Goophs vs Bison ?

[Bison06]

Yes. I would like to see NCAA hockey grow.

Fair enough, I am with WYO and would rather see us spend money in other areas. I grew up in a town that was horrible at hockey and have never been a fan of the sport.

[SiouxMeNow]

ndsu has always pissed on hockey as a sport so I think with Blaiser in place and the new arena coming up...we can ALL be comfortable with Fargo being a minor league feeder for UND Hockey!

I want to be the first to say...THANKS to our neighbors down south for all the future Division I banners you will add to the Ralph!!

[SiouxMeNow]

(has this thread gone off topic yet? )

[WYOBISONMAN]

(has this thread gone off topic yet? )

Just a bit.......

[westsidebison]

A couple things.

#1. I think the Sioux would give the Gophers a good game though I think the Gophers would win. In a few years with better depth who knows?

#2. The Sioux have a great team with some very explosive players and a Bison/Sioux game will always be a great game but I think the Bison are better team top to bottom therefore giving the Bison an edge.

#3. I also think the Sioux will have a successfull transition. But what the Bison have done is remarkable, especially in Mens bball. I hope for UND's sake that they don't use NDSU's transition as a measuring stick for their own.

#4. I have to say that at this time I would really prefer that NDSU isn't thinking about hockey. I don't think it's in our best interest right now. Basketball is where our resouces need to be right now!!

[gabe01]

A lot of you do feel that way, but there are many others who would welcome with open arms a D1 hockey program in Fargo. Don't you think it's a little disturbing that there are a number of Bison football fans who also support Sioux hockey? NDSU is the most high profile school located in what is considered hockey territory not to have a D1 hockey program. It's a huge void in their athletic department. USC and Texas not having D1 hockey is understandable considering where they are located geographically. NDSU not having D1 hockey is a disgrace considering where they are located geographically.

People that love hockey love hockey and are fanatics. That's cool. I'm just not a fan of the sport. I couldn't name a more than 2 players on the Wild and I don't care to learn about them. I put hockey in the same category as soccer.... I don't have an opinion and I don't care. Actually, when the Wild were in the Playoffs a few years ago I checked the scores but didn't actually watch the games. If NDSU got hockey I wouldn't care

[star2city]

People that love hockey love hockey and are fanatics. That's cool. I'm just not a fan of the sport. I couldn't name a more than 2 players on the Wild and I don't care to learn about them. I put hockey in the same category as soccer.... I don't have an opinion and I don't care. Actually, when the Wild were in the Playoffs a few years ago I checked the scores but didn't actually watch the games. If NDSU got hockey I wouldn't care

You say wouldn't care, yet you probably check the scores of all NDSU teams: women's soccer, women's volleyball, wrestling, baseball, softball, etc. Those sports aren't even "events" at NDSU. Hockey would be an "event" and would have a "buzz". Most NDSU fans would have an interest in how NDSU hockey performed, even if they don't even "like" hockey, just because it would have an "NDSU" label.

[gabe01]

You say wouldn't care, yet you probably check the scores of all NDSU teams: women's soccer, women's volleyball, wrestling, baseball, softball, etc. Those sports aren't even "events" at NDSU. Hockey would be an "event" and would have a "buzz". Most NDSU fans would have an interest in how NDSU hockey performed, even if they don't even "like" hockey, just because it would have an "NDSU" label.

The only sports I pay attention to are football and basketball. I have checked the scores of baseball. Wrestling is 2 guys in tights rolling around on a mat. If volleyball and softball were to be gone I wouldn't care and I didn't even know that softball is a college sport. I have never once checked the scores of these sports and if they were to win the national title I really wouldn't care. Same goes with track and all the other bogus sports. Hockey, in my level of interest, is below baseball and higher than wrestling, softball, volleyball, and track. I've probably paid more attention to Sioux Hockey than NDSU baseball but that's pretty easy considering I only check the scores of baseball and the SIoux Hockey team gets on ESPN when the playoffs come around.

[LB#11]

The only sports I pay attention to are football and basketball. I have checked the scores of baseball. Wrestling is 2 guys in tights rolling around on a mat. If volleyball and softball were to be gone I wouldn't care and I didn't even know that softball is a college sport. I have never once checked the scores of these sports and if they were to win the national title I really wouldn't care. Same goes with track and all the other bogus sports. Hockey, in my level of interest, is below baseball and higher than wrestling, softball, volleyball, and track. I've probably paid more attention to Sioux Hockey than NDSU baseball but that's pretty easy considering I only check the scores of baseball and the SIoux Hockey team gets on ESPN when the playoffs come around.

Gabe01...since you probably don't know this, the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux hockey team is ranked #1 in the Nation in Division 1 hockey.

[sultan]

I just thought of something that would be sort of neat. If Grand Valley would some how lose a game the Sioux would more than likely be ranked number one in football. The women's basketball team easily could be ranked number one when polls start. The hockey team is currently ranked number one in D-I. Wouldn't that be something to have three major sports ranked number one in the nation at the same time. Would somebody please knock off Grand Valley.

[skateshattrick]

A couple things.

#1. I think the Sioux would give the Gophers a good game though I think the Gophers would win. In a few years with better depth who knows?

#2. The Sioux have a great team with some very explosive players and a Bison/Sioux game will always be a great game but I think the Bison are better team top to bottom therefore giving the Bison an edge.

#3. I also think the Sioux will have a successfull transition. But what the Bison have done is remarkable, especially in Mens bball. I hope for UND's sake that they don't use NDSU's transition as a measuring stick for their own.

#4. I have to say that at this time I would really prefer that NDSU isn't thinking about hockey. I don't think it's in our best interest right now. Basketball is where our resouces need to be right now!!

Good post. Even as a Sioux fan, I don't disagree with most of what you said. However, as to No. 4, I'm not sure that you and other NDSU fans understand that D1 hockey and the strength of other sports such as basketball and football are not mutually exclusive. Hockey at UND operates in the black and funds many other sports. When UNO started D1 hockey about 10-15 years ago, its other sports were weak and poorly funded. Within 2 years, it was operating in the black to the tune of over $1M and helping to fund the other sports and made the FB and BB programs stronger. UND has not been hurt at all by hockey. In fact, it is the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg.

If you don't like hockey, that is your prerogative and I respect that. I personally don't like basketball very well and I would not be caught dead at a wrestling match. However, hockey will not hurt your athletic program. That is the myth that some coaches like Bucky Maughan like to spread because they feel threatened by another sport that may make their sport obscure. Hockey likely will have the opposite effect and add to the overall athletic budget. Do the math--if you can average even 6000 per game for 20 home games, that is 120,000. For 5 or 6 home football games, you would need to average 20,000+. UND averages over 11,000 for hockey so the figure would be much higher. Even a small D2 school like UNO averages over 8000 for hockey.

I personally don't want NDSU to get hockey because it would weaken UND's fan base. It is estimated that as much as 1/3 of the Sioux attendance is from outside Grand Forks, and that much of that is from Fargo-Moorhead. I personally don't mind making that trip because UND is one of the top programs in the country. However, I do believe that NDSU has and will continue to miss the boat on this issue. If water polo or equestrian brought revenue to UND's athletic budget, I would be in favor of it despite the fact that I don't care about those sports. I would even support wrestling if it ever made money.

[mksioux]

I'm not sure that you and other NDSU fans understand that D1 hockey and the strength of other sports such as basketball and football are not mutually exclusive. Hockey at UND operates in the black and funds many other sports. When UNO started D1 hockey about 10-15 years ago, its other sports were weak and poorly funded. Within 2 years, it was operating in the black to the tune of over $1M and helping to fund the other sports and made the FB and BB programs stronger. UND has not been hurt at all by hockey. In fact, it is the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg.

I think most people acknowledge that mens hockey makes money, especially among the top programs. But the problem lies with Title IX. Most schools can not add a mens hockey program without adding a womens program as well. I'm not a forensic accountant like so many nerds on this site, but my understanding is that womens hockey hemorrhages money. The assumption is that the womens team would lose more money than the mens team could make, making a startup college hockey program a net loss.

[skateshattrick]

I think most people acknowledge that mens hockey makes money, especially among the top programs. But the problem lies with Title IX. Most schools can not add a mens hockey program without adding a womens program as well. I'm not a forensic accountant like so many nerds on this site, but my understanding is that womens hockey hemorrhages money. The assumption is that the womens team would lose more money than the mens team could make, making a startup college hockey program a net loss.

That is a valid point, but I question that it would make it a net loss unless it is a school where men's hockey is not drawing at least 5000 per game. Maybe some of the forensic accountants know, but I doubt that UND, Minnesota, and the other WCHA powers are losing money overall. NDSU would really not have a problem drawing that many fans. It is a much larger market than SCSU or MSUM, and NDSU tends to have success in most athletic endeavors. That was also once true of women's BB, but is no longer true. Hopefully, women's hockey will eventually be at least a break even sport.

[star2city]

I think most people acknowledge that mens hockey makes money, especially among the top programs. But the problem lies with Title IX. Most schools can not add a mens hockey program without adding a womens program as well. I'm not a forensic accountant like so many nerds on this site, but my understanding is that womens hockey hemorrhages money. The assumption is that the womens team would lose more money than the mens team could make, making a startup college hockey program a net loss.

This has been discussed before, but a men's hockey program does not have to be paired with a women's hockey program to satisfy Title IX. DU has men's hockey and women's gymnastics, CC has men's hockey and women's soccer at DI, Mich/MichSt/NDame don't have women's hockey, Miami (O) uses its on-campus rink for men's hockey and varsity women's synchronized skating team, Wayne State dropped it's men's program, but not its women's, Syracuse added women's, but not men's (yet). NDSU, if it added men's hockey, would have no obligation to add women's hockey, but it would likely either have to drop another men's program or add an additional (probably much cheaper) women's sport.

[mksioux]

This has been discussed before, but a men's hockey program does not have to be paired with a women's hockey program to satisfy Title IX. DU has men's hockey and women's gymnastics, CC has men's hockey and women's soccer at DI, Mich/MichSt/NDame don't have women's hockey, Miami (O) uses its on-campus rink for men's hockey and varsity women's synchronized skating team, Wayne State dropped it's men's program, but not its women's, Syracuse added women's, but not men's (yet). NDSU, if it added men's hockey, would have no obligation to add women's hockey, but it would likely either have to drop another men's program or add an additional (probably much cheaper) women's sport.

I stand partially corrected. But I still think Title IX is the major reason college hockey is not expanding. If a university could simply add mens hockey without making any other cuts/additions, I think many more schools would.

[Sioux_Yeah_Yeah]

The only sports I pay attention to are football and basketball. I have checked the scores of baseball. Wrestling is 2 guys in tights rolling around on a mat. If volleyball and softball were to be gone I wouldn't care and I didn't even know that softball is a college sport. I have never once checked the scores of these sports and if they were to win the national title I really wouldn't care. Same goes with track and all the other bogus sports. Hockey, in my level of interest, is below baseball and higher than wrestling, softball, volleyball, and track. I've probably paid more attention to Sioux Hockey than NDSU baseball but that's pretty easy considering I only check the scores of baseball and the SIoux Hockey team gets on ESPN when the playoffs come around.

Wow... can you say ignorance?? Or closed-mindedness??

It's people who think like this that make me angry.... At least have some respect for these sports and the athletes that play them...

[NDSUguy]

Wow... can you say ignorance?? Or closed-mindedness??

It's people who think like this that make me angry.... At least have some respect for these sports and the athletes that play them...

I'm not much of a hockey guy.... If NDSU had a hockey team I would likely go to maybe 1 or 2 games a year. I think that NDSU could draw well but this would take time. With anything new there would be a buzz in the beginning and then after time (unless successful) the teams attendance would take a hit. Over time it is likely that hockey could be a revenue generator but I still wonder why it makes financial sense to fund a new sport that may or may not make money. NDSU would NEVER be admitted into the WCHA. NDSU would likely never be ranked nationally. NDSU would likely lose regularly to UND, Minnesota, etc in hockey. Since that is the case, why divert funds from sports that WILL draw big money/exposure (football, basketball) to a sport that will only be followed by a small percentage of the fans......

[skateshattrick]

I'm not much of a hockey guy.... If NDSU had a hockey team I would likely go to maybe 1 or 2 games a year. I think that NDSU could draw well but this would take time. With anything new there would be a buzz in the beginning and then after time (unless successful) the teams attendance would take a hit. Over time it is likely that hockey could be a revenue generator but I still wonder why it makes financial sense to fund a new sport that may or may not make money. NDSU would NEVER be admitted into the WCHA. NDSU would likely never be ranked nationally. NDSU would likely lose regularly to UND, Minnesota, etc in hockey. Since that is the case, why divert funds from sports that WILL draw big money/exposure (football, basketball) to a sport that will only be followed by a small percentage of the fans......

You are assuming that because you do not like hockey and would likely not go that there would not be support in Fargo. You could not be more wrong. Even though hockey does not get the support of the park district, it is huge in Fargo and even bigger in Moorhead. Moorhead has 4 sheets of indoor ice, 2 of which are privately owned and funded, and they are adding on. Fargo is building a 5 sheet indoor ice arena with private funds. If you ever go to a Moorhead Spuds game when they are playing a ranked team from Roseau, Warroad or Minneapolis, you would see 3000+ fans in standing room only crowds. If you ever drive on I-29 on Fridays or Saturdays, you would see how many Fargo-Moorhead-West Fargo fans make that trek. If you saw how many FM area people were at the game, you would know what I'm talking about. If you saw how many families from Moorhead, Fargo and West Fargo have sons or daughters playing hockey or have played hockey, you would know what I'm talking about. This is a huge hockey community and there is no question in my mind that it would support NDSU hockey.

Having said that, I am glad that there are people like you because as a Sioux fan, I hope Bison fans are never smart enough to figure out that they are missing out on a huge revenue producer that would make its other sports even stronger.

[FargoBison]

I think NDSU is banking on basketball being its major revenue producer and that is why the university will continue to plug more and more money into the sport. A successful basketball program can open way more doors then a hockey program ever will(potential conference move ups). Hockey is on the back burner for now.

[Fetch]

I think NDSU is banking on basketball being its major revenue producer

That's cool (I guess) I have never been to a UND or NDSU BB game & the NBA has no appeal to me what so ever - except the finals ---(watching Cuban dance last week was entertaining)

If that's true ? It makes Grand Forks alot more attractive to me

[NDSUguy]

You are assuming that because you do not like hockey and would likely not go that there would not be support in Fargo. You could not be more wrong. Even though hockey does not get the support of the park district, it is huge in Fargo and even bigger in Moorhead. Moorhead has 4 sheets of indoor ice, 2 of which are privately owned and funded, and they are adding on. Fargo is building a 5 sheet indoor ice arena with private funds. If you ever go to a Moorhead Spuds game when they are playing a ranked team from Roseau, Warroad or Minneapolis, you would see 3000+ fans in standing room only crowds. If you ever drive on I-29 on Fridays or Saturdays, you would see how many Fargo-Moorhead-West Fargo fans make that trek. If you saw how many FM area people were at the game, you would know what I'm talking about. If you saw how many families from Moorhead, Fargo and West Fargo have sons or daughters playing hockey or have played hockey, you would know what I'm talking about. This is a huge hockey community and there is no question in my mind that it would support NDSU hockey.

Having said that, I am glad that there are people like you because as a Sioux fan, I hope Bison fans are never smart enough to figure out that they are missing out on a huge revenue producer that would make its other sports even stronger.

As someone who grew up in Fargo, went to NDSU and just recently moved from Fargo to Minneapolis I am completely aware of the examples that you stated above. All that said, Hockey at NDSU would never be as big a deal as Sioux hockey. I highly doubt that those who choose to drive to Grand Forks to watch the Sioux would suddenly stop cheering for the Sioux because NDSU had a team. The fact of the matter is that there are only so many ticket dollars to go around and bringing a new sport to town (especially when there is competition like the Sioux) is a bad business decision.

NDSU will continue to fund it's football and basketball programs instead of hockey. We're looking for national exposure and a successful basketball team will always trump that of hockey -- even if NDSU could compete at the same level as UND.

[gabe01]

ndsu has always pissed on hockey as a sport so I think with Blaiser in place and the new arena coming up...we can ALL be comfortable with Fargo being a minor league feeder for UND Hockey!

I want to be the first to say...THANKS to our neighbors down south for all the future Division I banners you will add to the Ralph!!

I don't follow hockey so I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not and I'm probably an idiot...

...but isn't the USHL a minor league team for professional hockey? Won't we see the UND players continue their careers in Fargo?

[gabe01]

Gabe01...since you probably don't know this, the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux hockey team is ranked #1 in the Nation in Division 1 hockey.

Honestly I didn't know that. Congrats! Shoot me an email when you win the Championship too.

[gabe01]

Wow... can you say ignorance?? Or closed-mindedness??

It's people who think like this that make me angry.... At least have some respect for these sports and the athletes that play them...

Ignorant or closed minded because I don't follow sports I don't like? WTF?

I'm trying to think of an example.

Let's say you rip on Brittney Spears and say her music sucks and she's a freakshow.

Pretend I'm a fan (I'm really not) and I can't believe you don't like her music! How dare you!

I reply that your ignorant and closed minded because you don't like Brittney Spears. You should at least respect the entertainer.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not a fan of Brittney Spears!

[82SiouxGuy]

I don't follow hockey so I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not and I'm probably an idiot...

...but isn't the USHL a minor league team for professional hockey? Won't we see the UND players continue their careers in Fargo?

The system in hockey is completely different than all other sports. The USHL is a junior league. It is all amateurs. The players are either in high school or 1-2 years out of high school. Some leave their regular high school teams, move to the city they are going to play in and live with families. They go to high school and play hockey. Some play a little bit of USHL hockey either before or after their high school seasons. The guys that are done with high school mainly just play hockey. Most of the players in the USHL are trying to land college scholarships. It is possible to go straight to the pros but it is rare. The NAHL is another junior league of hockey. Fargo has had a team in the NAHL for several years. Most people consider the USHL to be a higher level of juniors than the NAHL.

In Canada they have different levels of junior hockey. Major juniors are mainly a feeder system for pro hockey. If a player plays for a Canadian major junior team he loses some or all of his college eligibility. Players from leagues like the USHL often have a choice of playing major juniors in Canada or going the college route in the US. Canada also has lower level junior leagues that are similar to the USHL. The BCHL is one such league with teams in both Canada and the US out on the West Coast.

There are also several levels of minor league hockey which are similar to minor league baseball. The AHL, the ECHL and the CHL are all minor leagues for the NHL. Players from the college level or major juniors are usually the players that go on to minor league hockey, and maybe the NHL.