DI IN FARGO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Most recently reported (updated) census figures, Fargo's population decreased. Shut 'er down. Money drain? Hockey? From UND's DI Report (FY05 numbers): Mens Hockey revenues: $4,145,039 Mens Hockey expenses: $3,374,206 Womens Hockey revenues: $267,772 Womens Hockey expenses: $543,527 Do the math: UND Hockey is "net black." Remember your expenses for athletics is certainly going to increase, are these going to be made up all by tuition waivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Most recently reported (updated) census figures, Fargo's population decreased. Shut 'er down. Money drain? Hockey? From UND's DI Report (FY05 numbers): Mens Hockey revenues: $4,145,039 Mens Hockey expenses: $3,374,206 Womens Hockey revenues: $267,772 Womens Hockey expenses: $543,527 Do the math: UND Hockey is "net black." Fargo's population didn't decrease the rate of growth decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't recall Bison fans being so interested in budgets and financial matters when NDSU announced its move to DI. Why is there so much concern about UND's financial situation? If NDSU can raise the funds to make the DI move, isn't there at least a slim possibility that UND can do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't recall Bison fans being so interested in budgets and financial matters when NDSU announced its move to DI. Why is there so much concern about UND's financial situation? If NDSU can raise the funds to make the DI move, isn't there at least a slim possibility that UND can do the same? I would say the only concern NDSU fans have is that the equitable funding formula the state is currenlty using is not in fact equitable for NDSU. If and when UND makes this move with a larger defecit how much money is going to come from the state coffers in effect siphoning money away from other schools? You can poo poo this notion but your financial issues are reason for concern when it in the end affects other schools in the same higher ed system. As to your comment about NDSU fans no being interested in budgets that's completely false. Teammakers has done a tremendous job of increasing giving of its members, UND has no such orginazation that can match that and it will take a tremendous effort on the part of the financial supporters and businesses in gf to sustain the budget needed to be in DI which is why I brought up the issue of the size of the city and the lack of growth which I know you don't want to hear but it is a fact. Are you going to tell me now that gf is larger the Fargo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 The Fighting Sioux Club raised more money than TeamMakers last year. Brookings is smaller than Grand Forks. And finally, from http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=130767 ... Fargo lost 1281 people from 2004 to 2005, a decrease of 1.4 percent, according to US Census Bureau estimates .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Remember your expenses for athletics is certainly going to increase, are these going to be made up all by tuition waivers? Careful there too. Taylor (Chapman?) has brought that notion up to help NDSU athletics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 As to your comment about NDSU fans no being interested in budgets that's completely false. No it's not. I remember a number of posters here raising questions about how NDSU would fund its move to DI, questions very similar to those you're raising now. I don't recall ever getting any answers to those questions. Are you going to tell me now that gf is larger the Fargo? Why would I say that? Are you going to tell me that it's impossible for UND to raise funds from its alumni to cover the cost of a DI move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'd add that NDSU has, does, and will continue to provide significant institutional funding for its athletic programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSU grad Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Its hard to argue with him about his concern for academics. It has to be number one. Makes one wonder what the priorities at UND are? It's bad enough you'd hijack a thread; it's even worse you'd come on a rival's message board and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 The Fighting Sioux Club raised more money than TeamMakers last year. Brookings is smaller than Grand Forks. And finally, from http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=130767 I'd be interested to see where you found those numbers. In researching the US Census Bureau information I only found stats up to 2004 but Cass Co. overall from 2000-2004 had a population increase of 1.1% which was lower then I thought it was but I also noticed only a few counties in the state had an overall population increase of which grand forks was not one of them. The reporting date on this document was 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 It's bad enough you'd hijack a thread; it's even worse you'd come on a rival's message board and do it. I didn't haijack any thread, just pointing out based on comments in the thread already about the financing of the move based on the problems at UNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdog42 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I didn't haijack any thread, just pointing out based on comments in the thread already about the financing of the move based on the problems at UNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'd be interested to see where you found those numbers. July 1, 2005 Census estimates, there were out in the last two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 July 1, 2005 Census estimates, there were out in the last two weeks. And I gave the link. Do a Google search if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobIwabuchiFan Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Can someone help me understand how the Fighting Sioux Club isn't going to be able to meet the necessary funding levels required to compete at DI athletics? The simple truth is that once you guys from Fargo start commenting on the boards that you are so better than Grand Forks/UND you will see quickly how fast the coffers fill...Thanks for doing that by the way because its saves us a lot of money not having to send out mailers! By the way, the UND Hockey Team should never be considered a drain on the state...In fact, its really the only sport that gets ND recognized nationally...Just so you understand, its been doing this for more than 50 years already which seems to be a little longer than NDSU beating Montana or catching lowly Wisconsion on an off night (by the way, its cool you guys finally get to feel how we do when we kick their a#$ on a regular basis in Hockey at the Kohl Center - too bad you won't get to feel that again soon!). BobIwabuchiFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Can someone help me understand how the Fighting Sioux Club isn't going to be able to meet the necessary funding levels required to compete at DI athletics? The simple truth is that once you guys from Fargo start commenting on the boards that you are so better than Grand Forks/UND you will see quickly how fast the coffers fill...Thanks for doing that by the way because its saves us a lot of money not having to send out mailers! By the way, the UND Hockey Team should never be considered a drain on the state...In fact, its really the only sport that gets ND recognized nationally...Just so you understand, its been doing this for more than 50 years already which seems to be a little longer than NDSU beating Montana or catching lowly Wisconsion on an off night (by the way, its cool you guys finally get to feel how we do when we kick their a#$ on a regular basis in Hockey at the Kohl Center - too bad you won't get to feel that again soon!). BobIwabuchiFan Hopefully those big boosters will also take away the need for tuition waivers for the girls hockey team too. Wouldn't want people with so much pride to have to take a state handout, would you? Let them know that they aren't even paying for the girls hockey team yet, maybe that will make them fill the coffers too. I know those boosters are all for "Title IX", and not just football. Oh, and I didn't know you had a hockey team. It would be nice if UND fans would bring up their hockey team a little more often. I mean, I'm pretty sure that not many people are familiar with it, the only time it is brought up is when you are within 50 miles of a UND fan. Seriously STOP TALKING ABOUT HOCKEY. Heres some questions about your hockey team for the future: 1. What does having your primary sport of hockey during the same season as basketball say to a basketball conference? Do you think they will assume you are committed to basketball success, or.... maybe you won't give a !@$! about anything besides hockey and football, and not want to admit you? 2. If it came down to a big conference basketball game in the ralph, against say, NDSU or SDSU, or a hockey game, which would get the ralph? 3. Is any conference you enter going to be expected to schedule around the hockey schedule of UND, as the NCC tried to accomodate hockey schools? 4. How will basketball attendance be if hockey matches are regularly scheduled at the same time? Will conference game have to be earlier or later to accomodate hockey? 5. How will opposing basketball coaches in D-I use the hockey issue against UND when talking to recruits. Will they tell the recruits that its a positive thing for UND. Or maybe they'll tell them "Don't go to UND because nobody gives a !@$! about mens basketball. They only care about hockey. Your precious hockey program is going to be a liability to you for joining a conference. UMKC could care less about beating Wisconsin in hockey, and I would be willing to bet that only about 5% of the current midcon fan base even knows that UND has a good hockey team. They care about mens basketball. UND is going to have a tough time building a decent mens basketball program with a hockey program going at the same time. Sounds like someone I want in my conference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 And please don't tell me about the "name recognition". UND has no name recognition below SD, and if they do its for hockey. Hockey doesn't help a basketball school or conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 And please don't tell me about the "name recognition". UND has no name recognition below SD, and if they do its for hockey. Hockey doesn't help a basketball school or conference. I don't know they'll probably just tell the athletes the same thing that sdsu will be able to tell their players regarding their current success at the D-I level. Oh wait I guess that wouldn't be the best recruiting pitch. UND will be no worse off than either of the SU's when it comes to basketball recruiting. We've already go the best facility (the Ralph) and scheduling games around hockey won't be that big of a problem considering how other schools (Wisconsin) seem to be able to manage it. Plus, UND is probably most likely looking at either the Mid- Con or the Big Sky conference for basketball membership and most of the members in those conferences don't have exactly overwhelming facilities or attendance for their basketball programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 I would like to express my thanks to DI IN FARGO and aff for voicing their concerns about UND's finances. It shows me that they have quite an interest in the well-being of the institutions of higher education in throughout our region, as well they should. I am sure that if I went to the Gophers' message board I would find both of them posting about U of M's bloated athletic budget & their deficit. University of Minnesota Revenue: $51,721,017 Expense: $52,316,266 I'll bet that aff in particular has several threads on the bunny-board devoted to SDSU's economic conditions. South Dakota State University Revenue: $6,280,833 Expense: $6,547,381 NDSU, of course, had that last minute miracle donor. North Dakota State University Revenue: $7,668,848 Expense: $7,668,848 And then there is UND with that money-sucking hockey program. University of North Dakota Revenue: $10,021,643 Expense: $9,958,728 And I'm sure the both of them are constantly on the Coyote board because everyone knows that USD loses money so fast that it'll make your head spin. University of South Dakota Revenue: $4,311,013 Expense: $4,265,076 Thank you to all the fans of other schools that have expressed your concerns for the financial well-being of all the Universities in the Upper Midwest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Our strongest asset when it comes to MBB is Tim Miles. I don't know why you boast about the Ralph, how many men's games are going to be played there? A couple? Or are you going to have your men play in an empty Tah Mahal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Sounds like someone I want in my conference! Do you have a conference?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I would like to express my thanks to DI IN FARGO and aff for voicing their concerns about UND's finances. It shows me that they have quite an interest in the well-being of the institutions of higher education in throughout our region, as well they should. I am sure that if I went to the Gophers' message board I would find both of them posting about U of M's bloated athletic budget & their deficit. ............................ Yes UND has a bigger budget currently (unless you believe the task force report which stated that roughly three million of that was in one-time expenses). NDSU has proven that it can fund its own scholarships AND proceed with facility improvements and put decent teams into action as a mid-major DI. UND has not shown that. They were projected to have a $700,000 budget deficit the past year, with 10% cuts across all sports plus the loss of 5 position in the athletic department WITH tuition waivers and repeated comments that the Fighting Sioux club is tapped out AND they were in DII. UND was/is basically in the same position as UNO today except they have gotten no press (however, it's also no secret just check the past minutes from the IAC). And don't forget that the Ralph didn't cover its operating expenses in '04-'05 (even when accounting for over a million dollars in additional gifts) and lost $5 million from depreciation. Iowa Bison's Cash Flow Sheet (REA needs another half million a year in revenue to cover operating-we'll consider that separate) Women's hockey is half million a year short Football needs a half million a year for scholarships Another half million for Title IX Half a million for additional travel Half a million to hire all the people back Half a million to hire the extra people a DI mid-major should have A million to put things over the top A quarter of a million in revenue for hockey Half a million for 2 guarantee games after you start averaging 63 scholies and become a 'counter' So UND's 3-4 million short by my calculations. Not far off the what NDSU has/will be paying 2.5 to 3 million plus the unique expenses. Can UND do it? Before Kupchella's announcement, I would have said no. But he made the move, not with great enthusiasm, so we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBison Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Just cut athletic positions to balance the budget and now their ready for D-I? This is a ploy by their president to shut the boosters up. Hmmmmmmm................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Funny how a UND sports board can bring so many together. Wouldn't you agree iowa bison, d1 in fargo and aff? aff, You wouldn't want a D1 hockey program to play a school like Michigan or a Maine in your home state? d1 in fargo, I think your caps lock is broken. It really kills you that UND is doing well and so is the Greater Grand Forks area. C'mon...I won't tell anyone really I won't. i-bison, We shouldn't boast about the best hockey arena in college sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aff Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Funny how a UND sports board can bring so many together. Wouldn't you agree iowa bison, d1 in fargo and aff? aff, You wouldn't want a D1 hockey program to play a school like Michigan or a Maine in your home state? d1 in fargo, I think your caps lock is broken. It really kills you that UND is doing well and so is the Greater Grand Forks area. C'mon...I won't tell anyone really I won't. i-bison, We shouldn't boast about the best hockey arena in college sports? SDSU had a baseball game against the gophers in Sioux Falls. NDSU beat the gophers and badgers in softball. Nationally there isn't too much of a difference in those in my opinion. If you go south, baseball is much more important than hockey is, but their both relatively minor compared to basketball and football in college sports in the country. I don't really see the difference between any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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