Midwestern Hawk

Hopefully this is a very short thread.

Contrast out clock management at Mo St to the USD clock management in Vermillion: North Dakota 13-20 South Dakota South Dakota at 05:52 South Dakota at 05:52 1st and 10 at USD25 SOUTH DAKOTA drive start at 05:52. 1st and 10 at USD25 Clock 05:52, Theis,Travis rush for 22 yards to the USD47, 1ST DOWN USD (Holm, Evan). 1st and 10 at USD47 Clock 05:12, Theis,Travis rush for 1 yard to the USD48 (Pierre, Chandon). 2nd and 9 at USD48 Clock 04:23, Theis,Travis rush for 10 yards to the UND42, 1ST DOWN USD (Larson, Noah;Holm, Evan). 1st and 10 at UND42 Clock 03:43, Theis,Travis rush for 8 yards to the UND34 (Galvin, Hayden;Holm, Evan). 2nd and 2 at UND34 Clock 03:00, Theis,Travis rush for 1 yard to the UND33 (Krzanowski, Dev;McNaboe, Ben). 3rd and 1 at UND33 Clock 02:11, Theis,Travis rush for 2 yards to the UND31, 1ST DOWN USD (Larson, Noah;McNaboe, Ben). 1st and 10 at UND31 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND33. 2nd and 12 at UND33 TEAM rush for loss of 3 yards to the UND36, PENALTY UND unsportsmanlike conduct 15 yards to the UND21, 1ST DOWN USD. 1st and 10 at UND21 1st and 10. 1st and 10 at UND21 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND23. 2nd and 12 at UND23 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND25. 3rd and 14 at UND25 End of game, clock 00:00. 10 plays consumed 5:52. Nielsen would have run out the clock at Mo St and gone home with a win. Before swtich ing to victory formation and taking a knee, USD consumed 4 minutes in 5 plays. Football Clock Management 101

Agree on the NO PASSES comment. That was Mo ST first TO. On the 6 plays we ran pre-TO, we averaged 27 seconds per play(6 plays 2:44 elapsed = 164 seconds = 27.3. Couldn't we, in theory, have run off 39 seconds per play(and that does NOT take into account the actual time consumed by the play)? If so, the after 6 plays, there is only 39 seconds left in the game instead of 1:49 or MoSt has to burn all its timeouts. Is my math correct?

Yep. Bubba and the staff has done many great things, but we are chasing the greatest dynasty in the history of college football and we will NEVER have a good enough roster to compensate for the continuous game management/ clock management mistakes. I went back through the MSU game, someone tell me where I am wrong. 40 second play clock in college football correct? We run the "dipsy doodle" reverse pass play on 4th and 2 at the MSU 29 with a 28-17 lead and MSU takes over with 6:36 to go. They score 6 plays and 2:03 later to make it 28-24 UND. UND takes over with 4:33 to go. Here is what transpires: North Dakota 28-25 Missouri St. North Dakota at 04:33 North Dakota at 04:33 1st and 10 at UND25 NORTH DAKOTA drive start at 04:33. 1st and 10 at UND25 Weah, Otis rush over left end for 34 yards to the MSU41, 1ST DOWN UND (Braswell,Montra). 1st and 10 at MSU41 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 4 yards to the MSU37 (Stewart,Jaylen). 2nd and 6 at MSU37 Smith, Isaiah rush over right end for 4 yards to the MSU33 (Joe,Lemondre). 3rd and 2 at MSU33 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 1 yard to the MSU32 (Manuleleua,Ferr;McDonald,Kyriq). 4th and 1 at MSU32 Vaughn, Quincy rush up middle for 5 yards to the MSU27, 1ST DOWN UND (Williams,Jalen;Goree,Devin). 1st and 10 at MSU27 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 4 yards to the MSU23 (Johnson,Eric;Ellis,Kevin). 2nd and 6 at MSU23 Timeout Missouri St., clock 01:49. 2nd and 6 at MSU23 Weah, Otis rush over right end for loss of 2 yards to the MSU25, fumble forced by Young,Von, fumble by Weah, Otis recovered by MSU Johnson,Eric at MSU24. At even 35 seconds per play shouldn't the clock have been under a minute to go when Otis fumbled? Their game winning drive took 8 plays and 1:24. What am I missing here?

The NCAA also does NOT want a final 8 composed of 4 MVFC teams, nor a final 4 composed of 3.

The roster can always improve, but overall, this was a damn good team. IMO we did NOT play an FCS team this fall which had a superior roster from top to bottom, and that includes the nemesis to our south. Were teams better at some positions, absolutely, but that will likely always be the case, as it was for NDSU this fall. Was there an FCS team this fall, where a UND win would be considered lucky or a fluke? My answer is no. I felt JMU was the only team we played in the spring with a real roster advantage over us, the NDSU game we just "!@#$ the bed", which ties right back to the coaches.

Nope. Just the MSU football highlights, which is not the greatest angle. Just gave the freaking game away.

I'm not a proponent of wholesale personnel changes and would rather build from the ground up. My larger point was how important coaching is in football. UND beat itself when playing Petrino team @MSU this fall. Pretty difficult to agrue with Petrino record over time. If Petrino was coaching this team we would be posting on the first round playoff thread instead of "could haves" and "should haves". Pretty hard to argue that. I'm tired of waiting for Bubba and co to get "over the hump". After this fall, the success of the spring is looking more and more like a fluke and/or a mirage.

You are likely correct about the committee. Feels like UND snatched "disappointment" this season with one of its best, deepest teams ever. Will take me quite awhile to get over the "no timeout" vs NDSU. That play changed the trajectory of the team and program we all love.

Its not all coaching, but in football coaching is by far the most important element. A very recent MVFC example: 2015 Missouri State 1–10 0–8 10th 2016 Missouri State 4–7 2–6 T–8th 2017 Missouri State 3–8 2–6 T–8th 2018 Missouri State 4–7 2–6 9th 2019 Missouri State 1–10 1–7 T–9th 2020/Spring 2021 Missouri State 5–4 5–1 T–1st 2021: 8-3 and 6-2 Now ask yourself what changed after the 2019 season?

Looks like richter was not expecting the ball, which makes no sense. Not a bad throw, just a really bad play. Are you happy now?

I’ve said it before and it’s a very extreme example, but if nick Saban and his staff coached this team from Jan 1 of 2020 it would be at a minimum 10-1 at the moment, MVFC champs and a top seed In the tournament . Again an extreme example with maybe the best college HC who has ever coached, but in football coaching is incredibly important. Look at MSU. Perennial doormat, Petrino shows up and boom! Playoffs every season.

I see players looking a bit confused after the sack, not all by some. We used 39 seconds on a first down sack and when we finally got down to running the next play, the receiver did not appear to be on the same page as his QB. the NDSU, MSU and SDSU losses are all directly blamed on our game management/time management. For the record, I love Bubba and the staff, but if they take an objective look back at the season they blew some games.

The same staff that choked against NDSU and failed to call TO when they didn’t take our bait on the punt, was calmly telling Tommy to take his time after the sack? Really?

And if the pass is incomplete, it’s 3rd and 18 from the 31 with ~ 42 seconds left. Still have two timeouts, but the clock gets to be a factor.

Now we are supposed to believe that they were worried about leaving sdsu too much time. It’s was 2nd and 18 at the 31 with less than a minute to go. Now I’ve heard everything. Some in here will defend absolutely any moronic thing we do.

Your serious? Do you know anything about clock management? Some huddle some don’t, it’s disorganized and obviously by richter route not everyone was on the same page. With 1:30 we burned 39 seconds on one play . That’s as bad as it gets. Refresh my memory how did it work out for us? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Maybe we can use the two timeouts next season.

Totally agree, but I agree with Sioux 94, richter makes the cut and slows down like either he doesn’t expect the ball or there is miscommunication on the route between he and Tommy. It’s near the end. Not ESPN view. https://youtu.be/ucjPYFzcTA8

Very well could have . It looks as though Richter is not expecting the ball, which again leads me back to taking a timeout. During timeout discuss situation with everyone and what happens after completion short of first down, completion out of bounds, or incompletion and if it’s third and what next play is in each scenario.

There is so much more to our lack of deep throwing game than just someone who is a “burner”. Double moves, overloading a zone with high low, rub routes, lots of ways to create space. not sure sdsu had anyone who would be considered a “burner”, yet they took several deeper shot including one throw where their qb threw the ball 55 yards in the air.

42 seconds is not much time with a third down and short. If the pass is incomplete, it’s 3rd and 18 with 42 seconds left and we are at the 31. It was absolutely horrible clock management. Go back and watch the plays again . Total disarray after the sack.

I don't know this for a fact, but I have watched Tommy closely this season and I have NOT seen him change a play at the line nor call a timeout on the field. If someone has a specific instance of either scenario, please let me know which game and I would love to see what I missed. I can't think of an instance this season where UND called a TO from the field on O or D.

You may have the inside scoop on what the protocol is on the team, but I doubt very much it is standard for Tommy to call a TO in that situation. I don't remember Tommy calling a TO on his own all year.

The sack play wasted almost half of the remaining time. the situation went from 1st and 10 with plenty of time to 2nd and 18 and a rush. There is no question a timeout should have been used after the sack. Even if the pass is completed we are down to around 42 seconds left with 12 yards to go and a likely third and short.

It wasn’t our first rodeo this fall with pathetic clock management at the end of the half….