iramurphy

Sorry but you leave out some important points. There is nothing about the Fighting Sioux name that the Native American people can't continue to celebrate and that includes continued use of the name and logo as they wish. There are a group of Native people who are fighting very hard to help keep the name but that number, over time, has not been overwhelming. The most important things UND does for Native Americans is the programming that UND offers and the help for Native American students that has been there for many years. I tutored Native American students in the mid 1970's as part of a program that was not available to all students. UND has reached out for many years to the reservation communities with outreach programs in many of the academic areas, especially medicine. One of our graduating seniors last year was offered a scholarhip worth almost 1/2 of his costs. He was less than a 3.0 student. He was offered this because he was an enrolled member of the White Earth reservation. There are a lot of things UND does for Native American students that are more important and have been there for many years before some of you folks were born. If you believe that we can't do anything for Native American students on and off of our campus without calling our athletic teams the Fighting Sioux then I would suggest reviewing all of the ooferings UND has. Tim O'Keefe doesn't owe an explanation, the NCAA does. If there are Native people who think losing our atheltic programs is in there best interest then they do not understand the effect intercollegiate athletics has on the University. I seriously doubt the majority would wish to harm UND athletics and that does include our hockey team. No one will tell Native American students or fans to "go away". How do you make such a stretch?? We will continue to provide some of the most comprehensive academic and counseling programs available to Native American students andwhere in the nation. That is a higher priority than a name at all costs.

You seem to miss the point that UND is not negotiating on equal footing with the NCAA. The NCAA holds all of the cards right now. It is there little fraternity and they make their won rules. UND's current management and the state legislature attempted other ways ( we passed legislation forcing UND to keep the name, after UND was trying to comply with the agreement, We asked for more time because the Standing Rock Tribal Council won't let their people decide on the issue. The clear answer was that state legislation is irrelevant to the NCAA and the agreement requires permission from both tribes. The one area we might get them to copromise on is the fact that we also didn't meet the deadline in order to keep the name without sanctions but even that might be wishful thinking. NDSU and University of Mary fans, who are the other state schhols with NCAA afiliation need to be wary of the state passing this into law. You don't want to find out too late that they are able to declare an entire state sanctioned for state laws whether that be the state flag or a state law invilving a minority group. That would be as big of a disaster for them as this is for us. I am not aware of any move on the part of the NCAA that they would consider this because I ahve no idea what they are up to. As a fan of intercollegiate atheltics in the state of N.Dak. I would make sure we vote this measure down. That won't keep us from reviving the name at a future date, but none of our schools can afford to have long term sanctions by the NCAA and we can't afford to take the chance.

UND has not made any promise to Ralph it didn't keep. Big Sky doesn't care about the name it cares about the sanctions UND faces so it would not be OK with that plan. The Ralph was set up for UND athletics for the future and does not depend on UND keeping the name. That would be safe. The rest of what makes UND athletics is not safe until we either get the name approved by the NCAA and the sanctions are lifted or we drop the name.

Nice comeback,. "whatever". You have no idea what or why Kelly is doing with this issue. You seem to need someone to blame and Kelly and the adminsitration are some of your targets. They could have done things differently along the way and probably could have done some things better but you take a lot of shots at guys when they can't defend themselves nor correct the inaccuracies you continue to blog. You can hide behind a blog and make claims as inaccurate as most of the rest of the stuff you post regarding UND. I am too old to be a tough guy and I would never waste my time threatening you or anyone else on a blog. Who said I didn't like you? Your comments entertain me and obviously others. Kinda like watching cartoons when I was a kid. We can laugh and don't have to think. Reminds me of Graham Cracker. That isn't you under a different name is it Cracker? Not like you? A guy with a fetish for pink colored sheep? I find you fascinating and get a kick out of your posts. When we blog goofy stuff we can't get our grundies in a bundle if people don't agree.

That is the opinion of small minded people who never competed in athletics (if in anything). Normal people can see the harm this will cause our hockey team and the University. Those of you who have no clue of what it takes to recruit kids, run the equipment room, provide medical coverage, get these kids to class etc. will continue to spew ignorant crap like this. This proves there are a few people out there who can cower behind a blog and throw insults at others and is small minded and self centered enough not to care about the women's hockey team, the students, the administration, and the other athletes. Turn off the Oprah channel long enough to watch the UND women's game and you will learn about what tradition is. That is the same tradition for UND hockey and other sports and no one talks about the Sioux name or logo because it is meaningless when you walk into the locker room or onto the ice, court or field of competition. Tradition is about the relationships, teammates, coaches and the experience. People with opinions such as this are meaningless to UND hockey and always will be. The conclusion and this thread are evidence you don't see the big picture. .

O'Keefe who wsa also a hockey player and certainly more of an insider than any of us on this board makes it clear. This is a problem for UND and UND hockey. UND hockey starts the transition to a new conference next year and things are not going as smoothly as we would like. At one time we hoped we might get some Hockey East schools and Notre Dame. Didn't happen. Hockey is too important at UND to lose any more ground than we have too. This is not hockey vs UND, or Vs FB , or vs all other sports. O'Keefe makes that pretty clear.

Moderators. Any thought to combing all 6 or 7 blogs into one? Seems that anything to do with the name, petitions, Big Sky, Kelly etc are basically the same subject.

No Fetch, you are for the Fighting Sioux name. There is nothing about that name that the hockey team needs and it is becoming more evident the threat to our hockey program is as real as the threat to the other programs. UND hockey will no survive as we know it without a stong University and a strong athletic department. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no concept of intercolligiate athletics and the importance of scheduling and the importance of the available academic programming and the college experience. Believe it or not these players interact with other students and University staff and fans. In the past many of them attended FB games, or baseball games or VB or WBB. take all of that away and it lessens the college experience. You my friend are a hockey fan, and a fan of the Fighting Sioux name but you are not a friend of UND hockey nor UND athletics.

But they don't get up for that game because of the name. The tradition of the program and those that have come before them but not the name.

You don't think he is doing that??? Kelly didn't put us in his mess. One mistake Kelly has made is to resume use of the name so soon. If he was told by the SBoHE then he had, to but I would have done nothing with the name until forced to. He and others are going to have to spend a lot of money and time to defeat this dumb-ass legislation. I worked for Clifford and visited with him years ago and again in the last few years prior to his death. Anyone who thinks Tom Clifford would be supporting the petition or legislation to force UND to keep the name didn't know the man. He was a UND guy. Most of us are UND guys. We are big hockey fans. We are also big BB, VB, swimming, baseball, track, fans. We want our aviation program to be the best in the country. We want our Engineering Dept. to thrive. We want new programming to thrive and we want great facilities for our students and faculty. That was more who Tom Clifford was. He would not have allowed Hakstol to send a dumb ass email without a very quick visit to his office and reprimand. He would have been working behind the scenes and with legislators, and students, and his colleagues at the AC to make sure this petition didn't get off the ground and if it did it would be defeated. There is nothing about this name right now that is good for UND. Everything people have been concerned about is coming to fruition. The Big Sky membership is in jeopardy. The future of our hockey schedules is screwed. Womens hockey is screwed for hosting playoffs. How much worse does anyone want this to get before they say we need to wise up. There may be something someone in the can come up with that may help but right now it is the litigation by Spirit Lake that holds any promise for the return of the name without hurting the school and without hurting hockey. Simple as that. Sixpack or Kolpack if that is you, your claim that the Big Sky is bluffing has no basis. Do we believe you or do we believe UND officials who have been working with the Big Sky and Fullerton himself. Ther eare people dumb enough to believe what you claim so they tell their friends about "scare tactics and this all being a bluff". Gotta be pretty stubborn or stupid or both not to see the wrtitning on the wall. We heard from these same characters that once the Governor, and legislators met with the NCAA they would change their stance. Not only did they not change their stance, they thumbed their noses at us. Anyone with any interest in UND and that includes UND hockey must oppose this for the sake of the University and the hockey program. Are we as a team and University better off with or without the name? Right now it appears we are much better off without the name and the evidence conitnues to build.

You have no basis for the claim about Minnesota. I sat next to Maturi at lunch and he said they will not play us because it is their school policy. Faison has spoken to the Wisconsin staff since Dickey's statement and therefore I believe you are wrong there too. If UND didn't have any other sports other than hockey this would hurt us. The name is not as important as the success of our teams. For those who think it is a Native American priority there are so many other ways to positively affect change on the reservations. The name could have been and should have been a bridge to many opportunities and was not used to the full extent it could have been but you don't need the name to make a difference. Every thing people want to do for Native Americans can be done without this name. It does nothing for UND athletics and in fact it is now causing harm and unless the NCAA pulls the sanctions, the harm will be massive.

Agree except that you should have stated "NDSU is the better team right now".

And that would be when we bring back the name. By the way you can flip you flag back upright for a while.

Agree

Dave or Jeff?? The fact that our two biggest rivals in hockey won't play us won't harm us??? If we get into the Big Sky we can deal with the issue of not hosting playoffs in other sports but it means we give up an advantage we earn. It is a bigger disadvantage to hockey because of the last line change rule for the home team. It would hurt our womens hockey and who knows what will happen in the future with the rules for men's tournaments. Losing Gophers and Badger games and anyone else who won't play us will be a factor for some when it comes time to recruit because recruits do look at schedules. They may wish to play in front of their home state fans. If we lose the name how would that ever hurt our ability to either compete or recruit?? Which is more important? Losing the name does nothing to harm UND athletics. NCAA sanctions certainly can.

Frank was never "Mr. Hockey" He was average on a good night. . His brother Mike was a better player. I also don't put much faith in a guy who tries to make himself a spokesperson for UND athletes or UND hockey players when I can't find his name on the list of donors published in this years hockey program. Wasn't he an airline pilot?? Should have been able to contribute something in return for his education and hockey experience. Frank came on just as there was a resurgence in UND hockey. Until then you could walk up to the Arena and get in with your student ID and there were plenty of empty seats. There were a lot of FB guys supporting the hockey team in those days and the FB staff lobbied Clifford on Gino's behalf when Miller was not going to hire him. Those guys seem to forget who had their back then. UND hockey is a great program with a great tradition. If the Frank Burgraffs are the guys who will be point men for UND hockey we are in trouble. Hockey hasn't always been and will not always be the top sport at UND. Hopefull it will be very difficult for another sport to regain that spot cuz that means hockey is still doing well. The change in hockey leagues and the statement from Wisconsin and Minnesota does not bode well for our future. We have more empty seats this year at the Ralph than I have seen since it opened. UND hockey needs to stay focused on what is important for UND hockey and that is not this name. If the name comes back , embrace it but don't crap on those who were there for you when you needed every fan and supporter you could get. The rest of UND and UND athletics were there for hockey. They need to be there for UND and UND athletics. The impact of Ralph's gifts have been tremendous but the other schools have made inroads. Those of you who have turned this into a hockey vs everyone else are not doing hockey or UND any favors.

You can do that as long as you would like. Doesn't matter what UND, the legislature or the NCAA decides. Don't even need to go to an athletic event. In fact, if the name is that important you could even do some volunteer work in your community to help Native American families or children. Trust me, that will be more rewarding and certainly more productive than yelling words.

Baseball has had a couple of very good recruiting years in a row and it will be interesting to see how they develop. Drop baseball?? Heck no we need to step up our support. Can be fun with a few beers and warm sun in late April or May to heckle some umps and spit seeds.

UND needs to be preparing for this possibility. We saw what happened when we weren't ready to move to D1AA in the 1970's and what happened when we weren't ready to move when the AC and SDSU moved before we did. The AC needs to do the same and in fact I think the AC, SDSU, and USD need to keep an eye on the Big Sky. UND will need to forget the past crap and help them make the move if and when the opportunity arises. If Wyoming can play in the WAC UND and the AC can. Just need to pick up the pace and start engaging with the Billionare Alumni. Look what Ralph did for UND. We have a couple more alumni with those resources. Gotta start thinking outside the box and rather than find excuses not to move we need to look for opportunites. We can always say no, but we can't miss opportunites becasue we aren't thinking ahead and lack of preparation means it won't happen.

if one reads Ralph's letter it is clear he held up contstruction at one time to make sure the logo's were OK. I read this as he didn't want to spend time and money if it wasn't going to be approved for the arena. Once he was given permission he moved ahead and his threat to Kupchella was after he had continued with the logo as part of the arena, Kupchella started waffling. It was the fact that Ralph couldn't seem to get a consistent direction from Kuppy that led to his frustration. There is not, nor was there ever, a requirement for UND to keep the name and logo in order for the arena to go to UND after the 20 years. Ralph also says in his letter, the arena is for UND hockey and the UND athletic department. Some mistakenly believe Ralph was completely focused on UND hockey. This letter from Ralph says otherwise. I was in the meeting room in the old Hyslop the day he made the announcement he was donating $100,000,000 to UND. Eddie Balfour was there with the Stanley Cup. Clifford, Strinden and a number of UND hockey staff and alumni were there. It was clear Ralph's gift was to build the finest hockey arena in the world and it was to benefit the hockey team and UND athletics and the University. Initial estimates were an arena costing around $50,000,000 and the rest to UND for priority needs. Fetch you make reference in one of your goofy comments that UND doesn't deserve Ralph's gift. You don't have to earn a gift, it was given freely by Ralph without strings attached regarding the name and his letter and the contract bear that out. No one deserves someone elses $100,000,000. UND was quite fortunate. With regards to your other comment that UND should drop hockey and an AHL team should move into the arena is a comment that lends the readers to understand the depth and knowledge involved in your opinions. If they still don't understand then they could reference the pink lamb you have seemed to have grown attached to. There is no hockey other than the NHL that will draw and create the atmosphere we get with UND hockey. You and your pink girlfriend in her wool jacket would be able to sit almost anywhere in that arena with a few hundred others who may have a passion for the game no matter who plays or what level but it wouldn't be 11,000 per game. Lastly, with regards to Kelly's comments, he follows direction from his bosses. He did that when it was time to retire the name and he does now. He isn't a cheerleader and he isn't going to be. Last spring he was wearing Sioux logo gear, yet some of you have tossed him under the bus and criticized him for the agreement reached before he arrived.

I'll buy ribs and beer but you pay for the psychiatrist and leave the friggin lamb in the truck with Dave K.

That would not have any effect on the issue other than it would give us solid evidence that people ( we can assume most would be Native, but we wouldn't have proof) living in those areas supported the name. It would be irrelevant legally but Fetch might take his pink sheep out to Famous Dave K's for Ribs and drinks to celebrate.

You and I may agree and everything I read about Native culture would seem to make this a correct statement but unfortunately, the NCAA isn't buying that. Unfortunately, not all elders agree with us either. The petition does nothing to help our cause with the NCAA and they have made that clear. So far our legislature and Governor have been unable to convince them otherwise. What the petition does is create potential problems for UND and UND athletics. There should be no legislation to force UND to do anything with the name unless we have assurances it won't hurt scheduling nor our entry into the Big Sky. Anyone who does not see the real potential for problems that exists for the entry to the Big Sky and the fact that we have NCAA sanctions outlined and the real promise they will go into effect are fools. I would hope the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to the Big Sky but with Fullerton has raised this issue as a potential stumbling block and I am afraid this could lead to a very expensive and costly mistake. Reminds me of the British Officer in the "Bridge Over the River Kwai" when he realized his zeal for all that was British that led him to build the bridge and then he almost prevented the allied special ops guys from blowing it up. His comment was "my God what have I done?". I couldn't find the Minot attorney nor even Frank Burgraff's names amoung the many donors listed in the hockey program. Their legacy won't be that they contributed what they could to the athletic programs, it will be they gathered 16,000 signatures in order to screw a dead horse. What will be left is a dead horse and I am afraid it will stink, but we will get to call it whatever we wish. The key to the name is with the litigation from the Spirit Lake tribe or Standing Rock, not in this same flawed legislation that has already failed.

That is an insult to those who suffered under the Nazi's. Go visit one of the concentration camps and then tell me if you equate this to what the Nazi's did. The mixed message we have received from Native Americans over the years is why the Peace Pipe ceremony hasn't carried the weight that some of us wish it had. Take that up with the Tribal Council at Standing Rock. It would have been very easy for them to give it credibility. The council claims the ceremony had no binding authority and was unofficial. Because it was done by tribal elders I thought it might stand but their elected officials say otherwise. None of those folks seem to care what you and I think though. Dave, your goofy comments lead me to believe you have always been an observer and not a participant. You seem to believe that calling UND athletic teams by one name is so important that you would actually discontinue athletics at UND if we lose the name. The tradidtion of UND athletics just like the traditions or the Native American people themselves is not the name but the ceremonies, the history and the people and the trials and tribulations they have gone through for thousands of years in the case of our Native brethren and for over a hundred years in the case of the University of North Dakota, Whether they are called Sioux or Lakota or whatever name one chooses does not cancel out their traditions and history. Same goes for Fighting Sioux athletics which has had a proud tradition of excellence and success long before were were called the Fighting Sioux. No one team owns this name anymore than any other including women's hockey. They are already developing their own traditions. I don't think some folks understand the what is important with these traditions and history. That is why we agree and will continue to do so. I want to win and be successful and I want that for our athletes and athletic teams. You want to keep a name. Simple as that. I don't believe those of us who are here now have the right to jeopardize the proud tradition of UND athletics and what those who have come before us did to make all of this possible on behalf of a name. By the way, I would almost be willing to pay to see if you and Fetch really exist. My fear would be Fetch would bring his pink sheep and the two of you would get in a fight over who would get to take her home.