Does the NCAA know about this?

[petey23]

Sweet Sioux Tomahawk:

The trophy awarded to the winner of Illinois and Northwestern's annual football game originally was not a tomahawk, it was an actual wooden Indian named "Sweet Sioux." The original Sweet Sioux trophy was introduced in 1945 after the staff members of the two schools student newspapers came up with the idea for it. But in September, 1946, "Sweet Sioux" was stolen at a showcase at Northwestern. In 1947, a Tomahawk Trophy was brought in to replace the wooden Indian and has been used ever since. The original "Sweet Sioux" trophy was created in 1948, but was retired due to its size. Illinois last claimed the tomahawk when they beat the Wildcats 31-24 in Evanston on Nov. 23, 2002. Illinois currently holds a 31-26-2 edge over the Wildcats in games played for the Sweet Sioux Tomahawk.

[Tommiejo]

Sweet Sioux Tomahawk:

The trophy awarded to the winner of Illinois and Northwestern's annual football game originally was not a tomahawk, it was an actual wooden Indian named "Sweet Sioux." The original Sweet Sioux trophy was introduced in 1945 after the staff members of the two schools student newspapers came up with the idea for it. But in September, 1946, "Sweet Sioux" was stolen at a showcase at Northwestern. In 1947, a Tomahawk Trophy was brought in to replace the wooden Indian and has been used ever since. The original "Sweet Sioux" trophy was created in 1948, but was retired due to its size. Illinois last claimed the tomahawk when they beat the Wildcats 31-24 in Evanston on Nov. 23, 2002. Illinois currently holds a 31-26-2 edge over the Wildcats in games played for the Sweet Sioux Tomahawk.

IF IF YOU ASK ME IF THE NC$$ KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT, "THAT WOULD BE A FIRST" ALTOGETHER.

SIOUX FAN (HOCKEY) SINCE 1973.

[SiouxMD]

Speaking of trophy games...I doubt we will ever see another Nickel Trophy game. When UND retires the "Fighting Sioux" nickname the Nickel Trophy will become obsolete if not "hostile and abusive".

I suppose we can put it in the closet next to the Sitting Bull Trophy.

[nodakvindy]

I kind of like the idea of retiring the Nickel. Let's donate it to the Heritage Center or the State Museum in Pembina.

In the same vein, and in keeping with the increased costs of playing at DI and inflation, how about playing for the Quarter. It could be a mockup of the ND state quarter. The only downside as that the quarter design also have a Bison on it, but I'd be willing to live with that.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Sweet Sioux Tomahawk:

I certainly wasn't going to bring this up: we've got more than our share of knee-jerk liberal nutcases in Champaign, we have no need for more of those jokers to make (literally) a federal case out of nothing. Unfortunately, ESPN fixated on it Saturday. They must have shown it about half a dozen times. I really don't remember them ever showing the other trophies we play for. Thanks guys. I cringed every time they had it on TV.

But if you think the usual whiners would kick up a fuss about the present trophy, imagine what would happen if we used had the original??

[Goon]

I think you mean PC nutcases, not liberal nutcases. Although PC nutcases are generally liberal in their political views, they represent only a small fraction of all liberals. To use the term liberals when referring to these kind of people is every bit as insulting as using the term conservatives when referring to the KKK. It's misleading and offensive to those of us who are both liberal and at the same time anti-PC. That isn't intended as an attack on you, Chief Illiniwek, but rather a request to please reconsider your choice of words. I get your point, I just think the way you delivered it could give people the wrong idea. I'm very liberal as are the majority of the people that I consider friends, yet all of us detest the PC zealots who support the cause to change the nickname at UND.

I am pretty sure that he said Liberal.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I certainly wasn't going to bring this up: we've got more than our share of knee-jerk liberal nutcases in Champaign...

I think you mean PC nutcases, not liberal nutcases. Although PC nutcases are generally liberal in their political views, they represent only a small fraction of all liberals.

I understand what you're saying from a political semantics point of view, but the more I thought about this the more I started to consider what this is saying from the old Venn Diagram viewpoint. So, is it possible to be a knee-jerk liberal and yet NOT be a PC zealot? The fact that you react without thinking to PC issues and side with the more liberal point of view-doesn't that make someone a knee-jerk liberal?

I'll have to consider my answer to that question for a while. But in the meantime, thanks for providing a thought-provoking theoretical question. Certainly made me think twice, or even more than twice.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Hmmm... what exactly is a knee-jerk liberal and how are they different from regular liberals? If there are knee-jerk liberals then surely there must also be knee-jerk conservatives, right?

Absolutely, 100% agreement that there are knee-jerk reactors at the polar extremes of the political spectrum on both sides.

Living in Chicago, we have plenty of people who will go into the voting booth on election day and pull that lever for the full party vote. Those are the people who I put into that "knee-jerk" catagory. And of course, there are people who live their lives 365 days a year following either a liberal or conservative way of life without thinking.

How are they different? Some people will at least listen to discussions about issues and consider different viewpoints. Others will give you the "ah, you can't be reasoned with" walkaway reaction. I find the second group totally silly.

Taking it back to the political spectrum, somewhere you have to decide the point of separation between the conservative and liberals. The closer someone is to the center, the less I put them into a "knee jerk" catagory.

[Chewey]

Hmmm... what exactly is a knee-jerk liberal and how are they different from regular liberals? If there are knee-jerk liberals then surely there must also be knee-jerk conservatives, right?

I agree with you DaveK. Although I am not a liberal, I have several friends who are and they too are pieved at the PC faction that find the Sioux nickname "offensive." While I'm more of a conservative/independent (given the failings of the Bush Presidency and the corruption of the Republican Party generally), I agree that not all liberals should be considered "knee-jerk" just like all conservatives should not be so labeled. The use of such terms only stifles legitimate debate from the get go. I'm sure I've done the same thing as the Chief at times so, personally, I'm going to be more vigilant about it. The Chief seems to be a pretty conscientious and articulate fellow so I'm sure a better way will be found.

[larsensa]

Hmmm... what exactly is a knee-jerk liberal and how are they different from regular liberals? If there are knee-jerk liberals then surely there must also be knee-jerk conservatives, right?

Before tagging conservatives with the KKK reference you may want to remember that the longest serving member of the Democratic party, Mr. Robert Byrd, was voted Exalted Cyclops of his KKK chapter back in the day. Exalted Cyclops is the leader of the chapter in case you don't look at the wiki entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...conscientious and articulate...

Thank you for the kind words.

I strive to be fair-minded and open-minded. But I cannot lie and tell you that this subject isn't close to my heart. I really admired the passion of the fans here (as well as the passion of your President and other administrators) after seeing my own school surrender without a fight. I know I know I can react vehemently and far too quickly at times. Too much passion can lead to foolish words, and I hope I am big enough to come back the next day and admit that I spoke too soon in those instances.

Okay, since we're already far off the track as far as the original purpose of this thread... one more thing came to mind about people and what makes someone an extremist. It occurs to me that we've all seen people who aren't talking about the issues, or even the politicans: but instead they're spending most of his/her time standing on the streetcorner, screaming at the top of their lungs about the guy who's on the OTHER streetcorner expounding the 100% different political viewpoint-those people on the soapboxes are the ones who really personify the term "knee-jerk" conservative or liberal.

And someone here mentioned something about why they're voting one way or another these days. Isn't it a very sad commentary when almost everyone you hear is pretty much saying "well, my guy isn't perfect but I couldn't see my way clear to vote for that other guy?" That's Illinois politics at its finest. Many commentators here have said how little difference there is between the Republicans and Democrats on the state level. "Ruling Cabal" is the term one guy uses over and over. He raises the point that the a unifying theme of all of the presidential committees on both sides is that they all want the current Federal Prosocuter out of office under the next president. He's doing his job just a little too well.

[Goon]

And someone here mentioned something about why they're voting one way or another these days. Isn't it a very sad commentary when almost everyone you hear is pretty much saying "well, my guy isn't perfect but I couldn't see my way clear to vote for that other guy?" That's Illinois politics at its finest. Many commentators here have said how little difference there is between the Republicans and Democrats on the state level. "Ruling Cabal" is the term one guy uses over and over. He raises the point that the a unifying theme of all of the presidential committees on both sides is that they all want the current Federal Prosocuter out of office under the next president. He's doing his job just a little too well.

Politics in America have gotten to be really pathetic. I can see the next presidential election in litigation up to the swearing in of the next president however the supreme courts deem is the winner.

[Goon]

Before tagging conservatives with the KKK reference you may want to remember that the longest serving member of the Democratic party, Mr. Robert Byrd, was voted Exalted Cyclops of his KKK chapter back in the day. Exalted Cyclops is the leader of the chapter in case you don't look at the wiki entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd

Yep, he is a democrat and it is funny to listen to the dems defend him.

[MafiaMan]

Yep, he is a democrat and it is funny to listen to the dems defend him.

Only proved by the point that he wasn't asked to resign or at least censured in the Senate for the "white n***ers comment he made a few years ago. In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to find a good liberal who even knows he made the comments. Had Mr. Byrd been a Republican, it would have been the headline story on CNN for weeks.

And before DaveK wants to start tagging all Republicans as corrupt, I find it amusing that Dems continue to ignore a certain representative from Louisiana and his freezer full of money disguised as hamburger. Oh, that's right, let's let the system take its course.