perhaps a good thing they cleaned house and are starting over on that end. To me if you are going to emphasize culture then our team should have their heads in the game.

Agreed - but when it's a big emphasis and mentioned often and then things go sideways it is easy to point out - perhaps too easy in that there are many factors involved. Bottom line - we need to get back to recruiting great talent and having tournament success soon.

Agreed that the athletes individually play a big role in this - however, these were recruits who were chosen, checked on by talking to their coaches, interviewed, followed, and offered by a coach who emphasizes culture to come to UND. Even so do recruits sometimes don't pan out - homesick, can't work through adversity, poor chemistry, etc - absolutely. Should this happen to almost an entire group? Not in a program of our stature. Something went wrong here. Just look at our goalie recruitment to see what I mean. The good news is that we seem to have rebounded some through good use of the portal (although time will tell). The bad news is that this type of program building is unsustainable if we want to be on top. It's past time for us to win some top recruiting battles and build our roster with a good mix of talent in an orderly fashion. Agreed that Covid made things strange but still ....

You've seen this play before - see Football.

Totally agreed - but here's how things usually work around here - we will have a better season next year but not rise to the top - make the tournament but not go very far. Then after a couple of so-so years with some success but not in the Frozen Four there will be a lot of grumbling on this thread and we will again come to the consensus that "next year will be a critical year for the hockey staff".

Sounds harsh but a fairly accurate picture of where we are as a program (I know nothing about the trademark issue and don't care) - however, here we are after missing the tournament needing all new defensemen, a portal goalie for the third year, and having lost several recruits who didn't pan out or develop. Not even close to where a top team should be. Have we done pretty well in the portal - yes - however most of the top teams are open to maybe 1 or 2 portal transfers if they are top end and fit their program - they have orderly recruiting to fill their needs. So the competition for portal players is different. There is no doubt that we are not getting Blue Chippers like we used to and that our assessment and development of lower round draftees has been very poor. If in the start of the 2017 year you would have told me that we would miss the tournament 3 times by 2023, have one tournament win, and this is where we would start for 23-24 I would have called you a liar. Time to get our house in order. And the usual "support your program by giving more money" just doesn't apply here - we spend more on our hockey program than any other school in the country. And to see our rivals do well is just icing on this big pile.

You are correct - They did a nice job with portal additions - but we have to straighten out our regular recruiting - both with getting some high-end talent and with balancing classes so we have an orderly roster from year to year. No portal goalies for 3 years straight or having to replace our entire defense. Hopefully this will be fixed quickly. I can't believe how fast things went off the rails. Hopefully an anomaly fueled by covid and the rise of the portal. We can't just hit the portal every year while Blue Chippers flock to Minny, Michigan, Denver, and now probably Wisconsin.

Well something needs tweaking - perhaps closer to home.

Great questions - I think this is why this board is harping on this issue - no one knows what happened or how. We just are seeing the results. When I look at our program and its positives I am shocked that we are where we are - fishing for a portal goalie for the third year and having no returning defensemen. All while our rivals are grabbing blue chippers right and left. We need to turn this around soon but we fans don't really know what happened and have no idea what the coaches think or plan to do. If the theory that some of this is related to playing style is true then we'd best buckle up for a bumpy flight.

Exactly - third year in a row for a portal goalie doesn't exactly scream top recruiting. Also player development (or lack of same) - how many players this year had no improvement or actually went backwards in the off season? The clock is ticking for change - high end talent is flocking to Denver, Minny, and Michigan like trained pigs and here we are.

High end extremely disciplined Grindahs who played in a system that was a perfect fit for them and kept mistakes to a minimum.

Do they also understand that recruiting has gone off the rails - and are they taking steps to fix this? This type of roster management is not seen in any other top program - and if it continues we will not be among the top programs. Schloss is good at getting early scoops on signees - I wish he would ask a few hard questions about our recruiting. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but I can't understand why we can't sell our program to top talent.