Gas Prices

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

It's still BS that REA charges students anything more than $0 for a ticket.

Should they let all of the students who want in for free?

[Sal Atticum]

Should they let all of the students who want in for free?

It's our hockey team, isn't it?

[siouxnami]

The average person drives 12000 miles per year and the total average MPG in 2006 was 21 for cars and light trucks. That means that the average person uses 571 Gallons of gas. At $2 per gallon that is $1142 dollars and at $3 is $1713. A difference of $48 per month. Not insignificant, but there is a reason why this doesn't really hurt the economy.

Now if you drove a Prius, which if we ignore the whiners for a second, has about the same interior space as a Camry, Accord, or Taurus, you would realistically get about 46 MPG. Then gas would cost you $783.

The reality is that gas prices are just fun to whine about. What we drive and how much we drive is a choice we make. If you really hate gas prices, the live close to work, shopping, and entertainment, ride a bike when it is nice, only own 1 vehicle in the household and see if you really care when gas prices go up.

Just remember you are more likely to see $10 gas in the remainder of your life than you are to see $1 gas...

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

It's our hockey team, isn't it?

Ok, Let's say the Gophers are in town and 8,000 students want to go to the game for free? What would you propose?

[Sal Atticum]

Ok, Let's say the Gophers are in town and 8,000 students want to go to the game for free? What would you propose?

The Ralph (according to their website) can seat 11,640 people for a hockey game. First come, first served.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

The Ralph (according to their website) can seat 11,640 people for a hockey game. First come, first served.

Fair enough, but unless you are going to allow all 8,000 students in for free than you are back tracking on your previous point.

What you are saying is fine but don't sugar-coat it. If you let students in for free the other ticket holders will pay more. Now if you let more students in for free than the ticketholders will pay an even higher premium.

[mikeypat15]

The Ralph (according to their website) can seat 11,640 people for a hockey game. First come, first served.

Welcome to siouxsports mburtonk, just a reminder, the REA and the University of North Dakota are both businesses, and are always looking to make a profit. I'm a student and do not mind at all paying $6 bucks a ticket, it is a steal, compared to the rest of the arena. Have fun getting tickets every week if they were free, then your just asking every student to get tickets, and probably less student attendance during games IMO due to the game now being at the student's convience.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm glad to see the National Don't Buy Gas Day worked, as most analysts predicted prices would go up due to the increased demand the day after, looks like up .15 cents in Grand Forks today.

Lastly yesterday I was watching WGN News at Noon, and outside of Chicago they are converting cars to complete electricity, and its like a tenth of the cost. Also the state of Illinois is giving people $4000 if they convert their vehicles. Only downside, cars only get 50 miles to a charge, but if you stay in Grand Forks most of the time, it wouldn't affect most people.

[HockeyMom]

"Let's just stop buying gas altogether then."

If you don't want to pay high gas prices you don't need anyone else to stop driving. If you aren't buying gas than the high prices won't effect you. Since you will still buy gas and you won't stop driving than it your system will not benefit you at all.

Sorry, I forgot to light the sarcasm light......

"It still angers me that they cap the wheat prices, and not the gas prices."

Why stop at capping gas prices? Let's cap the price of everything. Let's start telling the REA that they can't charge more than 5 dollars a ticket. Let's start telling Dell that they can't charge more than $20 for a computer.

Why cap the wheat prices in the first place?

[Sioux-cia]

Why cap the wheat prices in the first place?

Because then they can say "Let them eat cake" with a clear conscience.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

Welcome to siouxsports mburtonk, just a reminder, the REA and the University of North Dakota are both businesses, and are always looking to make a profit. I'm a student and do not mind at all paying $6 bucks a ticket, it is a steal, compared to the rest of the arena. Have fun getting tickets every week if they were free, then your just asking every student to get tickets, and probably less student attendance during games IMO due to the game now being at the student's convience.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm glad to see the National Don't Buy Gas Day worked, as most analysts predicted prices would go up due to the increased demand the day after, looks like up .15 cents in Grand Forks today.

Lastly yesterday I was watching WGN News at Noon, and outside of Chicago they are converting cars to complete electricity, and its like a tenth of the cost. Also the state of Illinois is giving people $4000 if they convert their vehicles. Only downside, cars only get 50 miles to a charge, but if you stay in Grand Forks most of the time, it wouldn't affect most people.

"Lastly yesterday I was watching WGN News at Noon, and outside of Chicago they are converting cars to complete electricity, and its like a tenth of the cost. Also the state of Illinois is giving people $4000 if they convert their vehicles. Only downside, cars only get 50 miles to a charge, but if you stay in Grand Forks most of the time, it wouldn't affect most people."

Well another downside is that batteries don't work real well when it is -10 outside. So now we have classic dilemma, CO2 curve supporters say that more CO2 in the atmosphere will heat up the earth. So they don't want people to use gasoline because it contributes to higher CO2 levels. But one of the best alternatives to gasoline requires warmer climates to maximize effeciency.

[fee_0405]

I figured the Bush-bashers would come out. The whole not building a new refinery for 20 years while demand has gone up steadily might play a key role. The US could easily get enough oil to meet its needs, there is enough out there, but whats the point when u can't refine it. And why would people build more refineries when oil might just price itself out of being the most feasible energy in the next ten years. Its still far cheaper to buy a regular car than paying the extra for the hybrid. You would need gas to be at about 5 bucks before you save, being that hybrids don't last as long and cost so much more on average anyways. The new Smart car coming out next year or the Mini would be a better option if your that concerned. Capitalism and people will decide when enough is enough with the gas prices. The second hybrids or hydrogen or electric become a dime cheaper than paying the high prices for gas, the change will happen.

[BigGame]

"Let's just stop buying gas altogether then."

If you don't want to pay high gas prices you don't need anyone else to stop driving. If you aren't buying gas than the high prices won't effect you. Since you will still buy gas and you won't stop driving than it your system will not benefit you at all.

"It still angers me that they cap the wheat prices, and not the gas prices."

Why stop at capping gas prices? Let's cap the price of everything. Let's start telling the REA that they can't charge more than 5 dollars a ticket. Let's start telling Dell that they can't charge more than $20 for a computer.

You don't like the idea of the government putting a cap on what we buy that's fine but it shouldn't be OK to limit one item and not another.

The oil companies are to blame for a lot of the prices even though they claim it's all supply and demand which is complete BS. I work around a lot of people in the oil business and prices skyrocket in the summer months because they know people will pay them or lose a family vacation among other things. These oil companies are all setting profit records and everyone are these companies are getting a fat bonus every quarter. I understand fuel costs have and should go up, but it is BS that they are going to end up 2 dollars higher per gallon in the summer compared to the winter. I agree that people should probably use less fuel, but gas prices don't match up globally. The prices went through the roof during Katrina and Rita because refineries had to be shut down, what's the excuse for the high prices this summer?

[BigGame]

I figured the Bush-bashers would come out. The whole not building a new refinery for 20 years while demand has gone up steadily might play a key role. The US could easily get enough oil to meet its needs, there is enough out there, but whats the point when u can't refine it. And why would people build more refineries when oil might just price itself out of being the most feasible energy in the next ten years. Its still far cheaper to buy a regular car than paying the extra for the hybrid. You would need gas to be at about 5 bucks before you save, being that hybrids don't last as long and cost so much more on average anyways. The new Smart car coming out next year or the Mini would be a better option if your that concerned. Capitalism and people will decide when enough is enough with the gas prices. The second hybrids or hydrogen or electric become a dime cheaper than paying the high prices for gas, the change will happen.

Hasn't it been government restrictions that have limited the ability to refine oil and make it much more difficult to build new refineries? All these restrictions were in place long before GW was elected.

[GeauxSioux]

People are always complaining about how the oil companies are making these huge record profits. If you maintain the same profit margin, say 5% and the cost of your product goes up 10%, your profits will go up. Crude example using fictitious numbers.

$100/barrel to buy, putting 5% on and sell at $105 and they are making $5 a barrel per barrel

Now with a 10% increase in the cost of your raw material:

$110/barrel to buy, putting 5% on top and sell at $115.50 and they are making $5.50 per barrel.

People will say that their profits went up, which is true, but their profit margin remains the same. The newspaper come out and vilify the evil oil company for their "record profits". One of the presidential candidate, whom shall remain nameless, recently said:

"The Democrats know what needs to be done. Again, we're working trying to try push this agenda forward. The other day the oil companies reported the highest profits in the history of the world. I want to take those profits and I want to put them into a strategic energy fund that will begin to fund alternative, smart energy; alternatives and technology that will begin to actually move us toward the direction of independence."

Emphasis added is mine.

The government already makes more off the sale of a gallon of gasoline through taxes then the oil companies do. This is beginning to sound less like American capitalism and more like socialism.

[HockeyMom]

$100/barrel to buy, putting 5% on and sell at $105 and they are making $5 a barrel per barrel

Now with a 10% increase in the cost of your raw material:

$110/barrel to buy, putting 5% on top and sell at $115.50 and they are making $5.50 per barrel.

I know that this is an example......but right now they're buying it for $60something a barrel and selling it for way more. The oil companies haven't put the money into making more refineries.....be it government restrictions, or whatever. Which turns into demand being too great, which turns into high prices. The oil business is a business where not having put money into that business is making them richer and richer. That makes no sense, whatsoever to me.

[siouxnami]

I figured the Bush-bashers would come out. The whole not building a new refinery for 20 years while demand has gone up steadily might play a key role. The US could easily get enough oil to meet its needs, there is enough out there, but whats the point when u can't refine it. And why would people build more refineries when oil might just price itself out of being the most feasible energy in the next ten years. Its still far cheaper to buy a regular car than paying the extra for the hybrid. You would need gas to be at about 5 bucks before you save, being that hybrids don't last as long and cost so much more on average anyways. The new Smart car coming out next year or the Mini would be a better option if your that concerned. Capitalism and people will decide when enough is enough with the gas prices. The second hybrids or hydrogen or electric become a dime cheaper than paying the high prices for gas, the change will happen.

This is the great GOP myth...

True, a refinery has not been built. However what they don't tell you is how significantly existing refineries have been expanded enough that the capacity to utilization ratios are similar to 30 years ago. Also, please tell me what incentive oil companies have to build a new refinery. Last I checked their bottom lines were doing fine.

Also hybrids don't last as long: Myth

Smart or Mini would be better: True in fact a case could be made that properly inflating tires on an SUV at every fill save more gas than going from 50 to 100 MPG...

[PCM]

This country is headed toward a major energy crisis. We won't build power plants. We won't build transmission lines. We won't build refineries. We desperately need to replace old, inefficient power plants and refineries with cleaner, more efficient designs. We do all we can to avoid mining the coal within our borders. We also avoid exploiting the petroleum resources in our country and off our shores.

All this talk about the potential of wind energy is nothing but talk until we can build transmission lines from the places with abundant wind energy to the places with high energy demand. We've spent billions of dollars over several decades perfecting technologies to make oil, gas and other valuable products from coal (and the US has far more energy stored in its coal reserves than Saudi Arabia has in oil), but we won't exploit that technology, either.

So why don't we do these things? It

[SiouxMD]

This country is headed toward a major energy crisis. We won't build power plants. We won't build transmission lines. We won't build refineries. We desperately need to replace old, inefficient power plants and refineries with cleaner, more efficient designs. We do all we can to avoid mining the coal within our borders. We also avoid exploiting the petroleum resources in our country and off our shores.

All this talk about the potential of wind energy is nothing but talk until we can build transmission lines from the places with abundant wind energy to the places with high energy demand. We've spent billions of dollars over several decades perfecting technologies to make oil, gas and other valuable products from coal (and the US has far more energy stored in its coal reserves than Saudi Arabia has in oil), but we won't exploit that technology, either.

So why don't we do these things? It

[HockeyMom]

Don't forget the oil reserves in Western North Dakota.

Didn't they say earlier in the year that that oil was only worth about $20 a barrel and wasn't good enough to use?

And didn't they just find the largest oil reserve in US history off of the Gulf Shore not so long ago?

Just for your info, gas in Mayville this morning was still at $3.199 almost $0.20 a gallon cheaper then when I left home.

[GeauxSioux]

I know that this is an example......but right now they're buying it for $60something a barrel and selling it for way more. The oil companies haven't put the money into making more refineries.....be it government restrictions, or whatever. Which turns into demand being too great, which turns into high prices. The oil business is a business where not having put money into that business is making them richer and richer. That makes no sense, whatsoever to me.

Do you have information as to how much Exxon, for instance, pays for and sells a barrel?

I have a neighbor who works for Chevron, in the lubricant end of the business and from what I hear from him and others, is the amount of red tape and regulation to build a new refinery is unfathomable. Hurricane season is just around the corner and makes the current situation even worse. Every time a hurricane enters the Gulf, they start evacuating the drilling platforms and refineries close down to all, but essential personnel.

There are vast oil deposits in the Gulf of Mexico and ANWR, but the environmentalists have not allowed us to go after these reserves, putting us more at the whim of countries of the Middle East and Venezuela.

You may notice that I post a lot of information on what is going on at EERC. I have a great interest in alternatives to the direction we are currently taking and would love our beloved EERC to take us in that direction. I also have been watching LM Glasfiber, as I think North Dakota has huge potential for wind farms.

"Big Oil" may contribute to where we are right now, but I put more of the blame at the feet of the environmentalists movement for they are not the NIMBY's, they are the BANANAs, (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone).

By the way, I paid $3.06/gallon this afternoon downtown Pensacola.

[GeauxSioux]

What exactly is American capitalism anyways? The rich get richer at the expense of the middle class? I think these current gas prices are an example of the concept of capitalism being corrupted with greed and selfishness. It was a good idea in the beginning, but it has gotten out of hand. Our entire economy is going to start suffering pretty soon with 10% of the people controlling 90% of the wealth.

Hmmm, a system that allows people to use their talents and take some risks and achieve (see Ralph Engelstad) or a system that rewards people to not work via the welfare system, "earned income tax credit" and other social programs? I think I'll take the capitalist model.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are people in our country who genuinely need assistance; and I have no problem that we as a society care for them. But I live in the south and see far too many people living off the system and yet complaining about it. I work with men whom I have talked about advancing their careers and they have no ambition to take advantage of an opportunity, because it would require that they actually take some initiative and responsiblity.

Dave, I believe that the only thing in life in which you and I would agree is our passion for UND and Sioux sports.

[Sioux-cia]

Dave, I believe that the only thing in life in which you and I would agree is our passion for UND and Sioux sports.

Nothing wrong with that!!

[Goon]

I know that this is an example......but right now they're buying it for $60something a barrel and selling it for way more. The oil companies haven't put the money into making more refineries.....be it government restrictions, or whatever. Which turns into demand being too great, which turns into high prices. The oil business is a business where not having put money into that business is making them richer and richer. That makes no sense, whatsoever to me.

Actually we haven't built a new refinary in 30 years due to ridculous enviornmental laws. I talked an oil man in Medora two years ago that said they have more oil than we can shake a stick at, its the refinaries can't keep up with the oil rigs.

[Goon]

What exactly is American capitalism anyways? The rich get richer at the expense of the middle class? I think these current gas prices are an example of the concept of capitalism being corrupted with greed and selfishness. It was a good idea in the beginning, but it has gotten out of hand. Our entire economy is going to start suffering pretty soon with 10% of the people controlling 90% of the wealth.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

What exactly is American capitalism anyways? The rich get richer at the expense of the middle class? I think these current gas prices are an example of the concept of capitalism being corrupted with greed and selfishness. It was a good idea in the beginning, but it has gotten out of hand. Our entire economy is going to start suffering pretty soon with 10% of the people controlling 90% of the wealth.

Wow Dave, Hillary Clinton thinks your statement is too liberal.

Let's look at Bill Gates for a second. His company sells a product that 90% of consumers use or will use. Now if you want to hurt Bill Gates then stop buying computers that have windows operating systems or any other microsoft products.

Are you saying that capitalism rewards the people that work hard or work smart? If so I would agree.

If you are saying that Bill Gates and other wealthy people get rich off of people buying their products/services? Again I would agree.

Well I'd be interested in hearing how you would change this "problem" of people like Bill Gates getting wealthy off of consumers buying his product.

Remember that the top 10% already pay 70+% of all income tax.