NHL Fight

[SIOUXELEVENS]

Does this mean I have to be nice to you because I'am feeling very special now after that post.

[THETRIOUXPER]

Does this mean I have to be nice to you because I'am feeling very special now after that post.

Spooning for everyone, Friday night, section 302. Bring your own warm fuzzy pj's.

[Dikaia880]

Why am I wrong about fighting. And why do you keep trying to make me snarl. I like a good fight. I take exception to the fact you think most fans are ignorant. I've met quite a few of the poster's here, not that any of them would actually associate with an asshole like myself, as most of them are real good people. For the most part they all know the game and have been fans for a long time. raynman03, PCM, Siouxman, Sioux-Cia, hockeymom, Siouxfan4life, morely, southpaw, NorthDakotaHockey, 7>4, YaneA, and I know I'm missing a whole bunch more, but they are all quality people.

First off I was joking, because its easy to get a rise out of you.

Second off, I'm not talking about the poster's here, I would expect that most of the people that come here either have a sincere interest in the sport and/or a good knowledge of the game. I never said most fans are ignorant to the game. There are, however, way too many people that the Sioux games because its a Grand Forks social event, not because its a hockey game.

If the nation craves violence, why has professional football outlawed certain types of hits and levied fines against players for excessively violent acts on the field? Why has protection for football players steadily improved over the years? Why hasn't the NFL embraced the idea of fighting and enforcers if they're what fans and players really want? How is it possible that the NFL could reduce the level of violence in pro football and remain as popular as ever, far more popular than the NHL could ever hope to be?

Football has outlawed hits that consistanly lead to injuries. For the most part fighting in hockey does nothing more than causes a few bruises and some bloody noses. Fedoruk is the exception, rather than the rule.

Football is popular because of the physicality of it. If it were a touch football league, they wouldn't have much viewership.

QUOTE

There are a lot of things the NHL needs to change. But I highly doubt that people are going to think to themselves. "You know, I heard the NHL got rid of fighting, I should check out a game."

You're free to doubt it all you want, but you don't know it, and neither do I. However, my anecdotal evidence and 25 years of experience in the PR field tell me that you're most likely wrong.

My education in marketing & sport marketing tell me otherwise. They tell me that the NHL does a horrible overall job in marketing the league and its product. I'm not saying they should marketing fighting, but I highly doubt the amount of fans you would bring in by dropping fighting would be worth the change in the game. Market the physicality of it, market the artisty of it, market the speed and tempo of the game.

If people have a desire to watch a sport, then they'll learn to understand it. If they have no desire to watch a sport, then they're not going to take the time to understand it. You have to get them to watch before you can expect them to understand

Most people I know that do not like the sport have seen a game before. "Oh I tried watching it, but I didn't know what was going on," or this or that. You have to get them to watch and get them to understand the game at the same time. The will not continue to watch it if they do not understand it.

[redwing77]

Football has outlawed hits that consistanly lead to injuries. For the most part fighting in hockey does nothing more than causes a few bruises and some bloody noses. Fedoruk is the exception, rather than the rule.

Question for you then:

If this is the case, should the NHL take steps to prevent teams that have enforcers who cause too many injuries? Sure, most fights don't result in serious injury (serious here defined as any injury that causes a player to miss 1 game or more), but what about those enforcers that DO injure other players? Because that enforcer was playing by that "unwritten code" and the other player "was asking for it" that means we shrug and move on?

Do you HONESTLY think Fedoruk was asking to be injured? Sure, he was obviously wanting to fight, I'll grant you that, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt he was asking to be injured. Please don't lump injuries that are a result of fighting in the same crowd as "Injuries are part of the game" because that's just not true! A big check into the boards that results in injury happens, THAT is part of the game. However, fighting is a voluntary (unless you are demanded to do so by the "unwritten code") action and, though it is accepted as "part of the game," could be avoided and not unduly harm the game. I don't believe that a fight is harmful to the game until it becomes an overriding concern in how the game is played. I don't think a team should have to fear the other based upon how strong their goon is. I don't think a player should have to go out onto the ice and fear that, if I don't do things just right, I'm going to get my face pounded in. This isn't part of the game! Fear of fighting is one thing, but fear of fighting because you might get horrifically injured like Fedoruk is ENTIRELY another thing entirely.

[MafiaMan]

Why am I wrong about fighting. And why do you keep trying to make me snarl. I like a good fight. I take exception to the fact you think most fans are ignorant. I've met quite a few of the poster's here, not that any of them would actually associate with an asshole like myself, as most of them are real good people. For the most part they all know the game and have been fans for a long time. raynman03, PCM, Siouxman, Sioux-Cia, hockeymom, Siouxfan4life, morely, southpaw, NorthDakotaHockey, 7>4, YaneA, and I know I'm missing a whole bunch more, but they are all quality people.

I don't see my name in your list.

[redwing77]

I don't see my name in your list.

You didn't buy him enough beer

[THETRIOUXPER]

dickey said rise, huh huh, uh, huh huh huh. That was cool.

[PCM]

My education in marketing & sport marketing tell me otherwise.

You're an expert in marketing and sport marketing who's never had anyone tell you that they won't watch hockey because of the fighting? Hard to believe.

They tell me that the NHL does a horrible overall job in marketing the league and its product.

That's entirely possible. But I think it's mainly an image problem, not a marketing problem.

Market the physicality of it, market the artisty of it, market the speed and tempo of the game.

As far as I can tell, that's already being done. If the NHL isn't marketing that, what are they marketing?

Most people I know that do not like the sport have seen a game before. "Oh I tried watching it, but I didn't know what was going on," or this or that. You have to get them to watch and get them to understand the game at the same time. The will not continue to watch it if they do not understand it.

Not true. My wife had never been to a hockey game before she saw her first Sioux game. She loved it, and that rekindled my interest in the sport. Because of her, I became a college hockey fan. Likewise, my parents had never seen a hockey game or watched hockey before they attended a game at the old Ralph. They are now hooked on Fighting Sioux hockey and watch every UND game they can.

So, no, I don't buy the idea that it's necessary for someone to understand a sport before becoming becoming interested in it. That seems counter-intuitive to me.

[PCM]

I don't see my name in your list.

He said "quality people." Gosh.

[THETRIOUXPER]

I don't see my name in your list.

Sorry MM. I did say I was missing a bunch more. Definitely add MafiaMan to the list. All apologies again, now when do I get my beer?

[MafiaMan]

He said "quality people." Gosh.

Sorry, I misread "quality" as "fans that like boobs."

[THETRIOUXPER]

Sorry, I misread "quality" as "fans that like boobs."

See, MafiaMan knows how to interpret the secret code.

[PCM]

Sorry, I misread "quality" as "fans that like boobs."

That's where I slipped up. I thought he was saying "fans who aren't boobs."

[Dikaia880]

Do you HONESTLY think Fedoruk was asking to be injured? Sure, he was obviously wanting to fight, I'll grant you that, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt he was asking to be injured

No, but he knew the risk and he took the risk. In a normal situation you're not getting into a fight you don't want to, with that being said most hockey players aren't going to back down from a fight either.

You're an expert in marketing and sport marketing who's never had anyone tell you that they won't watch hockey because of the fighting? Hard to believe

PCM, plus don't read my wrong, I said my education. I do not claim to be an expert in marketing (or anything.) I do have an MBA with a focus in marketing, however, and in my opinion (without primary research or secondary data mind you) I do not believe that the fighting in hockey is the reason hockey is at the level of popularity it is. As you said it is a niche sport, and is marketed as such. The NHL does a poor job of national branding. Individual teams tend to do a good job in marketing, but only in local areas. Television contracts are poor, and the resulting broadcasts are poor. People who don't know the sport have a hard time understanding it on television and don't watch.

Hockey unlike any other major sport is hard to watch on television, it is a game best experienced at an arena. That is one of the biggest humps for the sport. Like I said, Hi-definition will help this immensely.

People who experience games first hand are likely to enjoy it, but you won't build a fan base that way, not to mention getting people in the stands isn't really all that big of a problem is it?

[Dikaia880]

But yeah, like I asked before..

What is the general age around here?

[PCM]

But yeah, like I asked before..

What is the general age around here?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm 308.

[THETRIOUXPER]

But yeah, like I asked before..

What is the general age around here?

Are you doing some kind of marketing/demographic type study or something?

[Slap Shot]

I can see that the NHL is just as popular as it's ever been -- which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot.

Your point? College hockey is viewed by even less people, yet there's no fighting...

[THETRIOUXPER]

Oh good, slappy's here too. This week can't get any better now.

[AZSIOUX]

Oh good, slappy's here too. This week can't get any better now.

[PCM]

I meant to respond to this earlier, but missed including it in my post.

Football has outlawed hits that consistanly lead to injuries.

So why can't hockey do that instead of relying on the false claim that on-ice enforcers limit cheap shots? If it works for the NFL, certainly it will work for the NHL.

Football is popular because of the physicality of it. If it were a touch football league, they wouldn't have much viewership.

That's my whole point. Pro football is a physical, violent sport. The NFL has outlawed hits that cause serious injuries, hits that were legal at one time. The NFL has improved equipment for player safety. The NFL levies fines against and hands out suspensions to players who engage in excessively violent acts on the field. And after doing all that, pro football is as popular as ever.

NFL fans aren't saying, "We sure miss the days when guys like Jack Tatum could use his helmet as a weapon to turn a wide receiver into paraplegic with a single hit. Those were fun times."

And the NFL isn't saying, "Gee, player enforcement of the rules works so well in the NHL and increases fan interest so much that we're going to implement the same wonderful concept in our game."

If I were a professional athlete, I'd feel much safer playing a sport in which the league itself and the officials who enforce the rules of the game looked out for my safety rather than depending on unwritten codes and player-enforced rules that can be ignored or interpreted in any manner that fits the heat of the moment.

[PCM]

Are you doing some kind of marketing/demographic type study or something?

It's probably boob-related research.

[SIOUXELEVENS]

Let the filming begin THETRIOUXPER on you "full" length feature.

[PCM]

Your point? College hockey is viewed by even less people, yet there's no fighting...

You don't think college hockey would be more popular if the NHL were more popular? I think it would.

My point is that college hockey is hurt by the image of professional hockey because most people don't understand the difference. To the average sports fan, hockey is hockey and fighting is a part of hockey.

I'm not saying that minimizing fighting in the NHL would instantly elevate it to the status of the NFL, NBA or MLB. I do think that more people would watch it, however, and I don't think that any fewer people would.

[Dikaia880]

I have not done enough boob research lately...damnit!

PCM Posted Today, 04:52 PM

I meant to respond to this earlier, but missed including it in my post.

QUOTE(Dikaia880 @ Nov 2 2006, 03:16 PM)

Football has outlawed hits that consistanly lead to injuries.

So why can't hockey do that instead of relying on the false claim that on-ice enforcers limit cheap shots? If it works for the NFL, certainly it will work for the NHL.

QUOTE

Football is popular because of the physicality of it. If it were a touch football league, they wouldn't have much viewership.

That's my whole point. Pro football is a physical, violent sport. The NFL has outlawed hits that cause serious injuries, hits that were legal at one time. The NFL has improved equipment for player safety. The NFL levies fines against and hands out suspensions to players who engage in excessively violent acts on the field. And after doing all that, pro football is as popular as ever.

NFL fans aren't saying, "We sure miss the days when guys like Jack Tatum could use his helmet as a weapon to turn a wide receiver into paraplegic with a single hit. Those were fun times."

And the NFL isn't saying, "Gee, player enforcement of the rules works so well in the NHL and increases fan interest so much that we're going to implement the same wonderful concept in our game."

If I were a professional athlete, I'd feel much safer playing a sport in which the league itself and the officials who enforce the rules of the game looked out for my safety rather than depending on unwritten codes and player-enforced rules that can be ignored or interpreted in any manner that fits the heat of the moment.

To answer the first part, don't say its a false claim that fighting and enforcement limits cheap shots. Obvious we can't prove that either way, however, a lot of people understand and see it that way.

When it comes to comparing it to football, you're talking about illegal hits that have ruined many careers. I cannot think of one instance where a fight in hockey has ruined a career. I can think of many cheap shots and illegal hits that have.

You mention if you were a professional athlete you would feel safer. It is very rare to hear a professional hockey player worry about their safety on the ice, even rarer to hear an NHL player say that he's worried about getting hurt in a fight. If they aren't complaining, why would any one else?

Any rule can be ignored in the heat of the moment. Look at the Miami v. Florida International football game a couple weeks ago. I will say this again, the unwritten rules are followed by hockey players 90% of the time, sorry if you do not believe me, but that is the case. Going back to what got me in trouble with triouxper, I don't expect people outside of the game to understand that, but it is truly the case. Obviously there are exceptions, but exceptions happen everywhere in life.

Time for me to go home now, maybe I'll go to the bar for a hockey game and to try to get some further boob research done...