gjacks Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 To JBB, bisonguy, tony, and all of the other Bison apologists who have offered their "insights" on the behavior of fans at Saturday night's game: Shame on you. Couch it any way like but these acts are deplorable and have no place in a civil society. Vulgarity, profanity, and this kind of in-your-face intimidation from the bleachers have turned a great traditional rivalry from a fun time for all into an episode of "Survivor" (but without the intellectual benefits of that program). I think the chant of "rape their women" from NDSU students during a game at Memorial Stadium signalled the beginning of the end of a civil rivalry. Take your boorish behavior to Division I and Godspeed to you. I for one am looking forward to a time when I can again enjoy the atmosphere of fans being enthusiastic about THEIR team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Does anybody have any suggestions as to a course of action to resolve this? There have been a lot of "shame on you's" thrown around, but I haven't heard any suggestions to prevent something like this from happening again. What about punishment for the accused individuals? Gene Taylor said the visiting team will no longer use the same entrance as NDSU. This should help out. How about putting a couple extra security guards in the entrance when the visiting team is entering/exiting? The seating issue is somewhat difficult because of the bleachers, but how about not allowing students in the first five rows? Any other takers for coming up with solutions, instead of reiterating the same accusations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Any other takers for coming up with solutions, instead of reiterating the same accusations? I've never been to a basketball game at NDSU and don't follow the sport all that closely. However, on last night's UND coaches show, Gene Roebuck mentioned something about NDSU fans sitting closer to the visiting team's bench than NCAA rules allow. He said this would be corrected and that it would help. Roebuck seemed to be satisfied that NDSU was making a sincere effort to fix the problems. I suspect the reason most UND fans are upset is because incidents such as these were allowed to happen by NDSU officials in such an important game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 How about this? Move the students to the other side (away from the visitors). They'd still be court-side.Make part of the area for "visiting fans." How about right behind the visiting bench.Sell the rest of what is now "student seating" as high-dollar TeamMakers donations seats because they are close to the court and benches.Pretty simple, huh? Do we have to figure everything out for you. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Nothing is ever easy. This one would work: Move the students to the other side (away from the visitors). They'd still be court-side.Would this be visiting students or visiting "TeamMaker-like" fans sitting here? Make part of the area for "visiting fans." How about right behind the visiting bench. Were any TeamMaker-Like people in the involved with the crowd where the taunting was going on? I have seen lots of adults misbehave at sports events. Sell the rest of what is now "student seating" as high-dollar TeamMakers donations seats because they are close to the court and benches. At Lambeau Field they announce to the crowd that anyone that is disorderly and is removed from the game, permanently loses their season ticket privileges. I rarely see people being escorted out of a Packer game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 quit making excuse u racial NDSU people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 quit making excuse u racial NDSU people yeh tehrs way 2 muhc racialism going on doun at NDSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxrock Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 yeh tehrs way 2 muhc racialism going on doun at NDSU atleast i have some1 agreeing with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Siouxrock Posted on Mar 6 2003, 07:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quit making excuse u racial NDSU people Siouxcrock, what about those sexual UND people? Posted on Thu, Mar. 06, 2003  CRIME: Police jail UND man as suspect in rapes By Stephen J. Lee Herald Staff Writer The vice president of the student Criminal Justice Association at UND was jailed Wednesday, the suspect in a string of violent sexual assaults on or near campus during the past 18 months. According to Det. Mike Sholes of the Grand Forks Police Department, Paul Sambursky, 28, will appear today in Grand Forks court to be formally charged with gross sexual imposition in two incidents that occurred last fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 BisonMav: If you have "high-dollar" donation seats where the students are (save for an area immediately behind the visitor bench for visiting fans) do you really think those folks are as likely to create similar problems in the future? I don't believe the folks that can shell out the bucks for those type of seats are as likely to, let's just say, "go overboard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I think we are talking about the same thing, just coming from different angles. Sometimes people with big bucks feel like they own the place, and with the help of a little alcohol, can act that way. Also some of them give tickets to their kids, or friends etc, leading to a similar incident. The threat of losing your season ticket privileges, Lambeau Field Rule, would help reduce the chances even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjacks Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 At least part of the problem with fan behavior relates to the way it is viewed by Athletics Administration. After the MSU-Mankato incident Gene Taylor said, (this is paraphrasing) We want our fans to give the opponent Hell, that is part of the home advantage, but sometimes it goes too far. He seems to be saying that unless someone objects to fans going too far, that whatever they do is okay and we will deal with the consequences as they arise rather than trying to prevent such incidents from occurring. I think creates a "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" perception of his protestations and makes one wonder how sincere he is in dealing with these incidents. He says all the right things, let's see how that translates into action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Maybe you should take it to the NCC Commissioner. It does not look like NDSU is going to take the actions or make all the changes you require. If that does not work, there is the NCAA. SSDD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 SSDD Since the universe of athletic directors and conference commissioners is quite a small, I am not at all concerned about what the NCC or NCAA says. However, as stated previously, perhaps you should be concerned about what the Horizon, Mo Valley, and Gateway Commissioners think about these incidents, as your non-independent future depends on them. Not exactly a good position to place yourselves in. Last Thursday, the NDSU Spectrum posted another denial by a toga-clad student, who had a most wonderful time at the game directly behind the bench. The contrast in school newpapers is incredible: the Dakota Student is written with a far left agenda, while the NDSU Spectrum is written from a libertarians for debauchery perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 You keep talking to me, and referencing things other people have said or done or denied. We were discussing solutions. Now we are back into this. star2city: However, as stated previously, perhaps you should be concerned about what the Horizon, Mo Valley, and Gateway Commissioners think about these incidents, as your non-independent future depends on them. Not exactly a good position to place yourselves in.You are more concerned than I am. star2city: Last Thursday, the NDSU Spectrum posted another denial by a toga-clad student, who had a most wonderful time at the game directly behind the bench. The contrast in school newpapers is incredible: the Dakota Student is written with a far left agenda, while the NDSU Spectrum is written from a libertarians for debauchery perspective. Where is your unbiased documentation of the event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 Where is your unbiased documentation of the event? For any event, there are no totally unbiased, non-slanted reports, if the reporter is human. What is undeniable is there were problems, as stated even in the NDSU-leaning Fargo Forum (below), which quotes an NDSU-protecting Gene Taylor. Combining this information from the NDSU Spectrum articles and Gene Roebucks radio statements, and allowing for a slant by all three sources, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there were serious crowd issues. But, Taylor said, NDSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 What is undeniable is there were problems You keep speaking about denial. Sounds like Taylor is looking at solutions, according to this article. The only denial I have seen on this issue is accusations of denial. Why would people talk about solutions to a problem that they believe is not even there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 You keep speaking about denial. Sounds like Taylor is looking at solutions, according to this article. The only denial I have seen on this issue is accusations of denial. I've been trying to stay out of this one, but... I have to agree that Taylor is talking good about making changes. While that's never a guarantee (at NDSU, UND, or anywhere), I agree that it appears to be taken seriously right now at NDSU. The concern I think a lot of people have is that it also appeared to be taken seriously in the previous two incidents in the past year. It's starting to seem to some of us that a few in the NDSU administration prefer to give the troublemakers free reign and then apologize afterwards rather than attempt to restrain those bad fans' behavior in advance. That same .1% of idiotic fans exists at every school, including UND. However, permitting that behavior (in spite of a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" admonishment) reflects poorly on the other 99.9% of fans who find it deplorable. I think a certain group of us fans are surprised because when similar incidents occur at UND (e.g. homecoming parade around '90), we're embarrassed and call for action because we don't want those idiots representing us. I guess we're all looking for some results to go along with the good intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 You keep speaking about denial. Sounds like Taylor is looking at solutions, according to this article. The only denial I have seen on this issue is accusations of denial. Denial came from the Sport Geek Column of the NDSU Spectrum, as well as a later article by the TOGA guy in the same newspaper. To me, denial is contained in this quote by Gene Taylor:With 6,500 people, was it out of control? No. But we have to look at ways to improve. If athletes are being touched during or after a game, it was, by definition, out of control. Denial after denial came from JBB. (Side note: When was he banned? I'm sure NDSU public relations is heaving a sigh of relief, as are most of the readers of this board! ) If the sanctimonious stand on the Sioux name by the NDSU athletic department and the NDSU student senate had not been made, this story would have been less of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 If the sanctimonious stand on the Sioux name by the NDSU athletic department and the NDSU student senate had not been made, this story would have been less of an issue.I am not going to get into the nickname issue, I have stated my view on this before. Denial came from the Sport Geek Column of the NDSU Spectrum, as well as a later article by the TOGA guy in the same newspaper. To me, denial is contained in this quote by Gene Taylor:QUOTE With 6,500 people, was it out of control? No. But we have to look at ways to improve. If athletes are being touched during or after a game, it was, by definition, out of control. Denial after denial came from JBB. (Side note: When was he banned? I'm sure NDSU public relations is heaving a sigh of relief, as are most of the readers of this board! ) To me "denial" would have Taylor saying "Nothing happened, everything went well, the fans were well behaved." Even the quote below has implications that something happened. It all depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on. QUOTE With 6,500 people, was it out of control? No. But we have to look at ways to improve.It looks like your biggest complaint is "action talks, BS walks". We will have to wait and see on this. The concern I think a lot of people have is that it also appeared to be taken seriously in the previous two incidents in the past year. It's starting to seem to some of us that a few in the NDSU administration prefer to give the troublemakers free reign and then apologize afterwards rather than attempt to restrain those bad fans' behavior in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsioux Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 JBB, was banned? what!?! who? what? when? where? Now we have to put up with the civil Bison fans who can argue without making a fool of themselves, most of the time anyway. What fun is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 star2city Posted: Mar 6 2003, 06:33 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Another can of worms. UND has taken action since with runways for the Officials. But is the Coach defending what happened? He was joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 PCM Posted on Mar 13 2003, 07:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE (BisonMav @ Mar 13 2003, 05:40 PM) Another can of worms. UND has taken action since with runways for the Officials. But is the Coach defending what happened? He was joking. Just my way of pointing out what jimdahl had said was true, with a little added sarcasm of my own. The throwing of drinks, popcorn and spitting could happen almost anywhere. jimdahl quote: That same .1% of idiotic fans exists at every school, including UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 UND dealt head on with the problem. You can see (runway) one aspect. They've used arena cameras to detect "problem children" and banned them from the arena. Like somebody said: "Action talks, BS walks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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