who has a Hand Gun ?

[Slamdance]

How do quantify the risk Dave? By potential or stupidity? And the risk is on who? You say the risks of guns is troublesome, but you advocate smoking. You want to strip the rights of gun owners, but you can't see the overall harm done by smoking in society. Smoking kills tens of thousands more people in this country each year than do guns and that is not even debatable. By the way, are you Nancy Pelosi's brother??

I'll take for granted that smoking/smoking related issues kill more people than guns. I don't care. I do not understand either one of the sides on these issues.

Oxbow6, Sioux-cia, et al, are ok with guns and legal gun ownership, but want to remove the right of a business owner to legally allow smoking in his OWN establishment.

DaveK and some others whom I'm to lazy to go back and find out who they are, are ok with legally smoking in bars, but want to even further restrict gun ownership to the point of taking guns away from everybody. (IF I'm exaggerating, please correct me.)

This is what I'm referring to as a nanny state. All of you need to stop making decisions for me. If I want to own a bar that allows smoking and carry my gun inside said bar, I should be able to. If you don't like smoking or the fact the owner is strapped, don't effin' patronize the place.

Personal responsibility, people, is it really that difficult for you to grasp?

[Slamdance]

I think the key to smoking is moderation.

The key to pretty much everything is moderation.

But, IMO, you are still ducking the question of what is the difference in restricting smoking vs. restricting firearms ownership.

[Goon]

The only difference is that I like having the option to smoke in a bar, while I don't like guns at all. It's just my own self-serving opinion, nothing more and nothing less.

Ah the crux of the issue is your self serving opinion. You don't like gun so you think everyone shouldn't own one, and you think the Nanny State should take guns away from legal gun owners but believe it or not you're already enjoying the protection and cover of people that are carry a concealed weapon on their person daily. Funny thing is you don't even realize it you're enjoying the benifits of this. You can't believe how many people are concealed to carry a fire arm on their person. I await your next researched, well thought out and informed reply to this.

[Goon]

Funny thing you don't even realize is that so-called benefit is actually a risk.

Wrong, gong... They provide a safety that you don't even realize. Like I said before stick to something you know.

You are dead wrong on gun right and are uninformed when it comes to the issues surrounding the guns and gun ownership.

[Sioux-cia]

Fact - Unfortunately, many of us know of someone who's life was saved because someone or they had a hand gun.

Fact - Unfortunately, many of us know someone who's life was taken because they did not have a hand gun.

Fact - Unfortunately, many of us know someone who's life was taken without a gun/rifle/assault weapon.

Fact - Unfortunately, many of us know someone who's life was taken by someone who used a gun/rifle/assault weapon.

Because of my own personal experiences in life, given what I know as cited above, I know that I am safer owning a hand gun than not owning a hand gun.

If you have had the similiar life experiences as I have had (sister and niece murdered by fire, murderer allowed to go free, murderer-who did not have a gun on him then justifiably killed by gun while attempting to harm/kill another woman), I will listen to your point of view. If you are citing 'facts' from a stand up comedian's act, your opinion is without merit, IMHO.

*I use 'unfortunate' in all the above because no matter what the outcome, violence is always an unfortunate occurrence.

[Sioux-cia]

Telling someone you disagree with they have 'a hard on for guns' and calling others 'gun nuts' does not add to your credibilty.

[Sioux-cia]

I was trying to make a point, not earn credibility.

Noted.

[Goon]

we constantly read stories in the paper about gun related accidents while we very rarely read stories about somebody who is not a police officer taking down a would-be criminal with a gun. I think the hard-on that you appear to have for guns is blinding you to the great danger that owning one creates. I think perhaps you are the one who should stick to something you know (like who gets into the most fights in the NHL), because you don't seem to have a clue as to the risk that goes along with your perceived benefit.

There are many stories where someone was in their house minding their own business when some moron with a gun came into their house and tried to rob or rape them only to have a legal gun owner repel them. In some instances the gun owner legally shoot the criminal invader.

I do not have a hard on for guns nor do I own a hand gun, I am passonate about the second ammendment and I know that it is under attack every day. I have a number of guns that I use for hunting, I do not own a hand gun but I support the right for someone to own one if they are not a felon. I know more about guns than you can begin to know. I took my gun saftey in junior hight and I read about the issue and inform myself because of like minded uninformed people like you that advocate gun confiscation and and scorn people who own them. Lastly, your making an false assumptions about this issue and you have failed to answer the questions people have posed to you. I will not waste anymore breath on you because I am getting tired of this circular issue. So this is the last time that I will engage you on this issue, in this thread, you are not informed nor do you want to listen to others who have laid out the argument step by step. Finally I will not again engage you on this issue. So go ahead get the last word.

Legal gun owners are a very informed bunch of people who are constatly under attack the politicians and people that are ignorant about the second ammendment. They are not this foam at the mouth bunch of people you think we are, gun owners are left, right, conservative, libertarian (sp), Liberal. We are also not a bunch of dumb red necks or hill billys.

[Goon]

Since smoking has become part of the conversation regarding guns, how about we throw in trans fats. NYC restaurants have banned their use as of yesterday. New York bans trans-fats

So are they going to start hauling people off to jail that use transfat?

[Bison Dan]

Those stories are few and far between. For every one of those stories I've heard, I've heard 50 others about people dying as a result of gun related accidents. That's why I consider the risk to outweigh any potential benefits.

Around here you won't hear my stories about either. Most gun accidents are people that purchase a gun (hand gun) for personal protection and don't learn how to properly use it. They don't have their kids learn how to handle a gun (hunter safety) and that's when accidents happen. It's personal responsibility - no different than getting into a car drunk and causing an accident. The NRA magazine is full of AP stories about how gun owners have saved themselves or someone else with a gun. The trouble with the national news media is all they report are the accidents.

[Goon]

Around here you won't hear my stories about either. Most gun accidents are people that purchase a gun (hand gun) for personal protection and don't learn how to properly use it. They don't have their kids learn how to handle a gun (hunter safety) and that's when accidents happen. It's personal responsibility - no different than getting into a car drunk and causing an accident. The NRA magazine is full of AP stories about how gun owners have saved themselves or someone else with a gun. The trouble with the national news media is all they report are the accidents.

Bison Dan that was well stated! The key is gun saftey and teaching family members how to respect, shoot and defend themselves safely.

[siouxguyinstpaul]

damn Dave - you are persistant anyway. I would have given up long ago. Do you always like to take the unpopular side and beat it to death? What are your thoughts on abortion?

[siouxguyinstpaul]

because these are the two issues that nobody - and I mean nobody - changes their stance on no matter how much persuasion is attempted

[Slamdance]

Just like you were annoyed, upset, etc. that the CHOICE was being taken away in Fargo for smokers, why would you want to remove anyone's choice to legally possess a firearm?

No one is forcing you to own a gun. I happen to enjoy owning guns. I happen to have enjoyed being taught by my father and grandfather responsible gun ownership and I am looking forward to teaching my children the same. Why would you want to take that from me?

Here I go quoting myself again...

I guess I'm just waiting for DaveK to answer the effin' questions.

And, as Bill Maher said, "I'm pro-choice, pro-death penalty, pro-assisted suicide, pro-unassisted suicide, hell, I'm for anything that gets the traffic moving..."

[Goon]

Here I go quoting myself again...

I guess I'm just waiting for DaveK to answer the effin' questions.

And, as Bill Maher said, "I'm pro-choice, pro-death penalty, pro-assisted suicide, pro-unassisted suicide, hell, I'm for anything that gets the traffic moving..."

As a righty I Like Bill Maher, I watch his show on HBO weekly, during the season. I wasn't real confortable with his anti-Catholic rant though I thought it that was a little over the top. Ironically he dated Ann Coulter.

[Sioux-cia]

As a righty I Like Bill Maher, I watch his show on HBO weekly, during the season. I wasn't real confortable with his anti-Catholic rant though I thought it that was a little over the top. Ironically he dated Ann Coulter.

Soooooo, he's a eunuch now?

[Slamdance]

As a righty I Like Bill Maher, I watch his show on HBO weekly, during the season. I wasn't real confortable with his anti-Catholic rant though I thought it that was a little over the top. Ironically he dated Ann Coulter.

I don't think he dated her as much as HAD to find out if she had a penis to go with her Adam's apple.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I still find more to agree with his and others anger at the Church's covering up for molesters than the Church's explanations (or lackthereof) for it.

And I'm still waiting for DaveK to answer my questions...

Or is personal responsibility not applicable to legal gun ownership, just owning/going to bars that allow smoking?

[GF_siouxfan]

i own a Pink .22 and its sweet if someone were to break in to my house i would wound him with the little round it pumps out and beat the crap out of him with the Hot Pink stock until the police arrive

[Slamdance]

i own a Pink .22 and its sweet if someone were to break in to my house i would wound him with the little round it pumps out and beat the crap out of him with the Hot Pink stock until the police arrive

PINK???!!!

Embrace your feminine side.

[GF_siouxfan]

im actually wearing a horsey t shirt right now

[Slamdance]

Just like you were annoyed, upset, etc. that the CHOICE was being taken away in Fargo for smokers, why would you want to remove anyone's choice to legally possess a firearm?

No one is forcing you to own a gun. I happen to enjoy owning guns. I happen to have enjoyed being taught by my father and grandfather responsible gun ownership and I am looking forward to teaching my children the same. Why would you want to take that from me?

Hey DaveK,

These are the questions in question...

Enjoy

[Slamdance]

Okay, that's what I thought. I was pretty sure I already answered those questions, but here I go again...

Because I personally detest guns and have a strong desire for the world to someday be rid of them altogether. My own personal selfish agenda, nothing more and nothing less.

Fair enough.

Good luck with that.

We shall have to agree to disagree on guns and gun ownership.

Have a great Independence Day, one and all!!!