Another Racial Taunting Event At Ndsu

[The Sicatoka]

Someone (some say UND fans, others say NDSU fans, who knows) allegedly did one hundred thousand dollars of damage to FargoDome and it did not make the news?

Fargo media didn't report this alleged pelting of Hager?

But Fargo media did report Saturday's incident and the incident with MSU-Mankato.

Are you saying "The Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy" controls Fargo media?

Thanks for my chuckle of the day.

[tony]

AAAAAARGGGHHH! I was going to leave this alone but *for the love of God* Sicatoka, just how obtuse are you? I'm thinking your skull has a Mohs scale reading of 11.5.

No, the Fargo media DID NOT report the pelting of Hager's assistant coaches or the drunk frat boy and his limp-wristed attempt to bean Rocky with a beer can. That's my point. You can't use the silence of the Fargo media to mean that something didn't happen. These things aren't alleged - they damn well happened. Oh, but no proof beyond video shot by a UND journalism student will work for you because it's an accusation directed at UND - I forgot. Holy cow!

Your "Vast Fasting Sioux Conspiracy" seems to be your last resort for everything. If you're going to keep playing that tune, get yourself a funny hat and a monkey because you're being a clown.

[The Sicatoka]

Silence by media means (a) it wasn't newsworthy, (b) they didn't know about it, or © it didn't happen. Which is it? I don't know.

Reporting, objective reporting of fact, lends to credibility of a story.

One hundred thousand dollars is a lot of public money to be "swept under the rug" (no reporting) by anyone. How could that happen? The Forum has solid city and NDSU connections (for either case you bring up). Why wasn't it objectively reported? Is there more to the story than what is put forth here?

Like I said earlier, if Roebuck et al were out of line with statements Saturday, NDSU should ask for an apology in return when they apologize to UND for Saturday's events.

And at least you're consistent: Back to the ad hominem attack.

[NDSU grad]

An interesting note: the sioux men's basketball has the same number of African-American coaches as the women's team (two). Let's assume that the bison students were riding the coaches just as hard during the men's game as they were the women's game. From this I would conclude that either Rich Glas has much better control over his coaches than does Gene Roebuck, or the women's assistant coaches were simply pissed off because they lost the game.

[The Sicatoka]

NDSU_grad:

Fair ponderings. They could be good questions to pose of the Athletic Director.

Another possible? Not to be too un-PC, but women, in general, are more sensitive to verbal abuse as well as unexpected, undesired, and unwarranted physical contact.

[NDSU grad]

Good point. As far as the alleged touching/pushing incident. If it comes out that an NDSU student was responsible for instigating this incident, I could not expect a fellow coach to restrain himself in this instance. However, in the case of verbal abuse, IF what was said was "nice afro", along with other things to get under the skin of Sioux coaches, the assistants have to learn to handle these situations with more class and dignity.

[The Sicatoka]

I understand the "class and dignity" thing, but if the coaches could stand a little upgrade in the decorum category (regarding verbal abuse), so could the NDSU fans. I only say that because this is twice in six months (UND, MSU-Mankato) for NDSU crowds.

(Before folks jump back at me, there are things UND crowds do I wish would change.)

[UND92,96]

The bottom line to me is that if the seats immediately behind the opposing team's bench are reserved for fans of that school--as is done at UND--you don't have anywhere near these kinds of problems. If somebody is heckling you from 50 or 100 feet away, that's one thing. But when that person is 5-10 feet away and practically in the coach's face, it's a little different. I imagine if a large group of UND students were sitting 5 feet behind Amy Ruley, things would get pretty ugly, too. Fortunately, UND reserves that section for fans of the visiting team. I don't think it's too much to ask for NDSU to do the same.

[tony]

Classic.

Sicatoka: Silence by media means (a) it wasn't newsworthy, (b) they didn't know about it, or c) it didn't happen. Which is it? I don't know.

Me: It's not c) since I saw it. It didn't make the news because NDSU's coaching staff didn't whine about it during their press conference and UND's administration didn't see fit to make any comment on the issue.

Sicatoka: Reporting, objective reporting of fact, lends to credibility of a story.

Me: BWAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAA! And ignorance is bliss.

Sicatoka: One hundred thousand dollars is a lot of public money to be "swept under the rug" (no reporting) by anyone.

Me: It was reported. It was not attributed to UND fans that I know of.

Sicatoka: Like I said earlier, if Roebuck et al were out of line with statements Saturday, NDSU should ask for an apology in return when they apologize to UND for Saturday's events.

Me: AAARGH. NDSU should ask for an apology? Why? Man, NDSU shouldn't be worrying about the activities of UND's coaches, UND should. And what exactly should NDSU be apologizing to UND for again? How would you like that worded?

Sicatoka: And at least you're consistent: Back to the ad hominem attack.

Me: Don't use phrases that you don't understand. Anyway, do I frequently make ad hominem "attacks"? Mind you, I'm not calling you a clown to support or counter an argument, unless you think that blurting out "Vast Fighting Sioux Conspiracy" constitutes an argument of some sort. If that's the case, don't forget the big red nose and floppy shoes

Sicatoka: Not to be too un-PC, but women, in general, are more sensitive to verbal abuse as well as unexpected, undesired, and unwarranted physical contact

Me: Oh Sweet Irony! A UND fan makes a sexist remark on a world-wide forum! I demand that UND apologize to NDSU, to the women of the world, and to the educational system in general. Oh wait, I forget, you're being consistent - you never say anything unless it's phrased as a question because in Weasel World that means you can say anything you want with perfect impunity.

Here's a thought, instead of just covering up the problem by moving the student section, why not educate the students on proper conduct and enforce it? If the NDSU student senate can't agree that students should stop making comments about Roebuck's mustache and whatnot, then move them.

[The Sicatoka]

Oh tony,

OK, you saw it, and I'll trust you, so it's (a) or (b). Are you media? If not, then (b) is still possible.

Yes, reporting, objective reporting of fact, lends to credibility of a story. Both of us have proven to be far from objective. What happened? Who did it? Why didn't NDSU report it, all of it, to the media?

WDAY-TV and KFGO-AM reported (Sunday night and Monday morning) that a letter of apology would be coming from the fan in question and NDSU Athletics to the University of North Dakota. As far as wording, ask Mr. Taylor how he'll be wording it. There has yet to be a challenge to the assertion that a male fan touched a female coach after the womens game.

Even more ad hominem. The "TVFS" comment was to point out the flaw in the logic. Wouldn't the "hometown" newspaper just love to pile onto the hated rival, yet they miss the opportunity?

I didn't ask a question. I stated a generalization that I expect the great majority of people that read it would agree with. For the record, "NDSU grad" referred to it with a "good point" comment. (I'll decline the chance to steal a page and excuse it away with "toughen up" and "show some class and dignity" as has been attempted with other statements.)

You're so testy, tony. What's wrong? Either you are frustrated that NDSU has gotten this type of publicity twice in six months or, I'd guess, somebody either stole or maladjusted your new chair.

Here's a thought, instead of just covering up the problem by moving the student section, why not educate the students on proper conduct and enforce it?

Finally, something we agree on. And if you believe fans in Grand Forks are just as problematic (from your allegations) as those at NDSU (this event, the MSU-Mankato event), then have NDSU point things out in and to the media as UND did. Nothing changes otherwise.

According to the Fargo Forum, Mr. Taylor will be looking at seating arrangements at NDSU.

[UND92,96]

Here's a thought, instead of just covering up the problem by moving the student section, why not educate the students on proper conduct and enforce it? If the NDSU student senate can't agree that students should stop making comments about Roebuck's mustache and whatnot, then move them.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Why not educate students as to what is and what is not appropriate behavior, while at the same time moving them from immediately behind the opposing team's bench so that those who aren't willing to be educated can't do as much damage?

[JBB]

An interesting note:  the sioux men's basketball has the same number of African-American coaches as the women's team (two).  Let's assume that the bison students were riding the coaches just as hard during the men's game as they were the women's game.  From this I would conclude that either Rich Glas has much better control over his coaches than does Gene Roebuck, or the women's assistant coaches were simply pissed off because they lost the game.

This is right back to the point I made originally. The coaches for the GFC (Grand forks collegiate) BB team were not prepaired to handle this situation. Everyone agrees it was out of hand, but at the first hint that they were uncomfortable with their relationship with the crowd secruity should have been called. Several Secruity officers between the crowd and the bench would have taken care of it.

NDSU_grad:

Fair ponderings. They could be good questions to pose of the Athletic Director.

Another possible? Not to be too un-PC, but women, in general, are more sensitive to verbal abuse as well as unexpected, undesired, and unwarranted physical contact.

NDSU grad

I think its clear your starting to get the point.

Unfortuanetly you come off very poorly with your final remark. Human dignity and respect are not gender specific. Your remark indicates to me that you feel your women coaches need more training in situation logistics and personal control. I feel your entire coaching staff, mens and womens, should receive some continuing ed in that area. They are totally oblivious to their accountability and incompetance in that situation.

[The Sicatoka]

JBB said:

I feel your entire coaching staff, mens and womens, should receive some continuing ed in that area. They are totally oblivious to their accountability and incompetance in that situation.

You must have missed this.

I understand the "class and dignity" thing, but if the coaches could stand a little upgrade in the decorum category (regarding verbal abuse), so could the NDSU fans. I only say that because this is twice in six months (UND, MSU-Mankato) for NDSU crowds.

(Before folks jump back at me, there are things UND crowds do I wish would change.)

[bisonguy]

The "seat carnage" incident at the Fargodome did make the media in Fargo. I remember an article in The Forum, and I think there was something on the news, as well. This incident goes back a decade, and I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning, so the details might be somewhat "fuzzy". I believe it happened in Section 28 or 29 in the north endzone, where most of the UND students were during the game. At that time the NDSU student section was in the south endzone, so the UND students were believed to be the culprits.

[The Sicatoka]

As far as my remarks, yes, "more sensitive," because of history. The UND coach was sensitive of the alleged "Afro" comment because of her race, and because of history.

Guess what, I knew I was on the edge. (See the comment. I was the one that first pointed it out.) If you folks think it's that bad, right here, right now, "Dear World, I apologize that statement. I'll watch myself more closely from now on."

Can I expect the same of some NDSU fans attending events? Will others (some NDSU fans in this case) accept that they may be on (or beyond) the edge and start to watch themselves? Well, the first data point, MSU-Mankato to now, isn't good. The root cause in each situation is (sadly) unchanged. Again, I wish Mr. Taylor the best in handling it.

By the way, GFC is "Grand Forks Central."

[Siouxrock]

by the way GFRR is grand forks red river

and i want to no y everytime we go there there is racial stuff goin on and no security?

why is that?

[star2city]

From a secondhand source (my elderly parents), I understand Gene Roebuck was interviewed by a Grand Forks radio station today.

The following intersperses the NDSU student newspaper Spectrum article with my own commentary:

What the Sports Geek wants to talk about is the lack of respect shown to the fans by UND coaches during the game and why these incidents are not being investigated.

One incident, which was witnessed by Director of Athletics Gene Taylor, did not draw even the slightest bit of news coverage this morning, simply because the Sports Geek did not report it. But we shall dip into that one in a minute.

First, coaches and players are going to be harassed by an opposing crowd; its part of a home court advantage.

My parents reported that Gene said his players and coaches were constantly being harassed, including being touched, students getting into their faces, and students interferring with huddles. The smell of alcohol was prevalent among the student perpetrators. The women were referred to as b***ches and wh*res.

The Sports Geek does not understand why some UND coaches did not expect this. Coaches with class will not let fans get to them under any circumstances.

When the game is near over, and a student yells to a Division II head coach,

[bisonguy]

star2city,

In one word, NO!

It's obviously the case of two opinions. Neither one 100% correct, neither one right or wrong. Two differing shades of gray.

A few counterpoints on Gene Roebuck's interview, for the sake of discussion (I.E. These may or may not be my opinions):

My parents reported that Gene said his players and coaches were constantly being harassed, including being touched, students getting into their faces, and students interferring with huddles. The smell of alcohol was prevalent among the student perpetrators. The women were referred to as b***ches and wh*res.

constantly being harrassed- Doubtful. Persistently, maybe. The students were cheering for NDSU sometimes.

students getting into their faces- Shouldn't the coaches' faces be looking towards the game? I didn't see any students run onto the court and get into their faces. The students may have been yelling at the back of their heads, but were not in their faces.

The smell of alcohol was prevalent among the student perpetrators.-That sure is suprising. Most obnoxious fans at sporting events usually are.

The women were referred to as b***ches and wh*res- I also hear a lot of that in rap music and on TV. I also have heard it used a lot by younger guys after a few drinks at the local pubs. This one should maybe be blamed upon the movie and music industries.

Gene reportedly asked for additional help in controlling the crowd. One of the scorers on the table was smiling, apparently just loving the harassment the Sioux women were getting.

Gene reportedly asked for additional help in controlling the crowd.- Did he or didn't he? Who did he ask? What did they say? Were they in a position to do anything or just some peon, unable to help?

One of the scorers on the table was smiling, apparently just loving the harassment the Sioux women were getting.- That's some great speculation. Maybe she was thinking of her kids, husband, new car, flowers, cookies, puppies, or one of a million other things that could make someone smile. Hell, maybe she was happy for the comeback the Bison were starting.

If players are being spat upon, should this be allowed? If a coach asks for personal protection of his players, that they not be touched, is that too much to ask? If a women's body parts are being pointed out, would not some sense of decency be lost? If a black female coach, who has been referred to as a wh**e, now receives a comment by the same person, such as,

[PCM]

Gene Roebuck was on the UND coaches show Wednesday night and here are some of his comments that I summarized.

A drunk fan put his arm forcefully around Sioux assistant coach Shannon Baugh and asked her how it felt to be coach of a team that sucked. The guy's brother was around, which apprently made him feel brave until assistant coach Travis Brewster took off his coat and asked the drunk to step outside.

Roebuck said the worst part was fans getting right into the faces of the coaches and players. He said that during the game, NDSU fans were also tapping UND players on the shoulders and calling them "sluts and whores." He mentioned that there was an administrator sitting at the scoring table who was smiling and laughing all the time these things were going on.

Roebuck said none of this should be happening and that he's never encountered anything like it at any other school. He also said that he thinks NDSU will take steps to see that it doesn't happen again. He said there are clever ways to intimidate a team without being "downright belligerent." He said he thought it was funny during one game when a bunch of NDSU students dressed up like him.

Roebuck said that for 40-some minutes, someone three feet away yelling in his ear. Scott Swygmann noted the they had to cut their pregame short because the NDSU fans around them were getting nasty.

Tim Hennessy and Roebuck got into a bit of a debate about fans of other teams yelling "Sioux suck." Roebuck said that out of respect for Native Americans, nobody who lives in North Dakota should do that. Hennessy said that you can't let UND students yell "Bison suck!" or "Mavericks suck!" and then tell fans of other teams that they can't yell "Sioux suck!"

[star2city]

He (Roebuck) said that during the game, NDSU fans were also tapping UND players on the shoulders and calling them "sluts and whores."

The Bison Sports Geek from the Spectrum implies that Gene Taylor was near the Sioux bench during the entire game. Touching the women players by NDSU drunks was allowed to continue until there was a verbal altercation. Only then did Taylor move someone behind the Sioux bench. Taylor clearly had the power to stop it earlier. Absolutely pathetic. If Gene desires any kind of future, he should stand up to women like Amy Ruley and the Women

[BisonMav]

star2city: Maybe you should take it to the NCC Commissioner. It does not look like NDSU is going to take the actions or make all the changes you require. If that does not work, there is the NCAA.

[JBB]

What a laugh. The GFCA BB team has coaches that cant cope. So now the world will stop and listen to their righteous whining and gnashing of teeth. Let their fans join in, its what they do best.

The Mankato coach is in the same boat. All coaches need to be skilled in situational conflict control. Interacting with the crowd, which is what both the GF college coaches and the Mankato coaches/players did, is wrong. This type of unsophisticated-dare I say hayseed- behavior could easily be changed by providing training to these unskilled individuals.

With this in mind I am advocating no more competition between the schools after this season. GF college athletics as a whole is too arrogant and aggressive to be considered a respectful opponent. NDSU should not dignify their lack of sophistication with competition. We have much more on our platter than the need to play a Grand Forks college team at any sport.

[PCM]

So if there's no problem at NDSU, why is Gene Taylor telling Roebuck that they need to make changes? In fact, Roebuck was quite complimentary toward Taylor's willingness to make sure that what happened at the game never happens again.

[The Sicatoka]

From Monday's Fargo Forum:

Taylor said, NDSU

[teamsioux]

I looked at the tape of the game and yes Gene Taylor was sitting right there for the game. I am sure that he is the official that Roebuck was talking about. NDSU's handling of this whole situation is a joke!!! Letting the students get that close is unexcusable. I think fans can get away with quite a bit from a distance, but getting into their face is way out of bounds. Every other team in the NCC has a better set-up than NDSU's. How the NDSU AD Dept. didn't see this coming is beyond me.