2006-2007 ND High School Hockey

[NoDakSioux]

This is where you are wrong. The difference between the east and west this year is more dramatic than most years. I agree that Devils Lake is beatable, but frankly, RR, South and Grafton are worlds above any of the teams in the west. South is probably more talented than RR, but has some "chemistry" problems. They pounded Bismarck, and it was no fluke. RR pasted Minot, and Grafton beat by 3 goals. There is virtually no chance that the top 3 seeds from the east get beat by west teams, and frankly, I will be surprised if any of those games are closer than 4 goals. I expect that Devils Lake or possibly North will be the 4th team coming out of the east. They are both beatable, but if DL is playing its best, they won't lose to Minot, Bismarck or Jamestown. North is at least as good as them, as they beat Bismarck and tied Jamestown. North's top line is very good, they simply don't have the depth. The bottom line is that DL and North should also beat the top seed from the west, but it may be a very good game.

This is not intended to be "west bashing" as I realize that there are years when the west has very good teams, and I also realize that there are good players from the west. In fact, many of the top players in the west would be the top players in the east. However, the depth of the top teams is where they have the advantage. South and RR can roll 4 lines and their 3rd and 4th lines will be better than most 2nd lines in the west. That is reality.

Jamestown beat DL and tied North and beat West Fargo, so i would not be suprised if the #1 from the West beats the #4 from the east this year

[UNDhockey22]

This is where you are wrong. The difference between the east and west this year is more dramatic than most years. I agree that Devils Lake is beatable, but frankly, RR, South and Grafton are worlds above any of the teams in the west. South is probably more talented than RR, but has some "chemistry" problems. They pounded Bismarck, and it was no fluke. RR pasted Minot, and Grafton beat by 3 goals. There is virtually no chance that the top 3 seeds from the east get beat by west teams, and frankly, I will be surprised if any of those games are closer than 4 goals. I expect that Devils Lake or possibly North will be the 4th team coming out of the east. They are both beatable, but if DL is playing its best, they won't lose to Minot, Bismarck or Jamestown. North is at least as good as them, as they beat Bismarck and tied Jamestown. North's top line is very good, they simply don't have the depth. The bottom line is that DL and North should also beat the top seed from the west, but it may be a very good game.

This is not intended to be "west bashing" as I realize that there are years when the west has very good teams, and I also realize that there are good players from the west. In fact, many of the top players in the west would be the top players in the east. However, the depth of the top teams is where they have the advantage. South and RR can roll 4 lines and their 3rd and 4th lines will be better than most 2nd lines in the west. That is reality.

Very good, and very true post. Some may think this statement is outlandish but I believe Fargo North has the top line in the state. They might not have the top 3 players in the state, but they move the puck very well (for the most part) and are always moving. If you would have seen the game against South I think it was fairly apparent to who had the best line in that game. And it was Fargo North.

I don't like the Wests odds if they are banking on Jamestown beating North or DL in the opening game of the state tournement. Jamestown has a history of taking dumb penalties and I would not be surprised to see that take the game out of their hands.

[cold]

I wish they would drop all of the other factors from these awards (Mr. Hockey, Basketball, etc.). There should be an award for the best hockey player in the state, not the best hockey player in the state who also is a perfect citizen and student. If you want a character award, then create a new one. Players should be honored for their hockey skills. It equates to a college graduate who has a 4.0 but no extra activities losing a job to a student with a 3.0 with extra activities. Why are extra activities so important?

If this wasn't high school athletics you might have a point. The premise for high school sports is not to become the best athlete, it's to be the best student athlete. As long as high school hockey is just that then other factors, such as the whole high school part, might have more pull than just pure athleticism and competition,

[UNDhockey22]

If this wasn't high school athletics you might have a point. The premise for high school sports is not to become the best athlete, it's to be the best student athlete. As long as high school hockey is just that then other factors, such as the whole high school part, might have more pull than just pure athleticism and competition,

Good point, Cold. The argument was though, if the award of Mr. Hockey was given to the best hockey player, most other factors should be left out. Because, simply going by the name of the award, it should be given to the best hockey player. But if other factors are considered, some would argue a seperate award should be given to those who excel inside the classroom and are model citizens outside the rink. If the award is intended to be given to the best hockey player (which it is, and is not) then other factors would not be included (grades, criminal record).

[nodak hockey fanatic]

I wish they would drop all of the other factors from these awards (Mr. Hockey, Basketball, etc.). There should be an award for the best hockey player in the state, not the best hockey player in the state who also is a perfect citizen and student. If you want a character award, then create a new one. Players should be honored for their hockey skills. It equates to a college graduate who has a 4.0 but no extra activities losing a job to a student with a 3.0 with extra activities. Why are extra activities so important?

Uh, it's called a well rounded person!

For example, a 3.0 college student who played a sport and had a part-time job is more attractive to a grad program/employer than a 4.0 with nothing else on the resume because that student has learned how to balance his/her time and still succeed. You really can't tell if the 4.0 has.

Many times the 4.0 undergrad student studies way too much. I know that sounds wierd, but in grad school and in a job, you may be required to do much more than just one thing (i.e.: get my 4.0!), and the well rounded student has a much better chance of being able to do that in the real world or difficult grad schools.

A 4.0 student who studies all the time while taking 16-20 credits a semester may fare quite poorly in grad school where the average load is often 32 credits a semester, by the same measurement. If he/she already studies all the time for the 20 credits, where's the time for the other 12? And in a more difficult curriculum! I was on the Alumni advisory board for the out of state school where I got my doctorate for six years, and trust me, this is how admissions people look at it, especially in close call situations.

As for the Mr. Hockey type of awards, remember that HS extra curricular activities are designed to develop well rounded good citizens, that is their mantra. Not to develop tremendously skilled athletes to move to the next levels, nor to win games or titles. That part is up to the athletes themselves. So, it would make sense that awards at that level would follow that mantra as well.

Coaches at the college and professional levels know who the good players are, and those players will have the opportunity to advance. We all know being a skilled player has nothing to do with being a good person. If we are going to continue to give these awards, I am very satisfied with using the whole person, not just the athletic skills part. Just me.

[Stiouxy]

Grafton 4

Red River 3

South 4

Central 2

[soohockey15]

Grafton 4

Red River 3

Welcome back to earth, Riders.

[ND Pride]

Uh, it's called a well rounded person!

For example, a 3.0 college student who played a sport and had a part-time job is more attractive to a grad program/employer than a 4.0 with nothing else on the resume because that student has learned how to balance his/her time and still succeed. You really can't tell if the 4.0 has.

Many times the 4.0 undergrad student studies way too much. I know that sounds wierd, but in grad school and in a job, you may be required to do much more than just one thing (i.e.: get my 4.0!), and the well rounded student has a much better chance of being able to do that in the real world or difficult grad schools.

A 4.0 student who studies all the time while taking 16-20 credits a semester may fare quite poorly in grad school where the average load is often 32 credits a semester, by the same measurement. If he/she already studies all the time for the 20 credits, where's the time for the other 12? And in a more difficult curriculum! I was on the Alumni advisory board for the out of state school where I got my doctorate for six years, and trust me, this is how admissions people look at it, especially in close call situations.

As for the Mr. Hockey type of awards, remember that HS extra curricular activities are designed to develop well rounded good citizens, that is their mantra. Not to develop tremendously skilled athletes to move to the next levels, nor to win games or titles. That part is up to the athletes themselves. So, it would make sense that awards at that level would follow that mantra as well.

Coaches at the college and professional levels know who the good players are, and those players will have the opportunity to advance. We all know being a skilled player has nothing to do with being a good person. If we are going to continue to give these awards, I am very satisfied with using the whole person, not just the athletic skills part. Just me.

Could you clarify something for me please? I have never heard of anyone ever taking 32 credits a semester in graduate school much less than that being an average load.

At most universities your can receive a master's degree for 30 to 40 credits (including thesis credits if a thesis is required). So if what you are saying were true then most students would finish the bulk of their credits for a masters in one semester which is clearly not the case in any graduate program that I have seen. In addition, a doctoral degree is typically around 96 credits post bachelor's so by your analysis you could have your doctorate in 3 to 4 semesters. Could you please clarify if you really inteneded to say that graduate students take 32 credits a semester because I have never heard of such a case. In fact, taking more than 12 credits a semester requires a waiver from the Graduate Dean at some schools.

Also, I agree with your general analysis and logic but have some qualifications on your generalizations. Your comments about a well rounded person are well taken and true. The better grad programs now often do not take students with GPA's of 3.0 but admissions is competitive and 3.4 and up is more the norm especially if you want a tuition waiver or assistantship. Some schools will let in anyone with a 3.0, that is true, but many require higher grades than that especially with some of the grade inflation that takes place. I don't want to negate what you said about being well rounded as I agree with it, but many graduate schools do not gather information on whether you played in a sport or not and most do not care - also, there is no place on the application to put it at some schools. The main concern for grad school admission is academic competence. I would put emotional maturity next but you can only get an indication of that from the letters provided by those who write references. Bottomline, be a well rounded person, diversity your activities (extra curricular activities of any type) but get the best grades that you can get as grad school is a competitive process.

The section in bold below is taken from the UND website for the grad school. An entire program can consist of a minimum of 30 credits so the idea that 32 a semester is possible is out of line. At 3 credits a course that would be over 10 courses a semester which would be clearly impossible. At 4 credits a course it would be eight courses per semester. No quality graduate program would endose such a load.

Thesis Option

Course Requirements. A minimum of 30 semester credits is required in a program of study for the M.A. or M.S. degree in a major field.

[UNDhockey22]

Could you clarify something for me please? I have never heard of anyone ever taking 32 credits a semester in graduate school much less than that being an average load.

At most universities your can receive a master's degree for 30 to 40 credits (including thesis credits if a thesis is required). So if what you are saying were true then most students would finish the bulk of their credits for a masters in one semester which is clearly not the case in any graduate program that I have seen. In addition, a doctoral degree is typically around 96 credits post bachelor's so by your analysis you could have your doctorate in 3 to 4 semesters. Could you please clarify if you really inteneded to say that graduate students take 32 credits a semester because I have never heard of such a case. In fact, taking more than 12 credits a semester requires a waiver from the Graduate Dean at some schools.

Also, I agree with your general analysis and logic but have some qualifications on your generalizations. Your comments about a well rounded person are well taken and true. The better grad programs now often do not take students with GPA's of 3.0 but admissions is competitive and 3.4 and up is more the norm especially if you want a tuition waiver or assistantship. Some schools will let in anyone with a 3.0, that is true, but many require higher grades than that especially with some of the grade inflation that takes place. I don't want to negate what you said about being well rounded as I agree with it, but many graduate schools do not gather information on whether you played in a sport or not and most do not care - also, there is no place on the application to put it at some schools. The main concern for grad school admission is academic competence. I would put emotional maturity next but you can only get an indication of that from the letters provided by those who write references. Bottomline, be a well rounded person, diversity your activities (extra curricular activities of any type) but get the best grades that you can get as grad school is a competitive process.

The section in bold below is taken from the UND website for the grad school. An entire program can consist of a minimum of 30 credits so the idea that 32 a semester is possible is out of line. At 3 credits a course that would be over 10 courses a semester which would be clearly impossible. At 4 credits a course it would be eight courses per semester. No quality graduate program would endose such a load.

Thesis Option

Course Requirements. A minimum of 30 semester credits is required in a program of study for the M.A. or M.S. degree in a major field.

Someone who forgot to research their posts before they type them was just taught how to. Very well stated, NDpride.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

Uh, it's called a well rounded person!

For example, a 3.0 college student who played a sport and had a part-time job is more attractive to a grad program/employer than a 4.0 with nothing else on the resume because that student has learned how to balance his/her time and still succeed. You really can't tell if the 4.0 has.

Many times the 4.0 undergrad student studies way too much. I know that sounds wierd, but in grad school and in a job, you may be required to do much more than just one thing (i.e.: get my 4.0!), and the well rounded student has a much better chance of being able to do that in the real world or difficult grad schools.

A 4.0 student who studies all the time while taking 16-20 credits a semester may fare quite poorly in grad school where the average load is often 32 credits a semester, by the same measurement. If he/she already studies all the time for the 20 credits, where's the time for the other 12? And in a more difficult curriculum! I was on the Alumni advisory board for the out of state school where I got my doctorate for six years, and trust me, this is how admissions people look at it, especially in close call situations.

As for the Mr. Hockey type of awards, remember that HS extra curricular activities are designed to develop well rounded good citizens, that is their mantra. Not to develop tremendously skilled athletes to move to the next levels, nor to win games or titles. That part is up to the athletes themselves. So, it would make sense that awards at that level would follow that mantra as well.

Coaches at the college and professional levels know who the good players are, and those players will have the opportunity to advance. We all know being a skilled player has nothing to do with being a good person. If we are going to continue to give these awards, I am very satisfied with using the whole person, not just the athletic skills part. Just me.

32 credits a semester? The max an undergrad can take is 20 and hardly anyone takes that many. Graduate students very rarely take 16+ credits. Nice post though, very credible. Very well thought out.

[SportsDoc]

32 credits a semester? The max an undergrad can take is 20 and hardly anyone takes that many. Graduate students very rarely take 16+ credits. Nice post though, very credible. Very well thought out.

First, I need to apologize for the name this post was written under. I used someone else's computer and forgot to change the user name that it defaulted too. It was me who posted the response in question here.

Second, if you read closely, I said 32 hours by the same measurement. Meaning in undergrad a 3 credit course (nonlab) typically meets for three hours per week. In my dental curriculum we took about 20 hours, credit wise, each semester the first two years, but that 20 hours required me to be at the school either in class or lab from 8 to noon and then 1 to 5, Monday through Friday. That did not include study time. By typical undergrad measurement that might even exceed 32 credit hours. That was my point for the well rounded student who can do that and still get the studying done in the hours beyond that time in those types of programs.

[UNDhockey22]

First, I need to apologize for the name this post was written under. I used someone else's computer and forgot to change the user name that it defaulted too. It was me who posted the response in question here.

Second, if you read closely, I said 32 hours by the same measurement. Meaning in undergrad a 3 credit course (nonlab) typically meets for three hours per week. In my dental curriculum we took about 20 hours, credit wise, each semester the first two years, but that 20 hours required me to be at the school either in class or lab from 8 to noon and then 1 to 5, Monday through Friday. That did not include study time. By typical undergrad measurement that might even exceed 32 credit hours. That was my point for the well rounded student who can do that and still get the studying done in the hours beyond that time in those types of programs.

You specifically stated in your post that, "A 4.0 student who studies all the time while taking 16-20 credits a semester may fare quite poorly in grad school where the average load is often 32 credits a semester, by the same measurement. If he/she already studies all the time for the 20 credits, where's the time for the other 12?". I never see the word hours anywhere in your previous post.

[SportsDoc]

You specifically stated in your post that, "A 4.0 student who studies all the time while taking 16-20 credits a semester may fare quite poorly in grad school where the average load is often 32 credits a semester, by the same measurement. If he/she already studies all the time for the 20 credits, where's the time for the other 12?". I never see the word hours anywhere in your previous post.

Thank you. I meant credits, not hours. Sorry ... again.

[SportsDoc]

OK guys. Bottineau vs Century JV was not really that. What it was is this, Century screwed up and thought it was for 0 points and were going to play their JV. It turned out that the game was for 2 and Century scrambled to get some Varsity kids dressed. So it was a points game and it was not really Century's JV team it was a mix of Varsity and JV kids.

Bottineau is in the top 4 of the West. And the East, with the exception of Red River is not nearly as far in front of the West as many would like to think. Minot had Grafton tied 2-2 about half way through the third period. And they lost to Devil's Lake on a penalty shot in overtime.

Bottineau is a much improved team this year, and Dave Hoff is an excellent coach. But, they are what they are. And that is the number 7 seed in the West. They are not in the top four. Could they get to State? Yes. But it is a long shot.

Bottineau (according to Bob Gillen's website, which is always quite accurate) has not beaten any of the top 5 teams "officially" and split with #6 Dickinson. I suspect (do not take offense to this, please) that both Minot and Bismarck took them lightly in four point games. Both coaches alluded to such in print. I feel that Bismarck and Minot are the two most talented teams and they are seeded #1 and #2. #3 seed Jamestown beat Bottineau soundly, twice, 7-2 and 6-0. #4 seed Williston beat them twice by identical 4-1 scores.

I'm not rooting against you or Bottineau. The facts don't back up your assertion of a top four team.

[ND Pride]

Thank you. I meant credits, not hours. Sorry ... again.

Well, your original post under someone else's screen name was not a model of clarity. For example, you used the term "grad school." Now typically I do not hear people refer to medical school, law school, or dental school as graduate school. Technically, they fall under the category of professional schools. The term grad school conjures up the image of people slaving to do their master's theses and dissertations in an academic discipline (history, english, psychology, communications, etc.) which is a different sort of animal than the aforementioned professional schools. In any case, you did clarify the point that you were trying to make.

[Labrat]

Not High School Hockey this year, but I heard that Tyler Jundt and Willert had a go at it in juniors. From what I heard Jundt may have broken Willert's nose. Just second hand news, so not sure how true it is. Just thought it was interesting

[ND Pride]

Not High School Hockey this year, but I heard that Tyler Jundt and Willert had a go at it in juniors. From what I heard Jundt may have broken Willert's nose. Just second hand news, so not sure how true it is. Just thought it was interesting

Well, Tri-City did beat Green Bay last night 2-1 in USHL action but Tyler Jundt was not on the game roster for Green Bay. Tyler was on the roster for the previous game with Ohio. Your story seems to be untrue. The teams did play on January 27th but Jundt and Willert did not have any penalties and I would expect that Jundt would have had one if that was a true story. Sounds like a fairy tale.

[Labrat]

Yeah, it wasn't against Willert, it was against Lamoureux, I guess. I don't know much about it, but I guess he got a good shot in. It was Friday, January 26th I guess. Just thought it was interesting, especially since Jundt is definitely not a fighter. I don't know about Lamoureux.

[UNDhockey22]

Yeah, it wasn't against Willert, it was against Lamoureux, I guess. I don't know much about it, but I guess he got a good shot in. It was Friday, January 26th I guess. Just thought it was interesting, especially since Jundt is definitely not a fighter. I don't know about Lamoureux.

Jundt is a big boy. I am not surprised to hear he fought.

[ND Pride]

Jundt is a big boy. I am not surprised to hear he fought.

Well, the two teams did play on the 26th of January and Mario and Tyler both received 5 minute majors for fighting in the 3rd period. Mario will definitely mix it up if needed so no surprise there. Interesting story and with the Mario connection and the penalties I would say you've got the facts on it now.

[ND Sioux123]

I have two questions. How did Pat Arnason not make all-state and how come Danny Wurden did not win Mr. Hockey. These two questions I cannot answer myself and hopefully someone else can give me their perspective on this.

[proudsioux]

I dont think anyone will ever be able to answer these questions. West should be in the junior b division.

[Siouxmama]

I have two questions. How did Pat Arnason not make all-state and how come Danny Wurden not win Mr. Hockey. These two questions I cannot answer myself and hopefully someone else can give me their perspective on this.

Grades??

[proudsioux]

Bottineau prolly juiced up his grades to make him look better. thats what small towns do. trust me. My roomate in college always told me about teachers givin him extra credit or better test grades cuz he was a 3 year starter on the basketball team.

[UNDhockey22]

Bottineau prolly juiced up his grades to make him look better. thats what small towns do. trust me. My roomate in college always told me about teachers givin him extra credit or better test grades cuz he was a 3 year starter on the basketball team.

That could be. Or it could be that the coachs from the East split votes between either Wurden and Miller or Wurden and Everson. And all the West coachs voted for Herbel. That is the only way I can believe Herbel won, even if Wurden is a "C" student.