NDSU's Division I Albatros

[star2city]

So is Sanford Health really going to fork out the sponsorship money for a FargoDome addition? That would really get NDSU athletics out of a big time financial and facility bind. I still don't understand the logistics of how NDSU would remodel the BSA for basketball, and yet still have a practice and game facility when the year-long remodeling actually occurs.

Which is gonna happen first: a UND indoor football/track facility or an NDSU basketball facility?

If the football facility came first, how much more would bison fans be sweating, even outside the BSA?

[The Sicatoka]

Given the national health care debate, and the recent questions about the stewardship of premiums at BC/BS of ND, why would Sanford MeritCare want to open themselves up to all of the questions that would come with that sort of fiscal outlay?

[star2city]

Given the national health care debate, and the recent questions about the stewardship of premiums at BC/BS of ND, why would Sanford MeritCare want to open themselves up to all of the questions that would come with that sort of fiscal outlay?

A rumor has the benefactor being T Denny Sanford, not Sanford-Meritcare itself. Chapman pissed off the last couple million-dollar donors with poor stewardship of donations that muddied up their philanthropic legacies, so the Foundation chose to remove the problem?

[Hammersmith]

So is Sanford Health really going to fork out the sponsorship money for a FargoDome addition? That would really get NDSU athletics out of a big time financial and facility bind. I still don't understand the logistics of how NDSU would remodel the BSA for basketball, and yet still have a practice and game facility when the year-long remodeling actually occurs.

Which is gonna happen first: a UND indoor football/track facility or an NDSU basketball facility?

If the football facility came first, how much more would bison fans be sweating, even outside the BSA?

That one is pretty easy. Part of the BSA remodel includes an addition for two BB practice courts on the SW corner. I think they've already moved the BB locker rooms over in preperation for the addition(MBB at least, with WBB coming soon if not already done). The addition could quickly be done first to create space for practice(it would really just be a shell with courts and hoops). As for the game facility, I have no doubt the games would be moved to the Fargodome for a single season if needed. We've also got the BBF for additional practice space or small-game space if absolutely needed. With the new seating and the full court hoops still installed, it could function in a pinch if there were a FD conflict. The court is painted for VB, but that's easy enough to fix if required. Of course the best option is still the FD addition, but who knows if that will happen within 5-7 years?

As for which facility will be done first, that's still up in the air. Both schools have two options in front of them, and I don't think either school has committed to one yet. We've actually got part of the money in the bank, but your project will be cheaper. Neither school seems to have started a big fundraising push(probably because they haven't chosen which option they are going with), so that will probably be the deciding factor. If you guys go for the cheap option(renovate the old facility) and we go for the whole thing(BSA + FD arena), then yours will probably be done first. If you go for a new facility and we do a cheaper remodel of the BSA, then I think we will be the first online. If both schools go cheap or both go expensive, then I think it's a toss-up. On the low end, both schools need to raise about $15 million in a bad economy. I don't think we'll know anything until mailings go out to the respective fanbases asking for donations.

edit: Thinking about it some more, I don't even know if the Fargodome would be needed for a BSA remodel. The two planned additions to the BSA are the BB practice facility and a new weight room. If those were started as soon as the ground thawed in the spring, they would probably be ready by mid-summer, if not earlier. As for the arena half of the building, there should be a 7-month window for construction without disrupting the different sports. Basketball and indoor track seasons end in March, and wrestling, basketball and indoor track begin the following November. If the amount of structual changes to that part of the building are minimized, they might be able to squeeze construction in that window(with good general- and sub-contractors). If there are any major structural changes or too many minor ones, however, then I doubt 7 months would be enough. I'm thinking it will just be a gut job with new seating, track surface, lights and sound. If they plan to move columns, bump out walls, lower the floor, etc., then all bets are off.

[MplsBison]

My dream scenario would be for a new Fargodome addition to include a bball practice facility, which includes new locker rooms, offices, meeting rooms, training rooms, etc.

I don't like the idea of the practice facility being part of the BSA and then the Dome addition being the gameday facility.

[darell1976]

My dream scenario would be for a new Fargodome addition to include a bball practice facility, which includes new locker rooms, offices, meeting rooms, training rooms, etc.

I don't like the idea of the practice facility being part of the BSA and then the Dome addition being the gameday facility.

Maybe a huge tunnel or walkway from the dome to the BSA so you can have football then bball.

[star2city]

That one is pretty easy. Part of the BSA remodel includes an addition for two BB practice courts on the SW corner. I think they've already moved the BB locker rooms over in preperation for the addition(MBB at least, with WBB coming soon if not already done). The addition could quickly be done first to create space for practice(it would really just be a shell with courts and hoops). As for the game facility, I have no doubt the games would be moved to the Fargodome for a single season if needed. We've also got the BBF for additional practice space or small-game space if absolutely needed. With the new seating and the full court hoops still installed, it could function in a pinch if there were a FD conflict. The court is painted for VB, but that's easy enough to fix if required. Of course the best option is still the FD addition, but who knows if that will happen within 5-7 years?

As for which facility will be done first, that's still up in the air. Both schools have two options in front of them, and I don't think either school has committed to one yet. We've actually got part of the money in the bank, but your project will be cheaper. Neither school seems to have started a big fundraising push(probably because they haven't chosen which option they are going with), so that will probably be the deciding factor. If you guys go for the cheap option(renovate the old facility) and we go for the whole thing(BSA + FD arena), then yours will probably be done first. If you go for a new facility and we do a cheaper remodel of the BSA, then I think we will be the first online. If both schools go cheap or both go expensive, then I think it's a toss-up. On the low end, both schools need to raise about $15 million in a bad economy. I don't think we'll know anything until mailings go out to the respective fanbases asking for donations.

edit: Thinking about it some more, I don't even know if the Fargodome would be needed for a BSA remodel. The two planned additions to the BSA are the BB practice facility and a new weight room. If those were started as soon as the ground thawed in the spring, they would probably be ready by mid-summer, if not earlier. As for the arena half of the building, there should be a 7-month window for construction without disrupting the different sports. Basketball and indoor track seasons end in March, and wrestling, basketball and indoor track begin the following November. If the amount of structual changes to that part of the building are minimized, they might be able to squeeze construction in that window(with good general- and sub-contractors). If there are any major structural changes or too many minor ones, however, then I doubt 7 months would be enough. I'm thinking it will just be a gut job with new seating, track surface, lights and sound. If they plan to move columns, bump out walls, lower the floor, etc., then all bets are off.

Thanks. Forgot about the BB practice facility. I assumed that the floor on the BSA would be lowered, so construction would take more than one year. Besides the FargoDome, there's probably also the option of the Urban Plains Center. It would be off-campus, but for one year it would possibly be doable.

[Hammersmith]

Maybe a huge tunnel or walkway from the dome to the BSA so you can have football then bball.

That's not as outrageous as you might think. The two facilities are close to begin with, and the proposed FD arena would shrink the gap even more. A tunnel connecting the two would need to be a bit over 100 yards long. If the FD arena is built, the parking lot in that area will need to be reconfigured, so cut-and-covering that section would be easy. And the road separating the facilities is in terrible shape and needs to be rebuilt within the next decade anyway. Of course, I'm talking about a relatively small tunnel meant for team use and the movement of equipment. If you're talking about a tunnel big enough for 6,000 fans to make the trek from a football game to a basketball game at the BSA, then I see the absurdity.

I do disagree with Mpls about making the BB practice facility part of the FD arena. I really can't think of a single positive for doing it that way and a whole slew of negatives. I wish the football offices had never been moved into the Fargodome, but I understand why it happened. They were originally meant to be part of the BSA renovation, but that was delayed so long that an alternative had to be found. The BSA for basketball is barely adequate, but the space under the Dacotah Field stands wasn't even close. They HAD to find a new home and quickly. After a BSA renovation, moving to the basement of the FD was the next best choice.

I think there's a real value in keeping the support systems of as many sports as possible under one roof. I believe splitting up the sports would cause fragmentation among the coaches, athletes and staff. If the FB team and the BB teams each have their own training facilities that are newer and much better equipped than the rest of the sports, what message does that send? <cough>REA<cough> What about the effects of splitting your strength and conditioning staff over several buildings? Wouldn't it be better to keep them all together in one location where they can support each other and allow for greater specialization? And sharing facilities can create greater camaraderie within the family. If the football team never sees the volleyball team because they spend all their time in different facilities, what are the chances that they'll get to know each other well enough to show up at each other's games? If they all use the same facilities to work out, rehab, study, eat, etc., there's a much greater chance the teams will become friends. That doesn't mean all groups should use the same space for practice (most sports should have separate spaces to work as a team), but all the other stuff can be shared as long as it's built big enough.

[MplsBison]

That's not as outrageous as you might think. The two facilities are close to begin with, and the proposed FD arena would shrink the gap even more. A tunnel connecting the two would need to be a bit over 100 yards long. If the FD arena is built, the parking lot in that area will need to be reconfigured, so cut-and-covering that section would be easy. And the road separating the facilities is in terrible shape and needs to be rebuilt within the next decade anyway. Of course, I'm talking about a relatively small tunnel meant for team use and the movement of equipment. If you're talking about a tunnel big enough for 6,000 fans to make the trek from a football game to a basketball game at the BSA, then I see the absurdity.

I do disagree with Mpls about making the BB practice facility part of the FD arena. I really can't think of a single positive for doing it that way and a whole slew of negatives. I wish the football offices had never been moved into the Fargodome, but I understand why it happened. They were originally meant to be part of the BSA renovation, but that was delayed so long that an alternative had to be found. The BSA for basketball is barely adequate, but the space under the Dacotah Field stands wasn't even close. They HAD to find a new home and quickly. After a BSA renovation, moving to the basement of the FD was the next best choice.

I think there's a real value in keeping the support systems of as many sports as possible under one roof. I believe splitting up the sports would cause fragmentation among the coaches, athletes and staff. If the FB team and the BB teams each have their own training facilities that are newer and much better equipped than the rest of the sports, what message does that send? <cough>REA<cough> What about the effects of splitting your strength and conditioning staff over several buildings? Wouldn't it be better to keep them all together in one location where they can support each other and allow for greater specialization? And sharing facilities can create greater camaraderie within the family. If the football team never sees the volleyball team because they spend all their time in different facilities, what are the chances that they'll get to know each other well enough to show up at each other's games? If they all use the same facilities to work out, rehab, study, eat, etc., there's a much greater chance the teams will become friends. That doesn't mean all groups should use the same space for practice (most sports should have separate spaces to work as a team), but all the other stuff can be shared as long as it's built big enough.

NDSU athletic support facilities:

Academics: none

Nutrition: none

Training: BSA has a training room for all sports, Fargodome has a football only-training room that is only used during football season

Strength: BSA has the only weight room for all sports

None of that would change by attaching 2 practice bball courts and bball lockers/meeting rooms/coach's offices to a new Fargodome addition.

And volleyball locker rooms/practice facilities are located in the BBFH, away from the rest of the sports already.

Hammer, you're wrong this time.

[The Sicatoka]

And the road separating the facilities is in terrible shape and needs to be rebuilt within the next decade anyway.

I think that's been done already. That's the only street concrete in north Fargo without a pothole.

[star2city]

NDSU athletic support facilities:

Academics: none

Nutrition: none

Training: BSA has a training room for all sports, Fargodome has a football only-training room that is only used during football season

Strength: BSA has the only weight room for all sports

None of that would change by attaching 2 practice bball courts and bball lockers/meeting rooms/coach's offices to a new Fargodome addition.

And volleyball locker rooms/practice facilities are located in the BBFH, away from the rest of the sports already.

Hammer, you're wrong this time.

For UND, please correct me if I'm mistaken:

Academics: check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop)

Nutrition:

Training: Check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop, and Memorial?)

Strength: Check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop, Memorial)

I think there's a real value in keeping the support systems of as many sports as possible under one roof. I believe splitting up the sports would cause fragmentation among the coaches, athletes and staff. If the FB team and the BB teams each have their own training facilities that are newer and much better equipped than the rest of the sports, what message does that send? <cough>REA<cough> What about the effects of splitting your strength and conditioning staff over several buildings? Wouldn't it be better to keep them all together in one location where they can support each other and allow for greater specialization? And sharing facilities can create greater camaraderie within the family. If the football team never sees the volleyball team because they spend all their time in different facilities, what are the chances that they'll get to know each other well enough to show up at each other's games? If they all use the same facilities to work out, rehab, study, eat, etc., there's a much greater chance the teams will become friends.

Would agree with some of your comments with regards to UND as it seems physically structured like this: M&W hockey, M&W BB + VB + Soccer, FB, Baseball/Softball/T&F/CC/Golf and Swimming, with Tennis elsewhere. With a wider range of sports and venues relative to NDSU, it can't be avoided. However, doesn't NDSU FB have substantilly better strenght, meeting, and study areas relative to all other teams?

[FargoBison]

The football team trains at the BSA, but they do have superior meeting rooms and coaching offices. Of course that is supposed to be equalized when the BSA gets remodeled...

[MplsBison]

I think that's been done already. That's the only street concrete in north Fargo without a pothole.

Yes...17th? or whatever ave that is looks much better since they rebuilt it a few years ago.

[MplsBison]

For UND, please correct me if I'm mistaken:

Academics: check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop)

Nutrition:

Training: Check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop, and Memorial?)

Strength: Check (@ Ralph, Betty, Hyslop, Memorial)

Would agree with some of your comments with regards to UND as it seems physically structured like this: M&W hockey, M&W BB + VB + Soccer, FB, Baseball/Softball/T&F/CC/Golf and Swimming, with Tennis elsewhere. With a wider range of sports and venues relative to NDSU, it can't be avoided. However, doesn't NDSU FB have substantilly better strenght, meeting, and study areas relative to all other teams?

Not really.

The only impressive things about the FB facilities relative to the rest of NDSU's athletic facilities would be the Fargodome itself, the Coach's offices in the Fargodome and the auditorium in the Fargodome basement (with "NDSU football" on the chairs and walls). The Dome was built by the city..for the city. NDSU football has grown and prospered (for the most part) in the Dome. The coach's officies are 100% first class all the way. They rival any coach's football office complex in the nation (that is not an understatement at all). The auditorium is the same way.

Everything else about the NDSU FB facilities are average to above-average compared with FCS.

The football team has no special weight room or study area. They use the same as all other teams.

My new dream for NDSU football is to see a 25k outdoor stadium built where the current "R" lot is (15th and Albrecht) that has one of those end-zone football facilities with everything in it. Something like what Northern Illinois has.

[Hammersmith]

Now that it's official, we can bring up this thread one last time before closing it out. In about three hours, NDSU and Sanford will be announcing a $36 million donation from Sanford and several others. $31 million will go into the BSA, about $3 million will go into a indoor track facility just west of Dacotah Field, and about $2 million will go to paying off the Development Foundation loan that helped pay for the football office complex in the Fargodome. Details will come at 2:00, but construction will almost certainly begin this winter or spring.

[MplsBison]

Now that it's official, we can bring up this thread one last time before closing it out. In about three hours, NDSU and Sanford will be announcing a $36 million donation from Sanford and several others. $31 million will go into the BSA, about $3 million will go into a indoor track facility just west of Dacotah Field, and about $2 million will go to paying off the Development Foundation loan that helped pay for the football office complex in the Fargodome. Details will come at 2:00, but construction will almost certainly begin this winter or spring.

Too bad we couldn't get enough to build a true indoor practice facility (the ones that have a 300m track with an almost full sized football field in the middle).

At $3 million, it will be just enough for a structure and a 200m oval, probably not even banked. In other words, just taking what's in the BSA already and moving it to an out-building. And all that to lose the tennis courts, which are used by the students (not by the athletic dept).

[star2city]

Now that it's official, we can bring up this thread one last time before closing it out. In about three hours, NDSU and Sanford will be announcing a $36 million donation from Sanford and several others. $31 million will go into the BSA, about $3 million will go into a indoor track facility just west of Dacotah Field, and about $2 million will go to paying off the Development Foundation loan that helped pay for the football office complex in the Fargodome. Details will come at 2:00, but construction will almost certainly begin this winter or spring.

Congratulations to NDSU on their long-belated BSA announcement.

But wow. This thread must have caused you a huge amount of psychological drama. Truly, I'm glad you are feeling better.

For your own health, don't be looking at the news next week when UND has it's homecoming announcement.

[Hammersmith]

Too bad we couldn't get enough to build a true indoor practice facility (the ones that have a 300m track with an almost full sized football field in the middle).

At $3 million, it will be just enough for a structure and a 200m oval, probably not even banked. In other words, just taking what's in the BSA already and moving it to an out-building. And all that to lose the tennis courts, which are used by the students (not by the athletic dept).

The tennis courts needed to be moved anyway. They are in horrible condition and isolated from the rest of the general student facilities. Maybe they can find a way to build four new courts close to the wellness center. Maybe as part of a recreational swimming addition at some point.

As for the size and lack of a football field in the middle, I've got no problem with that. We can throw a bubble over Dacotah in the short-term(it will now be protected on three sides), and one field could be permanently enclosed at some point in the future when they tear down the north stands and flip the fields N/S. In the long-term, having specialized facilities will be better than one facility trying to do everything(a major complaint with today's BSA). And I'm pretty sure the track is going to be banked; we'll know for sure in a couple hours.

[MplsBison]

The tennis courts needed to be moved anyway. They are in horrible condition and isolated from the rest of the general student facilities. Maybe they can find a way to build four new courts close to the wellness center. Maybe as part of a recreational swimming addition at some point.

As for the size and lack of a football field in the middle, I've got no problem with that. We can throw a bubble over Dacotah in the short-term(it will now be protected on three sides), and one field could be permanently enclosed at some point in the future when they tear down the north stands and flip the fields N/S. In the long-term, having specialized facilities will be better than one facility trying to do everything(a major complaint with today's BSA). And I'm pretty sure the track is going to be banked; we'll know for sure in a couple hours.

Yeah that sounds nice...but it also sounds expensive and a long...long way off. I'd almost rather have the indoor facility sooner rather than wait for all those bells and whistles in 15 years..

And there are a few schools that have the 300m/indoor football field thing. Off the top of my head I know Akron built one and Youngstown St is building one or has built one. That's about NDSU's level, I think. When I think of a separate, dedicated indoor football practice field type of building I mostly think of BCS schools or bigger schools. That would be great if NDSU could eventually get one, but like I say it sounds like a long way off...

[Hammersmith]

Congratulations to NDSU on their long-belated BSA announcement.

But wow. This thread must have caused you a huge amount of psychological drama. Truly, I'm glad you are feeling better.

For your own health, don't be looking at the news next week when UND has it's homecoming announcement.

OMG OMG OMG

You mean the $300 million outdoor football stadium with the retractable roof and solid gold urinals?

Or do you mean the $300 million campus-wide fundraising campaign that has about $30-40 million slated for athletics? (psst, I think it's this one)

Where the heck do you get the psychological drama from? I meant to close the thread down in a housekeeping kind of way. You're the one who started this thing almost four years ago. I figured it was time to finally start closing it off now that it's finally over. BTW, isn't there a promise by you somewhere in this thread that UND would have its indoor practice facility long before NDSU got a renovated BSA? Just asking.

[Hammersmith]

Yeah that sounds nice...but it also sounds expensive and a long...long way off. I'd almost rather have the indoor facility sooner rather than wait for all those bells and whistles in 15 years..

And there are a few schools that have the 300m/indoor football field thing. Off the top of my head I know Akron built one and Youngstown St is building one or has built one. That's about NDSU's level, I think. When I think of a separate, dedicated indoor football practice field type of building I mostly think of BCS schools or bigger schools. That would be great if NDSU could eventually get one, but like I say it sounds like a long way off...

Dammit; browser ate my message. Take two.

Maybe we have different versions of a long way off(seriously, not sarcastically). I could easily see a bubble-enclosed field within 5 years of the BSA project, and a permanently enclosed field within 10. That's short- and mid-term to me. And it's not like we're talking about a massively expensive building here, just a metal shell with a little space for equipment storage. $3-5 million, perhaps? All of the expensive stuff will already be in the Fargodome and BSA. And my comments about a specialized building were more to do with track than football. I know we'll never be an Oregon, but T&F is one of our best sports, and I love that we take it seriously. T&F shouldn't have to share a building with every other team and their cousins when the T&F/CC seasons stretch almost the entire year.

[The Sicatoka]

For your own health, don't be looking at the news next week when UND has it's homecoming announcement.

Or do you mean the $300 million campus-wide fundraising campaign that has about $30-40 million slated for athletics? (psst, I think it's this one)

Patience, Hammer, patience.

One of your numbers may be off a bit.

Tune in October 8, and see ...

[Hammersmith]

Patience, Hammer, patience.

One of your numbers may be off a bit.

Tune in October 8, and see ...

Do you really think(or know) the amount slated for athletics is higher than $40 million? I just can't think of any realistic projects that could consume more money. The IPF will take something like $30 million, correct? I guess a full reno of Hyslop could be on the horizon; that would be at least $20 million. But I think we would have heard about that as part of the facility master plan. I'm pretty sure an outdoor track is on the wish list, but that's not more than a million or two. Same for the soccer, baseball and softball fields. I can't see UND spending more than a couple million on all three combined(and that would include some city/park money). Unless there is going to be a separate category for athletic scholarship endowments, I just can't see the athletic portion of the campaign going beyond $40 million. If some of you know different, can you enlighten a poor fool with a couple hints?

Oh well, after you finish your $300 million campaign, we'll have to do a $500 million one. Then you'll do a $750 million, then we'll do a $1 billion. Then both schools will get sucked into a black hole of our own making. Que sera sera.

[SooToo]

OMG OMG OMG

You mean the $300 million outdoor football stadium with the retractable roof and solid gold urinals?

Or do you mean the $300 million campus-wide fundraising campaign that has about $30-40 million slated for athletics? (psst, I think it's this one)

I meant to close the thread down in a housekeeping kind of way.

Well thanks for tidying up the place, in a smacky, smart-assed kind of way. Right in character with most of your recent "contributions."

But I always enjoy the guessing game around UND's homecoming announcement. With no real knowledge beyond your own, here's my uneducated guess: a $300 million campus-wide campaign including moneys alluded to earlier for the business school and just enough from a single donor -- maybe Sanford, which seems anxious to ingratiate itself to the entire RRV -- to put the campaign for the new indoor training facility over the top.

[The Sicatoka]

$10 million from Sanford Health to NDSU

NDSU is kicking off a $32 million campaign to redo the ugly Morton buil..., er, Bison Sports Arena. Construction to happen in three phases.